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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
12.07.2019 , 08:08 PM | #9801
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
I feel that if I have the tools to prevent a team-mate's death (and subsequent repair bill) and no-one else does, then on principle I should at least try even if it isn't officially my job. While my main focus on a damage-with-heals character should be on the damage, throwing a few heals around can't be a bad thing, right?
There is a line between supporting a valuable team member and enabling an idiot.

Watched someone die 4 times on trash on VM hammer by solo attacking mobs and packs we had gone past.

Got round to dealing with their garbage after finishing the trash pack or even boss fight we were already doing while they attacked unwarranted trash packs.

I will not spend combat resources on a walking sandbag. I may on very rare occasions heal someone worth healing if it makes more combat sense than letting them die and combat ressing on a 30s CD for a large "heal", repairs are your own responsibility, they don't just happen.

My priority is to complete a VM flashpoint as efficiently as possible while typically "tanking" so someone finding a way to die before me is very likely doing something unhelpful to the groups progress and I won't support that (not to mention offhealing is a massive penalty to me progressing the fight through damage).
Hotwired

Niman, Tomb of Freedon Nadd, The Red Eclipse, Darth Malgus

2011 - The Immortals, The Lumberjacks, Nano, Not Good Enough, Disciples of Babylon, Salt Miners - 2018

JediAkemi's Avatar


JediAkemi
12.08.2019 , 11:49 AM | #9802
I can understand getting frustrated with people doing bizarre things.
I think it's because my top 4 characters are 3 healers (Operative, Commando, Sage) and my main Sentinel that I feel the way I do.

Padabiene's Avatar


Padabiene
12.09.2019 , 02:47 AM | #9803
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
I can understand getting frustrated with people doing bizarre things.
I think it's because my top 4 characters are 3 healers (Operative, Commando, Sage) and my main Sentinel that I feel the way I do.
I'm the same. I main healer and I just can't not keep an eye on the hp bars and, if possible, try to help out. And if it's just by throwing a battle rez when needed.

That's probably why the two sages yesterday were so strange to me. No off heal required, but brez sure would've helped. I was listing with my 40ish dps Vanguard and we get Maelstrom. Laser eyes still hits like a truck randomly and us low(er) lvls die one after the other. The 75 Sage dps doesn't react to me asking to pick us up and plays hide and seek until he dies as well. His reasoning for not using his brez: He couldn't do it, he had aggro. Eh, not until the end, there was plenty time, but I let it slide. Next try I prompt him when it's safe for him to use it and we make it. No big deal.

Next FP is Kuat. Same Sage, a Shadow and a second Sage. Good, I think. Just in case, there's a back up battle rez. Ha. We get Station Guardian One at the end. The Shadow is kinda camping in the cleave, the adds are more of an afterthought for the Sages and the Shadow dies. Remembering the previous encounter I taunt the boss so there's no aggro on any battle rezzing Sage, just to make sure. No brez. Shadow is a tad rude, but that's still no reason to not pick him up. After a while I die as well. Still no brez. I ask in chat to please, please pick us up. Nothing. We wipe. The Shadow gets in a bit of an argument with the second Sage. I point out as polite as possible that if they'd picked us up we'd already be done and gone. We both get called childish. That Sage leaves, we get a replacement, no one dies even though the remaining Sage makes a point in not using the koltos, but oh well.
What do we do, panic, freak? I usually panic but I'm happy to freak.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
12.11.2019 , 01:38 PM | #9804
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
Interesting. I'd never tested using the grappling line to pull a CC'd enemy out of the rest of the enemy group... but then I hardly play my Vanguard or my PT so I know next to nothing about that class.

Yeah, bubbles would've made all the difference, but I don't remember the Sages bubbling themselves, let alone the rest of us.
Oh well, c'est la vie.
They also could have pulled you, which would have dropped your aggro to those turrets.
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8 pugs and a grophet i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

Stormcrest's Avatar


Stormcrest
Yesterday , 01:13 AM | #9805
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
There is a line between supporting a valuable team member and enabling an idiot.

Watched someone die 4 times on trash on VM hammer by solo attacking mobs and packs we had gone past.

Got round to dealing with their garbage after finishing the trash pack or even boss fight we were already doing while they attacked unwarranted trash packs.

I will not spend combat resources on a walking sandbag. I may on very rare occasions heal someone worth healing if it makes more combat sense than letting them die and combat ressing on a 30s CD for a large "heal", repairs are your own responsibility, they don't just happen.

My priority is to complete a VM flashpoint as efficiently as possible while typically "tanking" so someone finding a way to die before me is very likely doing something unhelpful to the groups progress and I won't support that (not to mention offhealing is a massive penalty to me progressing the fight through damage).
Potentially in his defense I will say I came back a couple weeks ago and there has been some adjustment to the SWTOR way of doing content. In most MMOs I play we tend to kill everything, and indeed it's set up that way. In the fan re-released "City Of Heroes/Villains" (several version) I know a lot of groups like to clear all the black from the map and murder everything for points. In ESO avoiding mobs is usually not an option (though there are some places you can speed run). In SWTOR everyone seemed to know every map and have a pattern down and avoid everything, oftentimes running skillfully between packs of trash I didn't even realize at first sight could be avoided... and of course stealh classes knocking out mobs opens up all kinds of options there as well.

At any rate I adjusted, learned most of the maps as I played them a few times, and focusing on a couple of my stealth characters (Agent and Shadow-Tank) helped me figure out what stuff could be avoided. I guess things have been this way for a while... I was gone quite a while, and was never into group content in SWTOR until recently (mostly soloed). That said when I first started... yeah, I attacked crap I didn't need to, and some people were nasty about it, and even insulting when I tried to explain why. That said most were nice and helped me figure it out when they realized why I was doing it..... this was especially an issue on my tank initially, as being first in the face of the mobs is what I saw my job as... lol.

At any rate, I'm only posting this to say that as a lot of people are returning for a while due to the Mando show, new movie, new expansion, etc.... it might not be that the person is an idiot, they might just not know better. You are doing dungeon content here a bit differently than most other popular MMOs running at the moment.... that's not a bad thing, but SWTOR does involve a different mindset, especially if your group has stealth options.

One point I will make though is that when I was leveling to the new cap, I would have preferred killing a lot more monsters in general (though I went with the group) simply for the points. Now that I'm maxxed though, and it's all about tech fragments/item drops/conquest I can understand the desire to speed clear and get on to the next boss/run.

Oh and unrelated (for those that read this far) I think they need to retire, or re-build "Kuat Drive Yards". I find that one can take a little while, it has tons of trash to clear, and only one boss. While mahy FPs take as long or longer, they at least have three bosses. The Kuat one should either drop triple loot at the end, or the Elite Defenders should have full on boss loot instead of just low-end rep tokens.

JediAkemi's Avatar


JediAkemi
Yesterday , 07:32 PM | #9806
I am so done with group content in this game.

I'd just got my Commando healer to level 75 by doing the Voss Weekly and figured "Ok, time to queue for a random FP"
Got Veteran Hammer Station with an actual trinity group for once. More fool me, but I expected it to be fun.
(the other 3 were level 50, 60, and 70 - Vanguard tank and a pair of Jedi dps)
Started off ok, though they did try biting off a little more trash than normal. I kept them all nicely healed and out of real danger. We took the shortcut to the first boss, which should have been an absolute cake-walk, even if the tank attacked the droid before the rest of us were in the room.
None of them were in any danger - I was well on top of the healing and cleansing the stacks from the tunneling beam, and then all of a sudden the tank breaks off the attack and runs to a kolto station.

As much as I hate that practice, I can almost understand it in groups with no tank or lots of lowbies (sub-40), but a trinity group running the easiest group content in the game? Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

Some days, I'd let it slide. Veteran Mode breeds laziness by not requiring a trinity group, and the "Oh no, I've taken one hit! Must have kolto!" panic is something I should know to expect from pugs... but I didn't let it slide.
I went off on one at the pointless and insulting lack of trust.

One of the DPS (Jedi of some description) hit back by claiming that healers are totally useless in veteran mode, and had the unmitigated gall to suggest that THEY were carrying ME. They would've wiped twice before even reaching the boss if they hadn't had me, and they really thought I should be grateful to be allowed to play the content with THEM.

Wow. Just wow. That was the final straw. I told the arrogant drenheel to go frell himself, put him on ignore, and quit out of the group for the sake of my sanity.
I don't need people like that when I'm trying to have fun.

Oh I have no doubt that they pulled out a healer companion and carried on their smug little way. I'm sure they think they got the last laugh.

Honestly, between the current crafting mess, the companion nerf, the increasingly slow map transitions, and a rise in toxicity in group content, I think when my sub expires next week, I'm going to take another long hiatus to get away from the rapidly diminishing "fun" of SWtOR.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
Today , 06:16 AM | #9807
Someone clicked a kolto station and you...
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
went off on one
...and quit the Hammer Station VM flashpoint because it offended you.

When healing is a waste of time all good healers stop healing and help push the fight along with damage. That is also a display of skill.

Everyone is a dps. Some have extra controls to tank, some to heal but if you don't need to control a fight and don't need to heal right now you get back to focusing on damage.
Hotwired

Niman, Tomb of Freedon Nadd, The Red Eclipse, Darth Malgus

2011 - The Immortals, The Lumberjacks, Nano, Not Good Enough, Disciples of Babylon, Salt Miners - 2018

Gelious's Avatar


Gelious
Today , 07:30 AM | #9808
I never heal people in FP even if I am on a class that can. Reason? it's simple really. I only play dps. If I wanted to heal people. I would roll a healer and do just that. But I don't want to so I won't.

If I have a combat res and I see someone died, I will use it ASAP. But that's it.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
I went off on one at the pointless and insulting lack of trust.
You are expecting trust from a bunch of random people you have never seen before? Not a great idea.
"They will not! I command them to know fear! To raise me to my throne! They can not!" - Soa. The Red Eclipse:
Gelious - Sith Marauder; Xatras - Jedi Guardian; Xatra - Commando; Helimana - Mercenary; Nellios - Operative; Mellas - Sith Assassin.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
Today , 08:52 AM | #9809
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
Honestly, between the current crafting mess, the companion nerf, the increasingly slow map transitions, and a rise in toxicity in group content, I think when my sub expires next week, I'm going to take another long hiatus to get away from the rapidly diminishing "fun" of SWtOR.
Well, I hate to see someone "rage quit", but then again, you do have to realize that a VM HS FP is truly a PUG, and you have be willing to anticipate some possible problems.
I do think it's a bit over the top to RQ over someone using a kolto**. Myself, I only play DPS these days (I also played healer way back when). 75-80% of the time a VM FP ends up being 4 DPS or 3 DPS and a tank***. So, I get very used to looking after my own health. This means, of course, that in the heat of battle, I might use a kolto before I even remember there's a healer. I don't think a healer should get upset by this - rather, I think they should either appreciate the assistance, or just shrug it off.

** I realize that it's their attitude that was probably the main problem, but...

*** To put this into perspective.... When you do an FP, there's always a healer (you) and so you expect things to go a certain way. But, recently, I've been doing about 3 FPs per day and I can easily go 2 or 3 days without even one of those runs having a healer. You can't expect me to suddenly switch off my self-preservation mode because a (unknown) healer has showed up. And, btw, about half the time a healer does show up, it's a veteran PUG and they are just learning or aren't that good (and could use the assistance).
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

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JediAkemi's Avatar


JediAkemi
Today , 11:17 AM | #9810
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
When healing is a waste of time all good healers stop healing and help push the fight along with damage. That is also a display of skill.

Everyone is a dps. Some have extra controls to tank, some to heal but if you don't need to control a fight and don't need to heal right now you get back to focusing on damage.
Ordinarily, I'd just roll my eyes and do exactly that. It was just yesterday it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Myself, I only play DPS these days (I also played healer way back when). 75-80% of the time a VM FP ends up being 4 DPS or 3 DPS and a tank***. So, I get very used to looking after my own health. This means, of course, that in the heat of battle, I might use a kolto before I even remember there's a healer. I don't think a healer should get upset by this - rather, I think they should either appreciate the assistance, or just shrug it off.
Yeah. I know I over-reacted. A year ago, I probably would have said something like "You guys shouldn't need to click the kolto stations. I've got you" in the greeting phase. Might not have made a difference, but then again it might. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Hindsight is 20/20 after all.