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Criticism with Positive Ideas? Madness.


Cranberries

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Forget the New Year, I've already rang in the New Year with my boyfriend. Now, while he is content I am going to write up a very long winded post how Bioware can make the game, specifically the end game, a lot better. Before I go on note the following: I actually like the aims of Bioware to promote a story in an MMO, it is a 'new' concept. Neither WoW, anymore as they removed class quests, or any other title really has a large focus on a story while levelling. However, a story alone is not enough to garner appropiate subscriptions and keep a game alive.

 

With that said - these are my credentals, and why I believe I have a voice that should be listened to:

- Valor rank 57

- Cleared 4/5 EV on Hardmode

- Cleared 5/5 EV on Normal Mode

- Involved in the world first kill of Bonethrasher on Nightmare difficulty. Currently the only BH in the world with this item

- Cleared every Hardmode Flashpoint (except The Foundry as ... well it's bugged).

 

I do not care about small bugs that stop some level 23 Sith Marauder from jumping from 1 hill to another, that's irrelevant. MMOs are about the end game content. If you disagree you should play a single player game because MMOs do not survive unless end game content is both a product of quality and quantity.

 

The UI

This is a subject beaten to death, so I will simply say it needs to be modified. For end game raiding, at the highest level, there are too many interferences with the UI. I play a DPS BH in 8 man operations and will be healing in 16 man operations and so for me, as a healer, a UI is the staple I need to do my job to the best of my ability. I am 100% confident with the current UI I can do my job well, however with a UI I can customise and make "my own" I will be able to play a lot better, and surely that's a good thing? When raiding the hardest content available, it is annoying to simply face the fact that often fighting the intolerable UI is harder, as it cannot be changed, than fighting the bosses mechanics. The changes I propose are:

 

- Make party frames the CURRENT Operation frames and add companions into them, party bars will then look very nice and not need to be tampered with as the current party bars make for horrible healing. Even when healing on level 30 Sith Inquisitor, I use Operation frames when doing content with 2 companions because the party frames aren't good enough for the job.

- Make raid frames a complete carbon copy of Grid. Grid works. It just does, Grid works because raid frames are needed for healers, and that is all. In this game, at the top tier of raiding, there is no need for a DPSer to have operation frames anywhere in view or even look at them and the same can be said for tanks. Thus, make raid frames in the style of Grid to suit the need of the healers who actually need them. Rift uses a Grid style raid frame setup and it works well.

- After doing the aforementioned, give the ability to show debuffs (important ones, with the ability to add/remove debuffs) as a centre icon (again, like Grid). It will make it easier to dispell harmful effects and ultimately make healing more enjoyable as it will have more fluidity.

 

The Combat

For this I will simply link you to read this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=105955 because it simply states what I would only want to state. I will add though that this hinders the game so much, if I'm DPSing after I get 5 armour debuffs (from 3 Tracer Missiles) onto the boss I immediately like to use my trinket + adrenal and continue blowing up the boss. With the current system, however, I have to wait a good 1-2 seconds to use both items and it makes the game far less enjoyable and gives it less fluidity.

 

Crew Skills

Crafting, the way it is implemented, is fine. Infact it's more than fine in my opinion. I love the fact I can effectively level my crew skills while PvPing, or while doing Operations or even Hardmode Flashpoints. I think Bioware implemented crew skills in the right manner because they were outstandingly, however there is a big issue with them. If you are a hardcore raider, or PvPer, you will be using Biochem as your crafting profession. You will not use anything else. If you aren't a hardcore raider, you will be using Biochem if you want usefulness. The reason is simple: the Rakata Stims, Adrenals and the Medpack are simply ridiculous in comparison with what other crew skills recieve for hitting 400. It feels as if Biochem (and Slicing I guess) is/are the only complete crew skill(s). Why will you be using Biochem above all else? While it is true you can get amazing schematics for Cybertech, the ones you need (level 56/level 58 mods/armouring) only drop from hardmode/nightmare mode operations and what is worse, because you'll be using your tier set you can't modify the armour slot, only the mod slot. Your profession is effectively halved. Not to mention, if you don't choose Biochem and you raid, you wont be as effective as you can be and in a hardcore raiding guild every advantage is everything. You stack EVERYTHING in your favour to be world first.

 

Ilum's PvP

Currently there is no reason to PvP on Ilum. None. You gain no benefit. I killed a player in Ilum the other day and recieved nothing. Not one thing. If you want Ilum to be a hub of PvP activity such as Wintergrasp or Tol Barad rewards need to be implemented. Maybe they will come, maybe they will not. However, for it to be beneficial I suggest adding just 1 thing per kill: for every kill give a player 1 Mercenary Commendation, 1 Warzone Commendation and 1 random: Centurion or Champion Commendation. This will make killing worthwhile, and overall increase the fun of the zone as more people hit level 50.

 

Introductory Raiding: Normal Mode Content

For this, when Combat Logs make their way in (I'm not debating this as it's been beaten to death and rather pointless because they are coming), I suggest every normal mode boss having a handful of mechanics. So if we use EV as a current example: the first boss does 3 mechanics: channelled AoE that you need to LoS, and a circle missile that you need to move out of or die. He also does an ability that requires the melee and tank to play smartly. This is good, how it should be. If every boss was like this in EV then it would be effective introductory raid content, however the third boss and fourth boss are ... for the most part ... complete jokes and I'm not sure what Bioware's thinking was behind them, personally. They just feel either bugged, incomplete or ... well that's it really.

 

Hardmode Content

Currently Hardmode content is simply boss does the exact same stuff with +%s to damage and damage. This is not fun as it's mostly a gear check. A boss should differ in hardmode compared to normal mode. The first boss, using the same example, could be far more enjoyable if perhaps during the boss' channelled AoE one of the two turrets you previously destroyed was repaired and had to be DPSd down during it save your raid being blown to bits by a turret and a boss. Gharj, for example, on hardmode difficulty could do something where he engulfs the area of land he pounds on in lava thereby limiting the amount of space you have - a mediocre, as it's hardmode, soft enrage. Sadly I cannot mention Nightmare mode content as I have only done Bonethrasher and according to 1.0.2 Nightmare mode 'strictly' isn't working correctly.

 

Hardmode Flashpoints

I struggle to see the point of Hardmode Flashpoints. Are they for a challenge? I'm not sure. They reward Columi (t2) items and a myriad of Tionese (t1) level epics however EV on normal mode (which is easier) offer the exact same rewards. I'm not sure what the point is other than bragging rights: "I've done Bulwark on Hardmode difficulty, thus I am better than you." It would also help, I guess, if the content was beyond belief bugged... Every Hardmode Flashpoint has some bug issues, as if they weren't tested at all. I hope when people hit level 50 they are fixed but given Patch 1.0.2's complete disregard of them, I doubt they will. Regardless they are pointless other than to complete the daily and weekly as these quests offer both credits, necessary for repair bills, and Columi Commendations. Due to this, as well, players can simply complete Black Talon or Battle of Ilum on Hardmode as these are by far the easiest and, arguably, fastest to complete.

 

PvP

PvP is fun but it *lacks* smoothness. I feel healers are completely worthless in PvP other than Sages and Sorcerers primarily because their absorption shield isn't reduced by the -30% healing debuff players get upon entering combat. I do believe some classes are more powerful than others, but that is normal for any MMO. MMOs will always have imbalances, and as long as both sides get the imbalances I guess it doesn't matter much - especially as there is no competitive PvP in SWTOR. I think that the plethora of crowd controls, slows, roots and knockbacks make PvP a complete farce, personally. They are not fun. Losing control of your character, with the slow activation time of the PvP trinket (referring to every classes level 9 spell) it feels you spend a lot more of your time in forms of CC rather than out of CC, and that's not good design.

 

Thank you for reading. I am going to end by saying - I do not care this game is "STAR WARS" - this game coUld be called "TERESA GREEN" and I'd have the exact same problems. Having the title "STAR WARS" should not excuse a game from near perfection. It should not excuse glaring issues. Neither should the fact "THE GAME IS NEW" excuse it from basic MMO practice. If we take the release of Rift: this game had everything I have said here, and it still failed. Think about this for a second: I am criticising a game for not having basic features that another MMO launched with and is now considered a failure. I would really wish people could see the imperfections of the game and the places where it falls short, drastically. This game has unique potential because of it's title but it's title will not sustain the game. It cannot; people will get bored of Star Wars eventually, and people will want a quality MMO with a large quantity of content.

Edited by Cranberries
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You may have fantastic points that are spot on and full of relevant constructive logic. However let me be the first to say that I got to this point

With that said - these are my credentals, and why I believe I have a voice that should be listened to:

 

and could care less what you had to say after that. Try removing it and maybe you wont be treated like a self centered pre-modonna brat.

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Another complain wall of text thread. I don't think that the people who are enjoying the game are still reading this kind of posts...

 

And to be honest, I didn't read it at all, it's just that you bumped your own thread and I wanted to give you a possible explanation of why you had no reply.

 

And this is for all complainers: give it a break already. We, players who are enjoying the game, don't care anymore about you.

 

Now let's get back to the new year preparations... (Thisis why I'm not playing right now)

Edited by Payvay
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I feel really annoyed.

 

I make a post that lists basic, legitimate criticisms with a game I want to succeed, and I give solutions to them and I ... get overran by a herd of fanboys under the pipe of the Pied Piper of Hamelin...

 

Great community, even WoW's is better.

Edited by Cranberries
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I feel really annoyed.

 

I make a post that lists basic, legitimate criticisms with a game I want to succeed, and I give solutions to them and I ... get overran by a herd of fanboys under the pipe of the Pied Piper of Hamelin...

 

Great community, even WoW's is better.

 

 

Welcome to a Bioware forum.

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Talking about your 'credentials' makes it look like you're going to use the logical fallacy known as 'argument from authority', which is to say you're going to insist you're right simply because your 'credentials' make your arguments automatically better than anyone who disagrees. However, good arguments actually stand on their own merits, and don't need 'credentials' to back them up. Your arguments do stand, so you doing this actually detracts from them. Edited by Zmidponk
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You can't talk about something you haven't experienced.

 

I've experienced a lot of PvP in SWTOR, and I've experienced the cutting edge of raiding in SWTOR. Most people have not. I'm labelling the problems, and methods of resolution. Do you think I have less credibility than some level 10 who says "raiding is hard"? :/

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SWTOR community is composed of mainly carebears..ironically, who hate competitive PvE AND competitive PvP.

 

My suggestion: do what I am about to do very soon: go back to World of Warcraft.

 

Yea you do that because their community and pvp is so much better. I'm a 1 time gladiator and got viscious glad on my shaman and relentless glad on my other shaman. Let me tell you that **** is broken beyond all repair. This game just came out, had one of the smoothest launches and the pvp is ok. Give them time. So sick of people crying it's unreal.

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You can't talk about something you haven't experienced.

 

I've experienced a lot of PvP in SWTOR, and I've experienced the cutting edge of raiding in SWTOR. Most people have not. I'm labelling the problems, and methods of resolution. Do you think I have less credibility than some level 10 who says "raiding is hard"? :/

 

Why is credibility even an issue? Just make your points and if the devs agree they'll look into it.

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Why is credibility even an issue? Just make your points and if the devs agree they'll look into it.

 

These are things that should've been done prior to launch, but they haven't so it is up to the cutting edge players to make the game better - like they do in WoW. The cutting edge players, Paragon et al, make raiding content better through extensive testing and giving Blizzard ideas.

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Forget the New Year, I've already rang in the New Year with my boyfriend. Now, while he is contempt I am going to write up a very long winded post how Bioware can make the game, specifically the end game, a lot better. Before I go on note the following: I actually like the aims of Bioware to promote a story in an MMO, it is a 'new' concept. Neither WoW, anymore as they removed class quests, or any other title really has a large focus on a story while levelling. However, a story alone is not enough to garner appropiate subscriptions and keep a game alive.

 

With that said - these are my credentals, and why I believe I have a voice that should be listened to:

- Valor rank 57

- Cleared 4/5 EV on Hardmode

- Cleared 5/5 EV on Normal Mode

- Involved in the world first kill of Bonethrasher on Nightmare difficulty. Currently the only BH in the world with this item

- Cleared every Hardmode Flashpoint (except The Foundry as ... well it's bugged).

 

I do not care about small bugs that stop some level 23 Sith Marauder from jumping from 1 hill to another, that's irrelevant. MMOs are about the end game content. If you disagree you should play a single player game because MMOs do not survive unless end game content is both a product of quality and quantity.

 

The UI

This is a subject beaten to death, so I will simply say it needs to be modified. For end game raiding, at the highest level, there are too many interferences with the UI. I play a DPS BH in 8 man operations and will be healing in 16 man operations and so for me, as a healer, a UI is the staple I need to do my job to the best of my ability. I am 100% confident with the current UI I can do my job well, however with a UI I can customise and make "my own" I will be able to play a lot better, and surely that's a good thing? When raiding the hardest content available, it is annoying to simply face the fact that often fighting the intolerable UI is harder, as it cannot be changed, than fighting the bosses mechanics. The changes I propose are:

 

- Make party frames the CURRENT Operation frames and add companions into them, party bars will then look very nice and not need to be tampered with as the current party bars make for horrible healing. Even when healing on level 30 Sith Inquisitor, I use Operation frames when doing content with 2 companions because the party frames aren't good enough for the job.

- Make raid frames a complete carbon copy of Grid. Grid works. It just does, Grid works because raid frames are needed for healers, and that is all. In this game, at the top tier of raiding, there is no need for a DPSer to have operation frames anywhere in view or even look at them and the same can be said for tanks. Thus, make raid frames in the style of Grid to suit the need of the healers who actually need them. Rift uses a Grid style raid frame setup and it works well.

- After doing the aforementioned, give the ability to show debuffs (important ones, with the ability to add/remove debuffs) as a centre icon (again, like Grid). It will make it easier to dispell harmful effects and ultimately make healing more enjoyable as it will have more fluidity.

 

The Combat

For this I will simply link you to read this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=105955 because it simply states what I would only want to state. I will add though that this hinders the game so much, if I'm DPSing after I get 5 armour debuffs (from 3 Tracer Missiles) onto the boss I immediately like to use my trinket + adrenal and continue blowing up the boss. With the current system, however, I have to wait a good 1-2 seconds to use both items and it makes the game far less enjoyable and gives it less fluidity.

 

Crew Skills

Crafting, the way it is implemented, is fine. Infact it's more than fine in my opinion. I love the fact I can effectively level my crew skills while PvPing, or while doing Operations or even Hardmode Flashpoints. I think Bioware implemented crew skills in the right manner because they were outstandingly, however there is a big issue with them. If you are a hardcore raider, or PvPer, you will be using Biochem as your crafting profession. You will not use anything else. If you aren't a hardcore raider, you will be using Biochem if you want usefulness. The reason is simple: the Rakata Stims, Adrenals and the Medpack are simply ridiculous in comparison with what other crew skills recieve for hitting 400. It feels as if Biochem (and Slicing I guess) is/are the only complete crew skill(s). Why will you be using Biochem above all else? While it is true you can get amazing schematics for Cybertech, the ones you need (level 56/level 58 mods/armouring) only drop from hardmode/nightmare mode operations and what is worse, because you'll be using your tier set you can't modify the armour slot, only the mod slot. Your profession is effectively halved. Not to mention, if you don't choose Biochem and you raid, you wont be as effective as you can be and in a hardcore raiding guild every advantage is everything. You stack EVERYTHING in your favour to be world first.

 

Ilum's PvP

Currently there is no reason to PvP on Ilum. None. You gain no benefit. I killed a player in Ilum the other day and recieved nothing. Not one thing. If you want Ilum to be a hub of PvP activity such as Wintergrasp or Tol Barad rewards need to be implemented. Maybe they will come, maybe they will not. However, for it to be beneficial I suggest adding just 1 thing per kill: for every kill give a player 1 Mercenary Commendation, 1 Warzone Commendation and 1 random: Centurion or Champion Commendation. This will make killing worthwhile, and overall increase the fun of the zone as more people hit level 50.

 

Introductory Raiding: Normal Mode Content

For this, when Combat Logs make their way in (I'm not debating this as it's been beaten to death and rather pointless because they are coming), I suggest every normal mode boss having a handful of mechanics. So if we use EV as a current example: the first boss does 3 mechanics: channelled AoE that you need to LoS, and a circle missile that you need to move out of or die. He also does an ability that requires the melee and tank to play smartly. This is good, how it should be. If every boss was like this in EV then it would be effective introductory raid content, however the third boss and fourth boss are ... for the most part ... complete jokes and I'm not sure what Bioware's thinking was behind them, personally. They just feel either bugged, incomplete or ... well that's it really.

 

Hardmode Content

Currently Hardmode content is simply boss does the exact same stuff with +%s to damage and damage. This is not fun as it's mostly a gear check. A boss should differ in hardmode compared to normal mode. The first boss, using the same example, could be far more enjoyable if perhaps during the boss' channelled AoE one of the two turrets you previously destroyed was repaired and had to be DPSd down during it save your raid being blown to bits by a turret and a boss. Gharj, for example, on hardmode difficulty could do something where he engulfs the area of land he pounds on in lava thereby limiting the amount of space you have - a mediocre, as it's hardmode, soft enrage. Sadly I cannot mention Nightmare mode content as I have only done Bonethrasher and according to 1.0.2 Nightmare mode 'strictly' isn't working correctly.

Hardmode Flashpoints

I struggle to see the point of Hardmode Flashpoints. Are they for a challenge? I'm not sure. They reward Columi (t2) items and a myriad of Tionese (t1) level epics however EV on normal mode (which is easier) offer the exact same rewards. I'm not sure what the point is other than bragging rights: "I've done Bulwark on Hardmode difficulty, thus I am better than you." It would also help, I guess, if the content was beyond belief bugged... Every Hardmode Flashpoint has some bug issues, as if they weren't tested at all. I hope when people hit level 50 they are fixed but given Patch 1.0.2's complete disregard of them, I doubt they will. Regardless they are pointless other than to complete the daily and weekly as these quests offer both credits, necessary for repair bills, and Columi Commendations. Due to this, as well, players can simply complete Black Talon or Battle of Ilum on Hardmode as these are by far the easiest and, arguably, fastest to complete.

 

PvP

PvP is fun but it *lacks* smoothness. I feel healers are completely worthless in PvP other than Sages and Sorcerers primarily because their absorption shield isn't reduced by the -30% healing debuff players get upon entering combat. I do believe some classes are more powerful than others, but that is normal for any MMO. MMOs will always have imbalances, and as long as both sides get the imbalances I guess it doesn't matter much - especially as there is no competitive PvP in SWTOR. I think that the plethora of crowd controls, slows, roots and knockbacks make PvP a complete farce, personally. They are not fun. Losing control of your character, with the slow activation time of the PvP trinket (referring to every classes level 9 spell) it feels you spend a lot more of your time in forms of CC rather than out of CC, and that's not good design.

 

Thank you for reading. I am going to end by saying - I do not care this game is "STAR WARS" - this game coUld be called "TERESA GREEN" and I'd have the exact same problems. Having the title "STAR WARS" should not excuse a game from near perfection. It should not excuse glaring issues. Neither should the fact "THE GAME IS NEW" excuse it from basic MMO practice. If we take the release of Rift: this game had everything I have said here, and it still failed. Think about this for a second: I am criticising a game for not having basic features that another MMO launched with and is now considered a failure. I would really wish people could see the imperfections of the game and the places where it falls short, drastically. This game has unique potential because of it's title but it's title will not sustain the game. It cannot; people will get bored of Star Wars eventually, and people will want a quality MMO with a large quantity of content.

 

It's amazing to me, that you have a well thought out constructive post and even post why your thoughts on the issue prove you're not a troll; and yet the defense force passes this off as you tooting your own horn. So if you wrote all of that with out your credentials they would call you a troll/flamer. If you do your a per-madonna/self-centered.

 

I swear to god this community is the worse I've ever seen!

Edited by Zilrota
removed "retard" from quote
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You can't talk about something you haven't experienced.

 

I've experienced a lot of PvP in SWTOR, and I've experienced the cutting edge of raiding in SWTOR. Most people have not.

 

And? If you make invalid and/or bad points (which you haven't), it doesn't matter if you know everything there is to know about SWTOR because it was you, personally, who coded the entire thing from the ground up. Conversely, if you make valid, good points, it doesn't matter if your entire experience with SWTOR is playing it once for a grand total of 10 minutes. You listing off your 'credentials' in that manner actually detracts from your post because it makes it look like your 'credentials' are more important to you than the points you're actually raising.

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And? If you make invalid and/or bad points (which you haven't), it doesn't matter if you know everything there is to know about SWTOR because it was you, personally, who coded the entire thing from the ground up. Conversely, if you make valid, good points, it doesn't matter if your entire experience with SWTOR is playing it once for a grand total of 10 minutes. You listing off your 'credentials' in that manner actually detracts from your post because it makes it look like your 'credentials' are more important to you than the points you're actually raising.

 

I'm willing to bet it didn't matter. Had I just posted the argument they would've said:

 

"You hit 50 too fast"

"You're just hating"

"You're the 0.1% and unimportant"

 

You see my point? This community is also an issue. A big one. People can't make constructive posts without being massacred by the sheeps of Bioware's Pied Piper.

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I feel really annoyed.

 

I make a post that lists basic, legitimate criticisms with a game I want to succeed, and I give solutions to them and I ... get overran by a herd of fanboys under the pipe of the Pied Piper of Hamelin...

 

Great community, even WoW's is better.

 

Somethings I can agree, and others I can't comment on because I'm not there yet. But the other people are right. Theirs no reason to put on your "credentials". Even if you don't mean it, it just makes you look like your trying to "show off" more then anything.

 

Seriously, just remove that small little thing and you will get A LOT more respect. And, unlike others, your able to post with out relying on petty insults like "fanboy" and avoid continuously spouting baseless "prophecys" on how this game will "fail". And for that, I honestly thank you.

Edited by flunkorg
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Talking about your 'credentials' makes it look like you're going to use the logical fallacy known as 'argument from authority', which is to say you're going to insist you're right simply because your 'credentials' make your arguments automatically better than anyone who disagrees. However, good arguments actually stand on their own merits, and don't need 'credentials' to back them up. Your arguments do stand, so you doing this actually detracts from them.

 

Right but you forgot-

 

The strength of this argument depends upon two factors:

 

1. The authority is a legitimate expert on the subject.

2. A consensus exists among legitimate experts on the matter under discussion.

 

I'm seeing both in these forums about this subject. But I'm guessing you're going to say that those whom claim this are the vocal minority and pass it off as nothing anyway, all the while flaunting your out opinion.

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You can't talk about something you haven't experienced.

 

I've experienced a lot of PvP in SWTOR, and I've experienced the cutting edge of raiding in SWTOR. Most people have not. I'm labelling the problems, and methods of resolution. Do you think I have less credibility than some level 10 who says "raiding is hard"? :/

 

You didnt bring up how you had experienced this that and the other. You went on and on about your great accomplishments. Thats why you recieved the responses that you did.

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The only issue with the OPs addition of credentials is this

 

 

 

- Involved in the world first kill of Bonethrasher on Nightmare difficulty. Currently the only BH in the world with this item

 

That is a little on the "tooting my own horn" side of things, the rest is fine and without them there is no reason to even pay attention to the post.

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These are things that should've been done prior to launch, but they haven't so it is up to the cutting edge players to make the game better - like they do in WoW. The cutting edge players, Paragon et al, make raiding content better through extensive testing and giving Blizzard ideas.

 

Like they do in WoW? ok. I think the general consensus from that community is "The lesser players have been making the game worse/easier". Also the last time I checked those "cutting-edge" players were just exploiting despite their most valiant effort at "helping blizzard make their game better".

 

If you look around you'll find the points you listed have already been brought up anyways. Along with your title it most certainly does seem that you think you're the only person who plays this game and has valid criticism. I would be annoyed by these responses as well if I were you.

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