Sentient holograms, like Holiday -

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Holiday_(hologram)

And zombies, like Darth Sion -

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sion

As playable species. I'd pay a few coins for these unlocks.

Also, could we get Darth Traya's hair bands added to the customization kiosk? Thx.

Do you realise what a hologram is? They're basically just light. They can't interact with the environment around them. So that's a dumb idea.

Secondly, Sion isn't a zombie. He's human, just twisted by the dark side.

Do you realise what a hologram is? They're basically just light. They can't interact with the environment around them. So that's a dumb idea.

Holiday seemed to have no difficulty interacting with computerized systems around her. Nar Shaddaa's databases, the Jedi Consular's ship, and so on. Probe droids, seeker droids, courier droids and whatnot hover and are highly portable. Therefore a holographic character in the star wars universe would basically be a flashy droid, interacting with the environment technologically.

Also, what is a light saber made of for 500 Alex? And what are the light bridges on Makeb? If you play the Republic storyline you find out that the bridges are literally light made tangible, projected that way by bits of portable tech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3R9i1HHyb0

Secondly, Sion isn't a zombie. He's human, just twisted by the dark side.

Emperor Palpatine is a human just twisted by the dark side. To contrast, according to the Wookieepedia article, Darth Sion's body was literally killed during the great sith war. It looks the way it does because its decomposing. Sounds like a Force zombie to me.

Holiday seemed to have no difficulty interacting with computerized systems around her. Nar Shaddaa's databases, the Jedi Consular's ship, and so on. Probe droids, seeker droids, courier droids and whatnot hover and are highly portable. Therefore a holographic character in the star wars universe would basically be a flashy droid, interacting with the environment technologically.

 

Also, what is a light saber made of for 500 Alex? And what are the light bridges on Makeb? If you play the Republic storyline you find out that they're literally light made tangible, projected that way by bits of portable tech.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3R9i1HHyb0

Think he meant that holograms cannot actually touch things like guns, lightsabers or doors. They can't use anything that doesn't have a motherboard.

 

 

Emperor Palpatine is a human twisted by the dark side. To contrast, according to the Wookieepedia article, Darth Sion's body was literally killed during the great sith war. It looks the way it does because its decomposing. Sounds like a Force zombie to me.

That's not a zombie. That's just soul binding. Real Force Zombies are done via Sith Alchemy, like Darth Drear.

Think he meant that holograms cannot actually touch things like guns, lightsabers or doors. They can't use anything that doesn't have a motherboard.

Seems to me that shield generators, light sabers, and blasters all have motherboards. Attach an AI and projection unit to the generator and you've got yourself a veritable assassin.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051113041261/starwars/images/9/9a/Lightsaber-cutaway.jpg

Again, regarding the tangibility of light projection tech in star wars itself, how do you explain the light bridges on Makeb? If a projection node can create a surface made of light tangible enough to hold up an entire droid army, then it can also create a surface made of light tangible enough to grasp a door handle or strike a mob in the chest.

It's really not any kind of leap. The holographic character as a 'droid cloud', a network of shield-generating, light-sabering, and blasting hover droids with flashy anthropomorphic effects, and the holographic character as a concrete projection like the light bridge, literally shaking hands with people and flipping tables in response to nerfs.

They solved this problem the same way in star trek a long time ago. With the advent of the light bridge and programming like Holiday, star wars has everything it needs to do this simply.

That's not a zombie. That's just soul binding. Real Force Zombies are done via Sith Alchemy, like Darth Drear.

It's totally a Force zombie. Darth Traya liked Nihilus and Sion because they were both weird like that. One was a walking wound in the Force and the other was the Force in a walking wound. It's true that there are alchemical zombies in universe also - these would get the job done just as well. Wouldn't matter which type they use. Either way, zombies. Zombies, zombies, zombies.

Zombies.

If they were to show up, it would almost certainly be in the form of companions, rather than player characters.

Hey, I'll take what I can get. That sounds pretty neat too.

Seems to me that shield generators, light sabers, and blasters all have motherboards. Attach an AI and projection unit to the generator and you've got yourself a veritable assassin.

 

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051113041261/starwars/images/9/9a/Lightsaber-cutaway.jpg

 

Again, regarding the tangibility of light projection tech in star wars itself, how do you explain the light bridges on Makeb? If a projection node can create a surface made of light tangible enough to hold up an entire droid army, then it can also create a surface made of light tangible enough to grasp a door handle or strike a mob in the chest.

 

It's really not any kind of leap. The holographic character as a 'droid cloud', a network of shield-generating, light-sabering, and blasting hover droids with flashy anthropomorphic effects, and the holographic character as a concrete projection like the light bridge, literally shaking hands with people and flipping tables in response to nerfs.

 

They solved this problem the same way in star trek a long time ago. With the advent of the light bridge and programming like Holiday, star wars has everything it needs to do this simply.

Wrong. The processing power can't handle the A.I and the constant tangibility. Light bridges sacrifice the thinking for the tangilbilty. Hence why the bridges can't think for themselves. And Lightsabers, Generators nor blasters have motherboards. They are not computers, they're weapons.

 

It's totally a Force zombie. Darth Traya liked Nihilus and Sion because they were both weird like that. One was a walking wound in the Force and the other was the Force in a walking wound. It's true that there are alchemical zombies in universe also - these would get the job done just as well. Wouldn't matter which type they use. Either way, zombies. Zombies, zombies, zombies.

 

Zombies.

Wrong again. You confuse reanimation and possession. Zombies do not possess souls. They are simply empty shells that adhere to only the basic of needs. Soul binding is like spiritual possession. The soul returns and binds to the host body. Though the body can still decay, the soul remains intact.

Wrong. The processing power can't handle the A.I and the constant tangibility. Light bridges sacrifice the thinking for the tangilbilty. Hence why the bridges can't think for themselves. And Lightsabers, Generators nor blasters have motherboards. They are not computers, they're weapons.

Refer to the light saber cross section I linked above. Note the "energy modulation circuitry"? That's board-based data transmission right there. It's analog. Adding an interface, and therefore a computerized ignition mechanism, would be trivial. As a general rule of thumb, electronic solid-state machines are going to tend to be computerized or computerizable whenever computing technology also exists. Blasters, for example, aren't kinetic weapons like revolvers or swords. Even cars these days have circuit boards and chipsets in them my man.

Think back to the example of Holiday interfacing with the hyperdrive on the Jedi Consular's corvette. Do you suppose she could fire the ship's blasters as well? Are the ship's blasters not weapons? Are these not essentially large form, high-power versions of the hand held blaster technology? What's the difference?

It seems to me that what you're saying about the light bridge's trade-offs isn't based in anything. But that doesn't even matter, as the purpose of citing that technology in the first place is just to demonstrate that light itself has been engineered in the star wars universe such that it can emulate the tangibility of matter. So, by logical extension:

1. Where you can project light in virtually solid form, and you can control the dimensions of that projection, it follows that your projection wouldn't necessarily have to have the shape of a chasm-spanning rectangle. We see this in the video I linked as the dimensions of the projection are changed on the fly.

2. And where you can create 3D light constructs, it follows that the shape of your projection could be, perhaps, finger-shaped instead. We see these constructs in the example of Holiday and myriad other holograms.

3. And where you have the possibility of a tangible light finger, as we find here, you have the possibility of applying mechanical force to something in the environment. Now you have the potential for a hologram that can physically push a button.

Wrong again. You confuse reanimation and possession. Zombies do not possess souls. They are simply empty shells that adhere to only the basic of needs. Soul binding is like spiritual possession. The soul returns and binds to the host body. Though the body can still decay, the soul remains intact.

Strictly speaking a zombie is any dead creature reanimated and driven by force - be that force of will, as in the example of servile zombies that follow the evil aims of a puppet master, or by force of technology, as in the example of alchemical or viral zombies. The underpinning concept of the zombie is that force has overcome life and the result is corporeal contradiction, a walking abomination. That's it.

Refer to the light saber cross section I linked above. Note the "energy modulation circuitry"? That's board-based data transmission right there. It's analog. Adding an interface, and therefore a computerized ignition mechanism, would be trivial. As a general rule of thumb, electronic solid-state machines are going to tend to be computerized or computerizable whenever computing technology also exists. Blasters, for example, aren't kinetic weapons like revolvers or swords. Even cars these days have circuit boards and chipsets in them my man.

 

Blasters are not computerized at all. They operate like a regular gun, but instead of a bullet chamber, it uses a self recharging energy cell. This prevents Enemy hacking software from shutting down field weaponry or being disrupted by EMPs.

 

Think back to the example of Holiday interfacing with the hyperdrive on the Jedi Consular's corvette. Do you suppose she could fire the ship's blasters as well? Are the ship's blasters not weapons? Are these not essentially large form, high-power versions of the hand held blaster technology? What's the difference?

 

The ship's weapons systems are both automated and can be controlled manually. Automated, they only fire by targeting heat signatures or ion trails. It can't target on the fly. And again, it has a motherboard computer. So the A.I can interface with it.

It seems to me that what you're saying about the light bridge's trade-offs isn't based in anything. But that doesn't even matter, as the purpose of citing that technology in the first place is just to demonstrate that light itself has been engineered in the star wars universe such that it can emulate the tangibility of matter. So, by logical extension:

 

1. Where you can project light in virtually solid form, and you can control the dimensions of that projection, it follows that your projection wouldn't necessarily have to have the shape of a chasm-spanning rectangle. We see this in the video I linked as the dimensions of the projection are changed on the fly.

 

2. And where you can create 3D light constructs, it follows that the shape of your projection could be, perhaps, finger-shaped instead. We see these constructs in the example of Holiday and myriad other holograms.

 

3. And where you have the possibility of a tangible light finger, as we find here, you have the possibility of applying mechanical force to something in the environment. Now you have the potential for a hologram that can physically push a button.

 

It still requires a massive amount of power to do each of these things. You'd need an internal power source of a nuclear fission reactor to do all three simultaneously. Since the galaxy still relies on Hyperdrives and ion engines, it's clear that they are not as technologically advanced as Star Trek, which has FTL drives and Matter transporting. While there is a matter transporter on the prison world of Belsavis, both Republic and Empire say that the technology is too unknown to risk, they don't know how to safeguard the tech yet.

 

 

Strictly speaking a zombie is any dead creature reanimated and driven by force - be that force of will, as in the example of servile zombies that follow the evil aims of a puppet master, or by force of technology, as in the example of alchemical or viral zombies. The underpinning concept of the zombie is that force has overcome life and the result is contradiction, a walking abomination. That's it.

Force of Technology would be downloading a human brain into machine. Alchemy and Viral are Force of Science. But regardless, soul binding is not reanimation. It's possession. Reanimation means the body continues functioning after death. A possession just ties the astral to the material. In the case of Darth Scion, his body continued to decay and he felt no pain. If he was reanimated, the nervous system would be working and he would feel. The body was dead, but his soul still inhabited it, enabling him to walk and talk. Kind of like Chucky The Killer Doll? The doll was not a zombie, it was a possessed object that allowed Charles to stay in the mortal world.

It still requires a massive amount of power to do each of these things.

This can't be true. In SWTOR, for example, Holocommunicators are small hand-held devices. Projecting holograms must be power-cheap over the in universe technology in order for that to occur. In the films themselves, astro droids like R2D2 can project them as well. And in the Makeb story, the primary advantage of light bridges is said to be their portability. So those wouldn't be tied to massive reactors either.

Reanimation means the body continues functioning after death.

Right. So when you're killed in a war, like Sion, but keep on truckin' because you're really mad and can use the force, you're reanimating your own corpse. Sion's body, being dead, continued to decompose but was held together by the dark side Force of his will.

In the case of Darth Scion, his body continued to decay and he felt no pain.

In fact, Sion was called the Lord of Pain because of the pain he was incessantly experiencing.

Kind of like Chucky The Killer Doll? The doll was not a zombie, it was a possessed object that allowed Charles to stay in the mortal world.

Chucky wasn't a zombie because the doll wasn't dead. It was an inanimate object. That story doesn't deal with a corporeal contradiction between life and force.

Right. So when you're killed in a war, like Sion, but keep on truckin' because you're really mad and can use the force, you're reanimating your own corpse. Sion's body, being dead, continued to decompose but was held together by the dark side Force of his will.

 

No, you're spirit is so angry, it manifests itself and takes ahold of the nearest object. Say, your own corpse. It's a possession. Angry spirits can control the living. We call them poltergeists, not zombies.

 

 

In fact, Sion was called the Lord of Pain because of the pain he was incessantly experiencing.

 

They never said he was in physical pain. Otherwise he'd never get anything done. He was feeling pain from something else.

 

Chucky wasn't a zombie because the doll wasn't dead. It was an inanimate object. That story doesn't deal with a corporeal contradiction between life and force.

The story actually does. Remember that Chucky's goal was to transfer his spirit into a living body. Which, I might add, would not be considered a zombie. Darth Scion was a product of simple possession. That's why Plagueis and Palpatine based their research into immortality on Scion rather than Drear. Drear's reanimation didn't preserve his soul. Without a soul, you're not you. You're a shell that looks like you. No memories, no feelings, nothing. Scion, however, retained his memories. He still had his own soul.

They never said he was in physical pain. Otherwise he'd never get anything done. He was feeling pain from something else.

Wookieepedia has this to say about it:

When at last he achieved his method of immortality, every centimeter of Sion's body crawled with agony. Sion's flesh was decomposing,[2] covered in cracks and scars,[1] and his body existed in a state of undeath.[2] His skeleton was fractured in thousands of places, as every bone in his body had been splintered repeatedly and then reassembled.[1] The Force was all that held him together.[2]

Remember that Chucky's goal was to transfer his spirit into a living body. Which, I might add, would not be considered a zombie.

A living body, like a doll, is not a reanimated corpse.

Wookieepedia has this to say about it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

A living body, like a doll, is not a reanimated corpse.

The brief second the child's soul is removed, he is dead, is he not? That's what dying is: The soul leaving the body. The body is just the tether to the physical world. That's why cyborgs are considered still living, even if their hearts were exchanged or their brain was replaced. Scion had a soul. That's what makes him different from a zombie. Zombies have no souls.

The brief second the child's soul is removed, he is dead, is he not? That's what dying is: The soul leaving the body.

I'm an atheist.

I'm an atheist.

Religion has nothing to do with the process of death. A body that shuts down is not dead. A brain destroyed is not dead. Death is when your soul leaves the body, and there is nothing in there anymore. You don't have to have any theological ties to know you have a soul.

Religion has nothing to do with the process of death. A body that shuts down is not dead. A brain destroyed is not dead. Death is when your soul leaves the body, and there is nothing in there anymore. You don't have to have any theological ties to know you have a soul.

I don't believe in souls. When you get into describing what the definition of death is in a general sense, and you start talking about souls leaving the body, you lose me. Souls do not appear to actually exist and therefore cannot define death in my view.

As far as storytelling goes, though, what zombies don't have is natural will. Regardless of what mechanism one wants to use to explain natural will. They are instead animated by force of one kind or another, specifically in corporeal contradiction of life (and thus dead bodies as subjects), yielding abomination.

I don't believe in souls. When you get into describing what the definition of death is in a general sense, and you start talking about souls leaving the body, you lose me. Souls do not appear to actually exist and therefore cannot define death in my view.

 

As far as storytelling goes, though, what zombies don't have is natural will. Regardless of what mechanism one wants to use to explain natural will. They are instead animated by force of one kind or another, specifically in contradiction of life (and thus dead bodies as subjects), yielding abomination.

Souls do exist. It's what makes you, you. It's what makes your ability to have will possible. That's why Droids are not considered living beings. You can program a personality, engineer the ability for the droid to make choices and imitate natural will, but in the end, it's still not the same. But that discussion simply leads to the debate of life in the machine. But the point still stands. Scion remained Scion. He was not a animated corpse of Scion. He WAS Scion himself. He had memories. He had emotions. He had will. Scion was a person, not a zombie.

Souls do exist. It's what makes you, you.

It's fine that you believe this. However, I've never read verifiable and replicable accounts of a soul being found, measured, or identified in the real world. I have no reason to believe in them. It seems more likely to me that what makes me me is a combination of neurochemistry and experience.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201211/split-brains

Accordingly, I can't use "soul" as a delineation between life or death in a general sense.

But the point still stands. Scion remained Scion. He was not a animated corpse of Scion. He WAS Scion himself. He had memories. He had emotions. He had will.

http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Intelligent_Zombies

Wookieepedia describes Sion as existing in a state of undeath, purifying and decaying, suffering the corporeal pain of that existence, and being held together by the Force alone. Sounds like pretty standard zombification to me.

It's fine that you believe this. However, I've never heard verifiable and replicable accounts of a soul being found, measured, or identified in the real world. I have no reason to believe in them. It seems more likely to me that what makes me me is a combination of neurochemistry and experience.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201211/split-brains

 

Accordingly, I can't use "soul" as a delineation between life or death in a general sense.

 

 

 

http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Intelligent_Zombies

 

Wookieepedia describes Sion as existing in a state of undeath, purifying and decaying, suffering the corporeal pain of that existence, and being held together by the force alone. Sounds like pretty standard zombification to me.

Wrong. Scion was still Scion. Unlike Intelligent Zombies, he did not evolve out of an abominative state. Those zombies did not call themselves by their old names or create families. Completely different. He remained himself, whole and all. That's not zombification. That's pretty close to actual resurrection.

Wrong. Scion was still Scion. Unlike Intelligent Zombies, he did not evolve out of an abominative state. Those zombies did not call themselves by their old names or create families. Completely different. He remained himself, whole and all. That's not zombification. That's pretty close to actual resurrection.

The sticking point here seems to be that your criterion for 'zombie' revolves around a second or third will to replace the natural will of the corpse. Although I don't see this as a necessity as corpses themselves have no natural will by definition, such that any reanimating will suffices to create a state of zombification, Darth Traya's in-universe theory of the Force held that the Force dealt with Force-sensitives according to its own ends and would use or destroy Force-sensitives as it saw fit. Darth Sion becomes an example of this. With the Dark Side being the only thing holding Sion together, his decomposing body becomes thrall to it, literally its puppet according to this view.

The sticking point here seems to be that your criterion for 'zombie' revolves around a second or third will to replace the natural will of the corpse. Although I don't see this as a necessity as corpses themselves have no natural will by definition, such that any reanimating will suffices to create a state of zombification, Darth Traya's in-universe theory of the Force held that the Force dealt with Force-sensitives according to its own ends and would use or destroy Force-sensitives as it saw fit. Darth Sion becomes an example of this. With the Dark Side being the only thing holding Sion together, he becomes thrall to it, literally its puppet according to this view.

But Scion's motivations and actions were guided by his own choice, not by the will of the Dark Side. Scion chose to attack the Mining Facility. Scion chose to confront Kreia. Scion chose to fight Meetra. Those were HIS actions. That sufficiently changes his state of being from zombie to person. He controlled his actions. Not the Dark Side. If no external force influences the corpse, it does not constitutes as a zombie. It's a resurrection. Zombies require that external force. You can't make a zombie out of yourself. Someone or something has to bring you back with it's own power.

But Scion's motivations and actions were guided by his own choice, not by the will of the Dark Side.

I think Sion, compelled entirely by pain, and Nihilus, compelled entirely by hunger, are both models of addiction to the dark side. Although it is true that Sion chose to head down the dark side path even before he was killed, it is very debatable that either of these two were really making choices of their own by the time we get to know them.