Guilds should be allowed to have all classes in them. We already got cross-faction teams in WZs... plus from a realistic standpoint it makes sense.

I mean why can a trooper not work for the empire? Why could a sith not work with the Republic? Why are our characters forced to stay on one side or the other? It doesn't make any sense.

They could have group finder allow all classes to do FPs and Ops together, too, plus there would be a lot more options available for RPers to explore if guilds allowed all classes into them and all classes could group.

No, actually, it makes NO sense.

Why not? If all classes are cross-factioned in WZs, how does it not make sense to allow for them to guild or group regularly?

SWTOR clearly embraces both sides fraternizing with one another now, will all the collaborations together "imps" and "pubs" fighting a common enemy (Zakuul.) Just because the enemy was defeated doesn't eliminate all the relationships created between both sides during that event.

Instead of having this weird cross-factioning in WZs with it not mirroring the rest of the in game activities, seems to me to make it sensible the only thing to do is to remove class restrictions so players can choose any class/race for either imp or pub side.

It's just logical to do this anyway... The world isn't black and white, good or bad, imp or pub... There's always factions that work between the lines, there's always grey areas when it comes to one side or another.

Why not?

Why not? Because it's Star Wars, that's why not. The Jedi's main goal is to rid the galaxy of the dark side and therefore, the Sith. The Sith think the Jedi are weak and should all die or come to the dark side.

I realize that from a game-play point of view, it may not matter, but from a lore and RP point of view, it would make no sense.

Yes, the two sides did have a truce during the recent chapters, but people have been clamouring to get back to Republic vs Empire for some time now.

Why not? Because it's Star Wars, that's why not. The Jedi's main goal is to rid the galaxy of the dark side and therefore, the Sith. The Sith think the Jedi are weak and should all die or come to the dark side.

 

I realize that from a game-play point of view, it may not matter, but from a lore and RP point of view, it would make no sense.

 

Yes, the two sides did have a truce during the recent chapters, but people have been clamouring to get back to Republic vs Empire for some time now.

I see. I just think this is an outdated way to view the Star Wars universe. Things are never so simple as good or bad, black or white, sith and jedi. There's always gray areas and people/beings that cross factions to the other side.

You can still have people/beings that are one side or the other, I am just saying they ought to open up the SWTOR universe so that there's a place for those who rather switch sides or play both sides.

We were able to do this in SWG and group up and do activities together minus pvp and specific missions that were faction specific. I do not have a problem with this considering I came from a game that had it and it was actually fun that way. You didn't have to have two guilds if you didn't want to.

It's only logical tbh. Would add a new wrinkle to the game and add a big fun element to it, too. I never played SWG, so i didn't know they did that.

No. Just no. The whole point is what JediQuaker stated. Pub vs Imp.

It's bad enough we do this in WZ now. NOT everything else.

/notsigned

It's only logical tbh. Would add a new wrinkle to the game and add a big fun element to it, too. I never played SWG, so i didn't know they did that.

Yea we did. I would like this and for those that don't want to add the opposite faction then they can just continue to play that way. We had some even in SWG that wouldn't mix Rebels with Imperials but you could do it if you wanted. I don't see a problem for those that would like this. You could have those that wanted separate factions remain that way and those that wanted to mix faction they could do that as well. More options is always a good choice.

No. Just no. The whole point is what JediQuaker stated. Pub vs Imp.

It's bad enough we do this in WZ now. NOT everything else.

 

/notsigned

Sajar (formerly Darth Sajar of the Dark Council), Praven (formerly Lord Praven and servant of Darth Angral), Darth Karrid (formerly Kana Tarrid and apprentice to Master Gnost-Dural). These are but a few of the numerous examples of people switching sides. The whole, "it's Pub vs Imp and that's how it has to stay," is a very narrow argument.

Sajar (formerly Darth Sajar of the Dark Council), Praven (formerly Lord Praven and servant of Darth Angral), Darth Karrid (formerly Kana Tarrid and apprentice to Master Gnost-Dural). These are but a few of the numerous examples of people switching sides. The whole, "it's Pub vs Imp and that's how it has to stay," is a very narrow argument.

Also, many people (myself included) are running Sith (though I haven’t considered my character Sith since the start of Fallen Empire and currently play like a Jedi who can throw lightning and has a more interesting voice actress) who is currently working with the Republic against the Sith Empire (and if I ever have to rejoin the Sith Empire for real because they can’t make faction swapping work I’ll just stop playing them). I know others who are Troopers or Jedi who have decided to work for the Sith Empire so it goes both ways.

I can agree Pub vs. Empire is what they’re trying to get back to, but the actual PCs in this are technically still Commander of the Alliance and allied with one of the factions that may not be the one they started in and which employs ex-members of both factions (particularly post-Ossus, anyone still there WANTS to be there and not wjere they were).

So why not allow “Alliance” guilds that can have members from both factions? That also fits the current lore.

I see. I just think this is an outdated way to view the Star Wars universe. Things are never so simple as good or bad, black or white, sith and jedi. There's always gray areas and people/beings that cross factions to the other side.

 

You can still have people/beings that are one side or the other, I am just saying they ought to open up the SWTOR universe so that there's a place for those who rather switch sides or play both sides.

Well considering that the Star Wars Universe is "A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away" and that SWToR is 3500 years in the past before Star Wars a New Hope. Everything is Out of Dated. BUT! It is Star Wars LORE. The Story of Star Wars and the World they Lived in.

Things are never so simple as good or bad, black or white, sith and jedi. There's always gray areas and people/beings that cross factions to the other side.

In Star Wars it was ONLY Black and White. There was No Grey, No Middle Ground.

You can still have people/beings that are one side or the other, I am just saying they ought to open up the SWTOR universe so that there's a place for those who rather switch sides or play both sides.

Please try to remember this is Star Wars, A Fantasy Universe that has NOTHING to do with the REAL world. Your logic does not apply here.

No Changes please there already have been enough changes to the LORE of Star Wars in SWToR. NO MORE....

Sajar (formerly Darth Sajar of the Dark Council), Praven (formerly Lord Praven and servant of Darth Angral), Darth Karrid (formerly Kana Tarrid and apprentice to Master Gnost-Dural). These are but a few of the numerous examples of people switching sides. The whole, "it's Pub vs Imp and that's how it has to stay," is a very narrow argument.

It sounds like you're advocating more for switching factions than cross-faction play. All of those people you mentioned switched factions and would not likely willingly work with their former faction (unless forced to and maybe not even then). What the OP is suggesting is not "switching sides" but simply being able to group/guild with the other side. From a gameplay point of view ... I don't see why not. From a lore/in-universe point of view I can't really agree.

In SoR, the Republic and Empire only peripherally joining forces against the Revanites (and even then it was barely sanctioned). In KotFE/KotET it was individuals from each side joining together in the Alliance and once the threat was over, many went back to their former faction. Others remained, believing more in the Alliance and the Commander than their former governments. This is one of the reasons I wanted the Alliance to remain a third, neutral faction but eh, oh well.

It depends really on if the Devs are willing to overlook the RP aspect in favor of the gameplay aspect. They did with warzones so it's possible they would so with PvE.

Sajar (formerly Darth Sajar of the Dark Council), Praven (formerly Lord Praven and servant of Darth Angral), Darth Karrid (formerly Kana Tarrid and apprentice to Master Gnost-Dural). These are but a few of the numerous examples of people switching sides. The whole, "it's Pub vs Imp and that's how it has to stay," is a very narrow argument.

Right here is just a small sample of characters who switched sides. The only way to switch sides is for the option to be available... Also as you say, what kind of argument is "nuh uh it's imp vs. pub side always!!!!"

So why not allow “Alliance” guilds that can have members from both factions? That also fits the current lore.

Exactly. Also, as noted earlier in thread players could choose not to mix with one faction or another, by allowing people the option though would open up realistic choices that could be played for RP purposes, too.

Players ought to now have the option of playing within the actual lore that is up to date now, that being allied forces from both imp and pub side in guilds as well as groups for PVE activities.

No, actually, it makes NO sense.

For the longest time in Everquest 2, that was the case as well, but people were not wanting to run two guilds for two different factions for the same set of players. Unlike SWTOR, EQ2 changed so that toons originating from either Qeynos and Freeport (or other associated cities which reflect good/evil origin) can be in the same guild and group together.

Later, Daybreak Games (who now owns the Everquest X franchise) relaxed the rules even further to make it easier for toons to walk into guild halls located in opposite-faction cities.

The only barrier for SWTOR evolving this way is the player base. You wouldn't need an expansion to do it, either, the programming to do it wouldn't amount to more than a minor point release (6.0.1) but you won't see it.

But I've said many times it would nice not to have to create, host, and maintain two guilds in SWTOR for essentially the same player base. One's enough for EQ2 for all factions, it could happen here too, if they were willing.

For the longest time in Everquest 2, that was the case as well, but people were not wanting to run two guilds for two different factions for the same set of players. Unlike SWTOR, EQ2 changed so that toons originating from either Qeynos and Freeport (or other associated cities which reflect good/evil origin) can be in the same guild and group together.

EQ2 had an awesome system setup for players to take a class and betray their city turning into the opposite side's sub class.

For instance a ranger of Qeynos (scout class) could go into the sewers of their home city, and do a lengthy and hard quest series that would eventually land the ranger in Freeport completing a quest that turned them into an Assassin (Freeport scout class) as well as no longer being KOS to Freeport. The cost was no longer being the one class and losing faction with the city you left.

This was really fun, I witched teams to move races of a class that normally couldn't be a class to the other city to make them a class just for the sake of having a rare rac/class combination.

Something like this would be awesome on SWTOR... Imagine having the option to switch from Republic as a trooper, turning into an evil trooper for the Sith? In fact, this is a great idea imo! BW ought to look into this.

I would actually argue that the beauty of Star Wars is in its simplicity. That's not to say complex topics of grey areas cannot be explored. But the force is Dark and Light. It can be deconstructed and criticized (as KOTOR 2 did), but the two sides of the force always remain constant in any Star Wars story.

All of this is speaking from a lore point of view, of course. Which matters a lot to many people, myself included. So I gotta say no to this idea. Maybe if another Star Wars MMO was made with this in mind, then absolutely yeah. But a change this drastic, this late in the game? I really don't think it would work.

For events, I'm fine with this. For certain parts of the vanilla storyline, or heroics, i'm fine with this, though there's not much point. For certain specialty missions like the Shroud, definitely. For fps and ops, i don't think it would make much sense. Imagine doing the foundry with a mixed group.

The RP would be spectacular though: A dark Jedi recently fallen from the Sith and working his way to being a light Jedi and fighting Revan on his way to doing it.

I like that there are clearly defined factions, for lore and for immersion into the story lines. But I also like options and convenience. It can be cumbersome to run two guilds simply because opposing factions can't technically play together. But there's merit in the rivalries as well. It defines the game.

When I played SWG, I was the *only* Imperial in a Republic only guild. Game mechanics required a faction choice for many things. I was our guild's spy. It was light RP but we had secret guild meetings and I was asked to go under cover to be an Imperial. I changed factions, befriended some Imps, married one (we did the ring thing and all that) and infiltrated their #1 guild. I participated in PvP and base busting with Imperials. I also met with contacts in safe houses to report on Imp numbers and city raid plans. I spied for the Republic.

Our guild city was faction aligned so I couldn't live there, until later in the game when they removed that restriction. Until then, I lived outside "city limits" and had to lay low and avoid citizens that didn't know I was a spy. I got shot at a lot. It was fun!

I like how EQ2 does it. I have done the betrayal quest a few times. I am in a guild that accepts both factions. I have seen guilds that allow only one, or only one species, or one class. I was in a business deal with a rich merchant, until I went to a meeting at their guild hall and they found out that not only was I from the evil city of Freeport, but that I was also a female. Those dwarves showed me the exit. Role play can be a significant factor.

I like that there are clearly defined factions, for lore and for immersion into the story lines. But I also like options and convenience. It can be cumbersome to run two guilds simply because opposing factions can't technically play together. But there's merit in the rivalries as well. It defines the game.

 

When I played SWG, I was the *only* Imperial in a Republic only guild. Game mechanics required a faction choice for many things. I was our guild's spy. It was light RP but we had secret guild meetings and I was asked to go under cover to be an Imperial. I changed factions, befriended some Imps, married one (we did the ring thing and all that) and infiltrated their #1 guild. I participated in PvP and base busting with Imperials. I also met with contacts in safe houses to report on Imp numbers and city raid plans. I spied for the Republic.

 

Our guild city was faction aligned so I couldn't live there, until later in the game when they removed that restriction. Until then, I lived outside "city limits" and had to lay low and avoid citizens that didn't know I was a spy. I got shot at a lot. It was fun!

 

I like how EQ2 does it. I have done the betrayal quest a few times. I am in a guild that accepts both factions. I have seen guilds that allow only one, or only one species, or one class. I was in a business deal with a rich merchant, until I went to a meeting at their guild hall and they found out that not only was I from the evil city of Freeport, but that I was also a female. Those dwarves showed me the exit. Role play can be a significant factor.

This really encapsulates just how much options in a game allow freedoms for the players to really be imaginative and really "play their way." Choices are good!

People seem to get hung up thinking just because cross-faction would be allowed, that means there's no definitive factions and that's not true. Players could dictate how they want to play! If you want to be in guilds with imps, great, if not, that's great too join one with only pubs!

I am just proposing imps and pubs have the choice to group/guild.

This really encapsulates just how much options in a game allow freedoms for the players to really be imaginative and really "play their way." Choices are good!

 

People seem to get hung up thinking just because cross-faction would be allowed, that means there's no definitive factions and that's not true. Players could dictate how they want to play! If you want to be in guilds with imps, great, if not, that's great too join one with only pubs!

 

I am just proposing imps and pubs have the choice to group/guild.

Bingo. Options are always good. You don't like cross faction guild then don't allow it but those that do it is not hurting those that do. I think people assume because there is an option they have to do that but they don't. It is like some of the guilds that advertise Erotic Roleplay or PVP only guilds. As a guild leader and your officers can make the choice how your guild will be.

Most of my friends and guild members are the same on both side so I don't see a problem for our guilds. Most of actually did that on SWG so it would be fine with us. We were used to that and was kind of shocked we couldn't do that when we first started a guild here at launch.

From a game aspect I would welcome mixed groups in operations and flashpoints. The revan flashpoints foundry and maelstrom not so much, but I could see it happening.

A mixed guild I am all for that. One bank so everything doesn't have to be constantly monitored to balance which guild has what. logistically it would be better and for conquest you will always have your members on regardless of which faction they are on.

These options come down to logistics and ease of play and nothing to do with lore.

Lore wise you always have members switching sides. Most of the Rebel alliance was former imperials who stopped being evil.

For this game I would think that the several alliances would sway some to switch just to follow the Commander. That a third faction would arise that would try to end the conflict on both sides as they proved they could work together.

Jedi or Sith Dark Jedi/ Light Sith

Troopers could switch and become mandos or imperial troopers. Mandos could join the pub military or work for the republic as a mercenary. Havoc squad going imp as an example.

Smugglers work for whomever that pays. Money has always been their faction and agents could be on deep undercover assignments or double triple agents.

You would not have to change the beginning chapters as the shift would happen during Kotet or onslaught. Onslaught would have been a perfect time to create a third faction as the Emperor/Empress of the Eternal Empire is already a third faction just a NPC one.

Some things would not make sense, but this is more a game mechanic than a lore issue.

As far as lore is concerned some of my toons the war for them ended on Corellia they defeated the Emperor and the Sith Empire collapsed as a result. For others they would never be so stupid to have all their ships in one basket. The stupidest action any military commander could do. My Eternal Fleet would have been spread out defending my territory from Zakuul to Coruscant. For my Sith the Eternal Empire would not have changed much and would have forced the Imperail Empire to merge with the Eternal Empire and then subjugate the Republic through treaties or conquest.

My Jedi would have their eyes open and see the conflict between the Sith and the Jedi as a destructive part of the Force. She or he would also have her military assets spread out and would not have lost them above Nathema or wherever the Grave Stone was. My commander would have looked to see a merger between the Sith Empire and the Republic and would have the military strength to back it up.

The Jed'aii would return and my Force users would be paired together.

A Jedi and a Sith as a team. A team to balance each other and work together towards getting stronger. Working inside a moral code that allows them to fluctuate in the Force. One to keep the other moral and the other to keep the one human.

Because of the large gap of time this third faction could dissolve back into us vs them at anytime.

Smugglers, agents, and Mandalorians could have been a third faction working both sides. Force Adepts or Bendu monks could have been as well. This game has had many versions of a third faction. Revanites, The Alliance, and the Eternal Empire.

But again the question here is not lore, but player convenience. One guild, one LFG a larger pool to pull from. They do it for pvp and starfighter why not ops, FP, and uprisings as well?

Or allow imps and pubs to be in the same guild, and if an imp guild leader doesn't want pubs in his guild, or vice versa, don't /ginvite them into the guild.

Done.