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My gearing comparison pre/post 6.0 (as it sits on PTS) - long post


Darev

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I've seen a few posts from people asking what the big deal is with the change to a RNG based gearing system that we currently see in PTS. So I wrote out a 4 page document comparing the system we have now and the system that's in place on PTS. At the end of it are just 4 reasons I see the change as a bad design.

 

This might be seen as a redundant post but I don't feel it is given there seems to be some general confusing about what "bad" RNG is vs. the normal RNG we've always had vs "targeted" RNG.

 

Hopefully this post doesn't muddy the waters any further.

 

Here goes:

 

 

At this point, RNG has been in the game since the beginning. It isn’t anything new.

However, what is new with the proposed 6.0 expansion is having RNG as THE primary method of gearing to endgame. This is bad for the game as a whole.

So first, let’s define RNG. In effect it is where you kill a mob and it drops a random piece of loot/gear.

At the very basic level, there are three spots where RNG matters:

1) Can you even equip the item

2) Does the item match your class/role (DPS vs Tank)

3) Are the stats “optimized” (at lower levels, far less important than at endgame)

 

Prior to Ossus, the top end of gear was 248. Well, was this type of RNG used to gear up to 248?

 

No it wasn’t.

 

You could gear up to 248 playing entirely solo. Playing any way you wanted.

 

Once you got to level 70 you started earning GC points, which got you Command Crates every so often. That could drop gear specifically for your toon. It was RNG, but a different kind of RNG…targeted RNG…targeted to your character. Yes you could get a weapon, or a chest pieces, or even 3 in a row, but you never got tank gear if you were spec’d as a DPS…or vice versa.

 

Pre-Ossus path to gearing starting at 230.

1) Group content – operations

A) Run story mode ops to get 236 gear/token drops from bosses. Each boss drops specific tokens which you can turn into a vendor for the gear that matches your character’s class/spec.

B) Veteran Mode ops get you 242 gear.

C) Master Mode ops get you 248 gear.

 

No RNG involved as specific bosses dropped specific items. If you wanted a 248 chest, you killed the boss that dropped the chest token and took it to the vendor to exchange it.

 

2) Solo content – anything and everything in the game. Truly “play your way”

A) Get to level 70

B) Start accumulating UCs and Command Coins

C) Buy 230 gear direct from vendor on fleet with Command Coins

D) Buy 236 gear tokens direct from vendor on fleet with UCs – trade into gear vendor

E) Exchange 236 shell and purchase 242 token with UCs – trade into gear vendor

F) Rinse/repeat to get up to 248.

 

3) Targeted RNG – specific to your toon – via command crates

Each command crate COULD contain a piece of gear specific to your toon. It was random, you could get 3 relics in a row, or none at all, but you wouldn’t get tank gear if your toon was DPS. Targeted RNG.

 

 

 

The gear from the command crates were also moddable. This meant you could rip out the mods and put them in legacy gear, or cartel market gear, to let you toon look however you wanted. Both armor and weapons.

 

Yes, you could always use the “appearance” slots to make your toon look how you want, and that meant the moddable aspect of gear was less important specifically regarding how your toon looks. However, you can’t do that for weapons. What you put in your character’s hands is what everyone sees. There’s currently no way around that.

 

So after 248 we have Ossus, which steps away from this system and uses about 50% Targeted RNG and 50% grind for crystals.

Targeted RNG on Ossus:

You play through the Weekly “daily” mission on Ossus and get to choose from 3 different crates. Each crate contains specific slots for gear. If you want a chance to get a weapon, you choose the crate that gives you a chance to get a weapon. You may not get the weapon, but if you do, it WILL be a weapon you can use. Hence…Targeted RNG.

 

You can also take quests / group content to earn crystals to buy gear from a vendor.

2-3 crystals gets you a 252 item you choose direct from a vendor. No RNG involved.

Get 3-4 more crystals and get a 258 item (trade in your 252 shell). Once again, no RNG involved.

 

Thus concludes the refresher on current gearing in SWTOR

 

Here’s what 6.0 on PTS deployed with at first.

RNG world drops (completely normal game design)

RNG boss drops (completely different system than we’ve had in recent years)

RNG vendor for set bonus shells (moddable armor where the components were RNG…3 levels of RNG here)

RNG gear/crate vendor (you could buy a crate for a specific slot, but it was RNG what came out of it…semi targeted RNG)

 

::added from feedback:::

for each boss, each player has some personal loot. A guarantee that you will loot a piece of gear is a step up from previous. Not sure if the piece of gear is chosen via RNG, or if different bosses drop specific things. Would be nice to be the latter, I suspect it's the former.

********************

 

No more operation tokens

No more vendor with direct purchases for the new equivalent of Command Coins

 

Here was the initial gear/path design for 6.0 as seen on PTS

 

Get to level 75.

RNG gear starts dropping at item rating 270.

Get a FULL SET of 270 gear. All 14 slots.

Once your average item rating is 270, you’ll start to see 272 drops.

Once your average item rating is 272, you’ll start to see 274.

Rinse/repeat for 276 – 278 – 280 – 282….all the way up to 306.

 

Now, you won’t see random world drops above a certain level. Not sure what level actually, but you won’t, nor shouldn’t, see endgame 306 gear drop from random mobs while doing heroics, or whatever.

 

However, the operation bosses will follow this gearing path too. No more tokens to trade in at a vendor.

The harder content will get you the higher level gear, but as to WHAT gear items actually drop, that’s still determined via RNG.

 

There is a planned 100% RNG free vendor being implanted soon on PTS that will have a direct purchase of shells with set bonuses. They didn’t say the components would have set values, so those are probably going to still be RNG…but at least a vendor that we can get the set bonus shells that we want is a start. Not a great start…but a start.

 

 

There is NO method of gearing free from RNG at this time on PTS.

Except crafting, which has its own set of issues as currently seen on PTS.

 

So…here’s why I see this as a really bad design choice.

1) From what we see on the forums, now and for previous game updates, people hate RNG. Maybe not 100% of people, but I think it’s safe to say more people hate it, especially for higher level loot drops, than there are those who like it.

2) The RNG random world drops are a majority unmoddable items. You can’t pull components out of what you get and put it in the CM market items you paid real world cash for, or lots of in game credits for. That COULD diminish the amount spent for CM items. While not a great concern for me, I do recognize the problem this COULD present to Bioware/EA

3) There is no current 100% non RNG path for gearing. There always has been. Now there isn’t. A vendor for set bonus shells doesn’t change that. The shells won’t improve our item rating.

4) The item rating / upgrade mechanism is horrible. Needing to get your average item rating up to a certain level before you start to see the next level of gear is a crazy long and tedious grind. Doing this on PTS when we had unlimited currency, vai the RNG vendors, took HOURS. And that was getting gear in seconds. Can you imagine how long it will take trying to gear up a single toon that way?

 

I’m just going to stop there. I’m writing this is Word and this is the 4th page already. I’m getting mentally worn out about it.

 

There are going to be people who say they like the change because they want to oppose the general consensus of the forum. That’s what they do.

 

There are going to be people who hate the changes because they hate change. That’s how some people are.

 

There are also people who can see that this is truly a bad design change that was completely unnecessary and will likely cause a player exodus when the masses really see what’s going on.

 

I like to think that I’m in that 3rd category. I am not the most eloquent on the forum, but I try to be honest about my rationale.

 

This was just the first time I’ve tried to spell it out.

 

Have fun, enjoy, debate, or don’t.

 

Download PTS, try it out for yourself.

Edited by Darev
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The only difference worth mentioning is that for each boss, each player has some personal loot. A guarantee that you will loot a piece of gear is a step up from previous. Even the CXP pack from an ops boss wasn’t usually enough for a Command crate by itself.

 

Your other descriptive points are fairly accurate.

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The only difference worth mentioning is that for each boss, each player has some personal loot. A guarantee that you will loot a piece of gear is a step up from previous. Even the CXP pack from an ops boss wasn’t usually enough for a Command crate by itself.

 

Your other descriptive points are fairly accurate.

 

I'll add that. Thanks

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I have read that world drops are bol and can't be sold on the GTN, but I haven't tested it out myself. If that is correct there will no longer be cheap, entry level gear to buy when we first hit 75.

 

That is correct. I tested it out the last time I was on PTS

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Trimed.

 

Honestly i hate RNG, I like loot drops but they're not my favourite either but my preferred to CXP or Loot Boxes.

 

I would have preferred a new system such as a token/currency based drop on boss and on completion of WZ's/Ranked to turn in for gear. I like the idea of choice, you earn, you choose what you want and you spend.

 

Having RNG such CXP as a supplementary system that you'll earn stuff in the background for general EXP earned is great but shouldn't be a dependant system like current where you can only go through that to gear up in group content but at least you would not be leaving the solo players behind.

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[/ reduced for space … etc]

There is NO method of gearing free from RNG at this time on PTS.

Except crafting, which has its own set of issues as currently seen on PTS.

 

So…here’s why I see this as a really bad design choice.

1) From what we see on the forums, now and for previous game updates, people hate RNG. Maybe not 100% of people, but I think it’s safe to say more people hate it, especially for higher level loot drops, than there are those who like it.

2) The RNG random world drops are a majority unmoddable items. You can’t pull components out of what you get and put it in the CM market items you paid real world cash for, or lots of in game credits for. That COULD diminish the amount spent for CM items. While not a great concern for me, I do recognize the problem this COULD present to Bioware/EA

3) There is no current 100% non RNG path for gearing. There always has been. Now there isn’t. A vendor for set bonus shells doesn’t change that. The shells won’t improve our item rating.

4) The item rating / upgrade mechanism is horrible. Needing to get your average item rating up to a certain level before you start to see the next level of gear is a crazy long and tedious grind. Doing this on PTS when we had unlimited currency, vai the RNG vendors, took HOURS. And that was getting gear in seconds. Can you imagine how long it will take trying to gear up a single toon that way?

 

I’m just going to stop there. I’m writing this is Word and this is the 4th page already. I’m getting mentally worn out about it.

 

There are going to be people who say they like the change because they want to oppose the general consensus of the forum. That’s what they do.

 

There are going to be people who hate the changes because they hate change. That’s how some people are.

 

There are also people who can see that this is truly a bad design change that was completely unnecessary and will likely cause a player exodus when the masses really see what’s going on.

 

I like to think that I’m in that 3rd category. I am not the most eloquent on the forum, but I try to be honest about my rationale.

 

This was just the first time I’ve tried to spell it out.

 

Have fun, enjoy, debate, or don’t.

 

Download PTS, try it out for yourself.

 

Post is long … but one of the best I've read on this subject. Even if others disagree with your statements and or conclusions … there is no denying how well done this post is !

 

I personally applaud this post !!

 

VERY WELL DONE !!

 

I agree with a great deal of what you have said. There is no question that you have put a great deal of thought in to this.... and it shows !!

 

I've said it before … I'll say it again ! I will be on the PTS next week and be watching for the update that is coming.

 

BTW... don't give up ! Even after 6.0 drops !

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I've seen a few posts from people asking what the big deal is with the change to a RNG based gearing system that we currently see in PTS. So I wrote out a 4 page document comparing the system we have now and the system that's in place on PTS. At the end of it are just 4 reasons I see the change as a bad design.

 

This might be seen as a redundant post but I don't feel it is given there seems to be some general confusing about what "bad" RNG is vs. the normal RNG we've always had vs "targeted" RNG.

 

Hopefully this post doesn't muddy the waters any further.

 

Here goes:

 

 

At this point, RNG has been in the game since the beginning. It isn’t anything new.

However, what is new with the proposed 6.0 expansion is having RNG as THE primary method of gearing to endgame. This is bad for the game as a whole.

So first, let’s define RNG. In effect it is where you kill a mob and it drops a random piece of loot/gear.

At the very basic level, there are three spots where RNG matters:

1) Can you even equip the item

2) Does the item match your class/role (DPS vs Tank)

3) Are the stats “optimized” (at lower levels, far less important than at endgame)

 

Prior to Ossus, the top end of gear was 248. Well, was this type of RNG used to gear up to 248?

 

No it wasn’t.

 

You could gear up to 248 playing entirely solo. Playing any way you wanted.

 

Once you got to level 70 you started earning GC points, which got you Command Crates every so often. That could drop gear specifically for your toon. It was RNG, but a different kind of RNG…targeted RNG…targeted to your character. Yes you could get a weapon, or a chest pieces, or even 3 in a row, but you never got tank gear if you were spec’d as a DPS…or vice versa.

 

Pre-Ossus path to gearing starting at 230.

1) Group content – operations

A) Run story mode ops to get 236 gear/token drops from bosses. Each boss drops specific tokens which you can turn into a vendor for the gear that matches your character’s class/spec.

B) Veteran Mode ops get you 242 gear.

C) Master Mode ops get you 248 gear.

 

No RNG involved as specific bosses dropped specific items. If you wanted a 248 chest, you killed the boss that dropped the chest token and took it to the vendor to exchange it.

 

2) Solo content – anything and everything in the game. Truly “play your way”

A) Get to level 70

B) Start accumulating UCs and Command Coins

C) Buy 230 gear direct from vendor on fleet with Command Coins

D) Buy 236 gear tokens direct from vendor on fleet with UCs – trade into gear vendor

E) Exchange 236 shell and purchase 242 token with UCs – trade into gear vendor

F) Rinse/repeat to get up to 248.

 

3) Targeted RNG – specific to your toon – via command crates

Each command crate COULD contain a piece of gear specific to your toon. It was random, you could get 3 relics in a row, or none at all, but you wouldn’t get tank gear if your toon was DPS. Targeted RNG.

 

 

 

The gear from the command crates were also moddable. This meant you could rip out the mods and put them in legacy gear, or cartel market gear, to let you toon look however you wanted. Both armor and weapons.

 

Yes, you could always use the “appearance” slots to make your toon look how you want, and that meant the moddable aspect of gear was less important specifically regarding how your toon looks. However, you can’t do that for weapons. What you put in your character’s hands is what everyone sees. There’s currently no way around that.

 

So after 248 we have Ossus, which steps away from this system and uses about 50% Targeted RNG and 50% grind for crystals.

Targeted RNG on Ossus:

You play through the Weekly “daily” mission on Ossus and get to choose from 3 different crates. Each crate contains specific slots for gear. If you want a chance to get a weapon, you choose the crate that gives you a chance to get a weapon. You may not get the weapon, but if you do, it WILL be a weapon you can use. Hence…Targeted RNG.

 

You can also take quests / group content to earn crystals to buy gear from a vendor.

2-3 crystals gets you a 252 item you choose direct from a vendor. No RNG involved.

Get 3-4 more crystals and get a 258 item (trade in your 252 shell). Once again, no RNG involved.

 

Thus concludes the refresher on current gearing in SWTOR

 

Here’s what 6.0 on PTS deployed with at first.

RNG world drops (completely normal game design)

RNG boss drops (completely different system than we’ve had in recent years)

RNG vendor for set bonus shells (moddable armor where the components were RNG…3 levels of RNG here)

RNG gear/crate vendor (you could buy a crate for a specific slot, but it was RNG what came out of it…semi targeted RNG)

 

::added from feedback:::

for each boss, each player has some personal loot. A guarantee that you will loot a piece of gear is a step up from previous. Not sure if the piece of gear is chosen via RNG, or if different bosses drop specific things. Would be nice to be the latter, I suspect it's the former.

********************

 

No more operation tokens

No more vendor with direct purchases for the new equivalent of Command Coins

 

Here was the initial gear/path design for 6.0 as seen on PTS

 

Get to level 75.

RNG gear starts dropping at item rating 270.

Get a FULL SET of 270 gear. All 14 slots.

Once your average item rating is 270, you’ll start to see 272 drops.

Once your average item rating is 272, you’ll start to see 274.

Rinse/repeat for 276 – 278 – 280 – 282….all the way up to 306.

 

Now, you won’t see random world drops above a certain level. Not sure what level actually, but you won’t, nor shouldn’t, see endgame 306 gear drop from random mobs while doing heroics, or whatever.

 

However, the operation bosses will follow this gearing path too. No more tokens to trade in at a vendor.

The harder content will get you the higher level gear, but as to WHAT gear items actually drop, that’s still determined via RNG.

 

There is a planned 100% RNG free vendor being implanted soon on PTS that will have a direct purchase of shells with set bonuses. They didn’t say the components would have set values, so those are probably going to still be RNG…but at least a vendor that we can get the set bonus shells that we want is a start. Not a great start…but a start.

 

 

There is NO method of gearing free from RNG at this time on PTS.

Except crafting, which has its own set of issues as currently seen on PTS.

 

So…here’s why I see this as a really bad design choice.

1) From what we see on the forums, now and for previous game updates, people hate RNG. Maybe not 100% of people, but I think it’s safe to say more people hate it, especially for higher level loot drops, than there are those who like it.

2) The RNG random world drops are a majority unmoddable items. You can’t pull components out of what you get and put it in the CM market items you paid real world cash for, or lots of in game credits for. That COULD diminish the amount spent for CM items. While not a great concern for me, I do recognize the problem this COULD present to Bioware/EA

3) There is no current 100% non RNG path for gearing. There always has been. Now there isn’t. A vendor for set bonus shells doesn’t change that. The shells won’t improve our item rating.

4) The item rating / upgrade mechanism is horrible. Needing to get your average item rating up to a certain level before you start to see the next level of gear is a crazy long and tedious grind. Doing this on PTS when we had unlimited currency, vai the RNG vendors, took HOURS. And that was getting gear in seconds. Can you imagine how long it will take trying to gear up a single toon that way?

 

I’m just going to stop there. I’m writing this is Word and this is the 4th page already. I’m getting mentally worn out about it.

 

There are going to be people who say they like the change because they want to oppose the general consensus of the forum. That’s what they do.

 

There are going to be people who hate the changes because they hate change. That’s how some people are.

 

There are also people who can see that this is truly a bad design change that was completely unnecessary and will likely cause a player exodus when the masses really see what’s going on.

 

I like to think that I’m in that 3rd category. I am not the most eloquent on the forum, but I try to be honest about my rationale.

 

This was just the first time I’ve tried to spell it out.

 

Have fun, enjoy, debate, or don’t.

 

Download PTS, try it out for yourself.

 

Great post and well presented. I’m in the third category myself and I think you’ve touched on all the reasons why I feel that way.

Bioware are on a path to no where with this gearing setup. I can’t believe they have taken this route after all the back lash of 5.0 and the push back from a small increase of RNG in 5.10.

How can they not understand that a vast number of players don’t like RNG and having such a system drives people away from the game. Do they not look at past systems and failures vs successes?

Without being overly dramatic, I can see this having a net negative affect of player numbers and retention, not a positive one. That is the last thing this game needs.

Edited by Totemdancer
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Great post and well presented. I’m in the third category myself and I think you’ve touched on all the reasons why I feel that way.

Bioware are on a path to no where with this gearing setup. I can’t believe they have taken this route after all the back lash of 5.0 and the push back from a small increase of RNG in 5.10.

How can they not understand that a vast number of players don’t like RNG and having such a system drives people away from the game. Do they not look at past systems and failures vs successes?

Without being overly dramatic, I can see this having a net negative affect of player numbers and retention, not a positive one. That is the last thing this game needs.

 

Maybe they have bosses above them forcing it on them and we have to be diligent so they can prove to their bosses that the players really don't like it.

 

Maybe it's something else entirely.

 

I just find it difficult (not impossible) that it's the devs who have been here a long time just up and changing stuff for no reason, which is certainly how it seems with no explanation as to WHY these changes are coming with 6.0.

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Worst thing I've read about the new changes is requiring a full set of low tier gear before u can get high tier loot drops.

 

Sounds like countless hours of receiving guaranteed worthless trash until you get close to having a top tier set.

 

Reminds me of the tier 1 - tier 4 command crate grind.

Edited by RookStryfe
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Here was the initial gear/path design for 6.0 as seen on PTS

 

Get to level 75.

RNG gear starts dropping at item rating 270.

Get a FULL SET of 270 gear. All 14 slots.

Once your average item rating is 270, you’ll start to see 272 drops.

Once your average item rating is 272, you’ll start to see 274.

Rinse/repeat for 276 – 278 – 280 – 282….all the way up to 306.

 

I wanted to add this caveat to your initial gear/path design for 6.0

 

Something that I think most people won’t realize until it hits them is this gearing system is designed to not only force you to shelve all your current modifiable gear, but your weapons too. You will no longer be able to use your Unstable Vented Lightsaber, Rangehunter Blaster Pistol, Primordial Assault Cannon, whatever, until you hit gear level 306.

 

As for the gear you wear, you can at least use the Outfit designer to look the way you want as you level up via the 19 levels of gear, but weapons are not part of Outfit designer so, every time you get a higher level weapon, more than likely it will be unmodifiable, so your only option is if you want to continue to get closer to level 306 is to equip that weapon. As a side note, you will also have to install a crystal into every single weapon you receive. So if there are 19 tiers of weapon upgrades, each one of them will need to have a crystal. To save money, I wouldn’t bother pulling your previous crystal from the lower level weapon; just grab a new one from your Collections. Same applies to Tunings. Thankfully, they are in your Collections too.

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I wanted to add this caveat to your initial gear/path design for 6.0

 

Something that I think most people won’t realize until it hits them is this gearing system is designed to not only force you to shelve all your current modifiable gear, but your weapons too. You will no longer be able to use your Unstable Vented Lightsaber, Rangehunter Blaster Pistol, Primordial Assault Cannon, whatever, until you hit gear level 306.

 

As for the gear you wear, you can at least use the Outfit designer to look the way you want as you level up via the 19 levels of gear, but weapons are not part of Outfit designer so, every time you get a higher level weapon, more than likely it will be unmodifiable, so your only option is if you want to continue to get closer to level 306 is to equip that weapon. As a side note, you will also have to install a crystal into every single weapon you receive. So if there are 19 tiers of weapon upgrades, each one of them will need to have a crystal. To save money, I wouldn’t bother pulling your previous crystal from the lower level weapon; just grab a new one from your Collections. Same applies to Tunings. Thankfully, they are in your Collections too.

 

There is, or was I think, a separate thread specifically for that. It is a very good point that I didn't initially consider, largely because I quit feeding the CM real world cash about 4 years ago I think.

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As great as Darev’s OP and follow ups are, I thought I would add some extra support with this link to Xam’s blog outlining the gearing system as it currently is on the PTS because Bioware have just posted her “meet the content creators profile - Xam Xam”

(https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968409)

(http://www.swtor.com/blog/welcome-content-creator-program)

Here is her blog about 6.0 gearing.

https://mmobits.com/2019/09/17/gearing-will-make-or-break-game-update-6-0-feedback-and-thoughts-on-spoils-of-war/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gearing-will-make-or-break-game-update-6-0-feedback-and-thoughts-on-spoils-of-war

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I wanted to add this caveat to your initial gear/path design for 6.0

 

Something that I think most people won’t realize until it hits them is this gearing system is designed to not only force you to shelve all your current modifiable gear, but your weapons too. You will no longer be able to use your Unstable Vented Lightsaber, Rangehunter Blaster Pistol, Primordial Assault Cannon, whatever, until you hit gear level 306.

 

As for the gear you wear, you can at least use the Outfit designer to look the way you want as you level up via the 19 levels of gear, but weapons are not part of Outfit designer so, every time you get a higher level weapon, more than likely it will be unmodifiable, so your only option is if you want to continue to get closer to level 306 is to equip that weapon. As a side note, you will also have to install a crystal into every single weapon you receive. So if there are 19 tiers of weapon upgrades, each one of them will need to have a crystal. To save money, I wouldn’t bother pulling your previous crystal from the lower level weapon; just grab a new one from your Collections. Same applies to Tunings. Thankfully, they are in your Collections too.

 

I wonder if Bioware have realised yet that this will hurt their CM weapons sales? I bet it wasn’t even considered and they are scrambling to find a work around so they dont lose revenue.

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As great as Darev’s OP and follow ups are, I thought I would add some extra support with this link to Xam’s blog outlining the gearing system as it currently is on the PTS because Bioware have just posted her “meet the content creators profile - Xam Xam”

(https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968409)

(http://www.swtor.com/blog/welcome-content-creator-program)

Here is her blog about 6.0 gearing.

https://mmobits.com/2019/09/17/gearing-will-make-or-break-game-update-6-0-feedback-and-thoughts-on-spoils-of-war/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gearing-will-make-or-break-game-update-6-0-feedback-and-thoughts-on-spoils-of-war

 

That's a good write up. I had never even heard of Xam Xam until about a month ago. I don't pay attention to the "influencers" as that level of Social Media isn't something I participate in.

 

She also touched on something, at the end, that I've kind of left out of my posts.

 

Players can not rely on any content being as easy as it is now when 6.0 launches. The game is going to change in ways we have not seen in years. It will be a bit of a ‘culture shock’ for most of the player base. Ideally, a more efficient gearing system would ease this ‘shock’. Only time will tell.

 

That first bit, the first two sentences, they are key.

Easy mode for everything is getting turned off.

 

They are adjusting companion healing that, at least right now, makes the heals timed differently and definitely less smooth. Your health will dip far below what you're used to. If the heal from your companion is mis-timed, you'll die more frequently.

 

They are changing level sync for at least the early planets.

Right now on the starter planets, you level sync down to 12. On PTS, it's down to 10 (maybe 11, but I think 10). That closes the gap between your toon and the mobs. Between that and the companion healing adjustment...you may die doing things you normally face-roll through.

 

I've only taken a new toon on PTS through the starter planet, and that was during the previous phase to activate my account legacy, when they weren't letting us transfer toons from live to PTS. I haven't done it in the current PTS build. That's a project for when they adjust gear again.

 

There are more issues than just RNG. Other people are doing a good job championing them, and I think people see enough "Darev" from the RNG threads, no need to go into those.

 

Again, to you players who haven't downloaded PTS to play on it, please do so.

Let it install over night while you sleep, it will be ready for you the next time you play.

This 6.0 expansion is going to radically change the game. Please help test it and give a voice to your own concern.

 

I don't want to speak for you. I want you to speak for yourself.

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That's a good write up. I had never even heard of Xam Xam until about a month ago. I don't pay attention to the "influencers" as that level of Social Media isn't something I participate in.

 

She also touched on something, at the end, that I've kind of left out of my posts.

 

Players can not rely on any content being as easy as it is now when 6.0 launches. The game is going to change in ways we have not seen in years. It will be a bit of a ‘culture shock’ for most of the player base. Ideally, a more efficient gearing system would ease this ‘shock’. Only time will tell.

 

That first bit, the first two sentences, they are key.

Easy mode for everything is getting turned off.

 

They are adjusting companion healing that, at least right now, makes the heals timed differently and definitely less smooth. Your health will dip far below what you're used to. If the heal from your companion is mis-timed, you'll die more frequently.

 

They are changing level sync for at least the early planets.

Right now on the starter planets, you level sync down to 12. On PTS, it's down to 10 (maybe 11, but I think 10). That closes the gap between your toon and the mobs. Between that and the companion healing adjustment...you may die doing things you normally face-roll through.

 

I've only taken a new toon on PTS through the starter planet, and that was during the previous phase to activate my account legacy, when they weren't letting us transfer toons from live to PTS. I haven't done it in the current PTS build. That's a project for when they adjust gear again.

 

There are more issues than just RNG. Other people are doing a good job championing them, and I think people see enough "Darev" from the RNG threads, no need to go into those.

 

Again, to you players who haven't downloaded PTS to play on it, please do so.

Let it install over night while you sleep, it will be ready for you the next time you play.

This 6.0 expansion is going to radically change the game. Please help test it and give a voice to your own concern.

 

I don't want to speak for you. I want you to speak for yourself.

 

Bud.. You're on top of it.

 

That was exactly what I suggested a while back as well.

 

Some of you younger whipper snappers that are good at this stuff need to get in and find out first hand.

 

If you do a lot of solo playing … you need to be there.

 

If you're into PvP … you need to do your thing as well.

 

Change is coming ? IMO … It's already here !

 

And for the record Darev.. IMO you usually post some pretty darn good stuff !! Don't ever kind your self !! Keep it up too !!

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Great breakdown, appreciate the time and effort.

Players can not rely on any content being as easy as it is now when 6.0 launches. The game is going to change in ways we have not seen in years. It will be a bit of a ‘culture shock’ for most of the player base. Ideally, a more efficient gearing system would ease this ‘shock’. Only time will tell.

This worries me and if I ever find the priority to check it out before 6.0 hits, I probably will. I have primarily played this game solo, historically, and from the things I've read, it's going to be more of a slog - not difficult, just potentially longer TTK. I will have to see for myself if that impression holds up in my own testing, but TTK issues has always been one of the main factors in my struggling to replay KOTFE/KOTET. This game loves to throw high numbers of mobs at you, which I believe (from what I remember) was originally billed as being something to make you "feel heroic," and that the mobs weren't meant to be all that difficult to kill individually. Mixing together lots of mobs with high TTK makes for encounters and content that is simply an unnecessary time-drain and isn't all that engaging (in my experience).

 

The place where "hordes of weak or semi-weak mobs" seems to work much better is in the FPS genre, where attacks are often designed such that encounters end quickly and bombastically. And classic MMORPG combat, as this game does, is just not styled that way at its core. It's possible this is one of those things where the edges of its single-player legacy come out and that had the game not been multi-player, the combat would have been more bombastic and abrupt, similar to the pacing of KOTOR 1/2, which - though not as fast as a typical FPS - could certainly end pretty fast once you got some powers or strength going at higher levels.

 

At any rate, it is what it is now and those are my concerns about it.

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Hey folks,

 

PTS is once again available with a new patch. SNIP. The acquisition changes we talked about are still in process, I will let you know when we deploy those to PTS. Expect a write-up of what is changing when we get there.

 

-eric

 

Changes were made, especially towards loot acquisition. You also cut tech fragments in half on gold iLevel drops from 12 to 5. Are yall expecting us to have the same amount of tech drops no matter the color or iLevel? This is an outrage. PLease have this fixed by tonights end! We are expected to know what we are up against by production time...... :( horrible

 

This has me concerned and hopefully it’s a bug or mistake.

Edited by Totemdancer
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Another issue to point out is just how much RNG is involved with moddable gear and set bonus items and how badly designed it is.

 

When moddable/set bonus gear is obtained (from a drop, or a vendor) there is RNG to determin everything about each mod in that gear piece individually. So you have.

  • RNG to determine the iLevel rating of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the version of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the 20+ variants of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the amplifier on the mod.

And all this for every piece of moddable gear available, it doesn't matter if it is a set bonus piece, or a green shell version.

 

So the chances of each mod being at the same level (unless you get the piece at lvl 270) are very slim. At lvl 306, I have seen gear with a 306 armoring, 296 mod, and 284 enhancement, this issue alone means that most of the time when you get a moddable/set bonus piece it will be a downgrade in item rating from what you have.

 

Currently on the PTS there is no direct way to obtain any mod that are direct upgrades. So if you manage to get set bonus gear (all at the same level) that has a usable bonus for you, as soon as you get the next upgrade for that slot, you are forced to switch to it, so that your overall gear rating continues to go up.

 

So gear progression will be grind from lvl 270-306. At 306, grind for set bonus gear (at which time you can start to use augments, because it is not worth it at any lower level where that piece will be discarded for a higher level), then grind trying to get lvl 306 mods, then grind trying to get lvl 306 mods that have the correct stats on them.

 

So good luck to those players that are trying to gear up for ranked pvp or want to run the new op in hm/nim. Also due to the way level sync will work with the older content and ops, if you want to be min/max for those ops you'll need another set of gear set up with higher tertiary stats, since mastery/power/endurance are all capped.

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I wouldn’t mind the mobs from planetary heroics and older daily areas getting harder, if they fix the alliance supply crates not dropping and bring back the missing datacron decorations that I haven’t seen drop in literally YEARS! Increase the repeatability value for conquest, especially in light of the fact that personal goals are increasing. Basically, fix what is broken and missing and make the incentive worth the time investment.

 

Time to dust off those presence stims maybe?

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We already spent THREE YEARS playing 5.0.

 

In current year there should be no more EXP (end game experience) in the form of CXP or RXP. The loot crates are EA dictated in-game spam not even worth opening.

 

For myself when the addition of two new gearing slots "amplifiers" and "tacticals" was announced were warning signs.

 

6.0 combines the worse aspects of 5.0 and Ossus 5.10 designed to ride out the contract clock while separating the remaining "whales" from their time and money.

Edited by jimmorrisson
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Even with the current state of Live, I have yet to level one of my 27 characters to full 258 gear, and I would say I dump a tremendous amount of time into this game. The only thing I don't do, or rather, haven't done, is raid with an active guild since three years ago. Why is that you may ask? Well, to state what may be obvious to others, the game isn't exactly as popular as other MMO's, and non-comparable to a game like WoW Classic, which is seeing a record number of returning and new players. With server queue times up to two and a half hours. I even sat through that long of a queue time playing SWTOR just to log in.

 

If 6.0 gearing increases the difficulty of gearing to full end game tier more than it is now, with having to wait weeks to get enough crystals (even with unassembled components, crystals max out at 4 per week per character) then you're talking literal months, to years to max a toon. What about my 26 other alts? Well sir or madam, you bet your bottom buttocks I ain't investing that much of my time.

Edited by LG_XxLegacyxX
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Even with the current state of Live, I have yet to level one of my 27 characters to full 258 gear, and I would say I dump a tremendous amount of time into this game. The only thing I don't do, or rather, haven't done, is raid with an active guild since three years ago. Why is that you may ask? Well, to state what may be obvious to others, the game isn't exactly as popular as other MMO's, and non-comparable to a game like WoW Classic, which is seeing a record number of returning and new players. With server queue times up to two and a half hours. I even sat through that long of a queue time playing SWTOR just to log in.

 

If 6.0 gearing increases the difficulty of gearing to full end game tier more than it is now, with having to wait weeks to get enough crystals (even with unassembled components, crystals max out at 4 per week per character) then you're talking literal months, to years to max a toon. What about my 26 other alts? Well sir or madam, you bet your bottom buttocks I ain't investing that much of my time.

 

The only benefit of the system on PTS is that all "new" gear is going to be legacy. Once you get a 300, or 306, suit you can transfer it and make getting a 2nd 306 suit all that much easier. You won't have to do the complete 270 - 306 grind a 2nd time.

 

You will, however, need to wear DPS gear on your tank/healer for awhile.

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