I was just wondering the same thing actually - I've played two Vanguards, a Commando and a Pyrotech over the past year and created a new BH last night. Since my Pyro was on another server it was a 50:50 choice between the two. Given that it had been 8 months since I played my Commando, and I had been playing a Vanguard a lot lately, I decided to pick Mercenary.

I've spent all my time since then wondering if that was the right choice. PvE seems ok, PvP average but more to do with DPS output rather than interrupts: I wasn't against any decent opponents, perhaps got interrupted 3-4 times during the two WZs I played, but still managed just average DPS.

I've played every class to 30-50 (signature's very out of date) and Merc is probably the only one I've had real doubts about, but I think I'll stick with it because, as someone in another thread pointed out, we've hit rock bottom. The class can only get better.

for pve: yes

for pvp: no

So far I've found PvP with a leveling Merc very Strong, at level 40 in Alderaan I Solo'd 2 level 40's a Vanguard and a Gunslinger. I imagine the Jedi Knights and Shadows will tear you a new one at level 50. I guess i'll go forward with Merc then Thanks for the replies all.

What spec were you, if you don't mind me asking?

So far I've found PvP with a leveling Merc very Strong, at level 40 in Alderaan I Solo'd 2 level 40's a Vanguard and a Gunslinger. I imagine the Jedi Knights and Shadows will tear you a new one at level 50. I guess i'll go forward with Merc then Thanks for the replies all.

Sub-50 PvP is indicative of ....nothing in lev 50 PvP. The reality is that even in lev 50 PvP you can compensate for a lot of the Merc dps' shortcomings with raw player skill. Can a Merc dps be one of the 20 best PvP toons on a server? Yes, by having the absolute best player skill. But that is what is always comes down to. At the high skill levels, you MUST be a better player in order to achieve the same results with Merc dps. Because Merc dps is hands down the worst class in the game.

Sub-50 PvP is indicative of ....nothing in lev 50 PvP. The reality is that even in lev 50 PvP you can compensate for a lot of the Merc dps' shortcomings with raw player skill. Can a Merc dps be one of the 20 best PvP toons on a server? Yes, by having the absolute best player skill. But that is what is always comes down to. At the high skill levels, you MUST be a better player in order to achieve the same results with Merc dps. Because Merc dps is hands down the worst class in the game.

Im glad you worded it that way because there are some really good mercs out there, both arsenal and pyro. The thing about Merc is your not going to be superman on your own, you need to go with the larger groups and really find a good spot.

When i PVP on my Arsenal Merc i aim to get in the top 3 of DPS, we not the class to carry the Hutt ball so stay and control mid area, CW go to the mid gun and use pylons for LOS help, VS go with the larger force because Death from above is really needed to break up groups... the trick is and always has been play smart.. dont get trapped in a 1 v 1.. safty in numbers

What spec were you, if you don't mind me asking?

At that Time it was 31 Points into Arsenal, and in that pvp zone, spamming 4 tracer missiles at an on level Vanguard and then heatseeking missiles (give or take a few crits) took him from 100% to 0% in about 10 seconds

At that Time it was 31 Points into Arsenal, and in that pvp zone, spamming 4 tracer missiles at an on level Vanguard and then heatseeking missiles (give or take a few crits) took him from 100% to 0% in about 10 seconds

That long huh? =)

But seriously, In PvE we're fantastic. Good burst, good sustained damage. Healers have nice big heals.

Do not venture into pvp with a Merc. Its not worth the aggravation.

That long huh? =)

 

But seriously, In PvE we're fantastic. Good burst, good sustained damage. Healers have nice big heals.

 

Do not venture into pvp with a Merc. Its not worth the aggravation.

I actually tend to top the charts in damage on my lvl 43 merc. I get 3.9k crits with heatseekers all the time and deal very high damage with unload. The biggest problems for us mercs are the interrupts. I went 1 on 1 with a lvl 48 gunnery commando today and won because I interrupted his first grav round and I kept going with my tracers and stuff. He didn't hardly touch me by the time I was done with him. How good you are with a merc in pvp is based of your ability to get out of LOS, pop a heal, and to keep hammering away.

Mercs are fine for PvE, its PvP where they have difficulty due to vulnerability to interrupts and not many tools to keep melee off of them.

That's why I don't run in Gunnery/Arsenal.

OP, outside ranked warzones, DPS Mercs are perfectly viable in Pyro spec. It's one of my favorite solo PvP specs, I daresay (and I played every AC type save for PT/Vang at 50, with decent gear). Just remember to keep your distance and abuse your cleanse, LoS and DoT potential.

That's why I don't run in Gunnery/Arsenal.

 

OP, outside ranked warzones, DPS Mercs are perfectly viable in Pyro spec. It's one of my favorite solo PvP specs, I daresay (and I played every AC type save for PT/Vang at 50, with decent gear). Just remember to keep your distance and abuse your cleanse, LoS and DoT potential.

I tried Pyro in PvP today just to try it out, because logically it just makes more sense to me to play Pyro since a Merc's biggest downfall in PvP is mobility. As Arsenal your main proc is Barrage, which resets the cooldown on Unload, a channeled ability that forces you to stay put and is very easily interrupted (honestly I don't see why they don't add uninterruptibility to Barrage. Would make Arsenal much more appealing in PvP, and it's not like there aren't any other channeled abilities in the game that have interrupt immunity). As Pyro your main proc is PPA, which resets the cooldown on Rail Shot, an instant ability that can be fired on the run.

If mobility is your greatest enemy as a Merc then Pyro seems to be the best way to counteract that. Yes, to proc PPA you have to use casted/channeled abilities, but we're a ranged class so that's just the nature of the beast, and you don't use those abilities nearly as often as you do with Arsenal. I was apprehensive of losing a lot of the utility Arsenal offers (Power Barrier, reduced CD and increased KB distance on Jet Boost, root added to Rocket Punch, etc.), but so far I do think I'm liking Pyro a bit more.

My only major complaint about Pyro is that we're more reliant on IM than PTs are, since we don't have a guaranteed way to proc CGC like they do with the Busting Flame talent (we get increased armor pen with Rail Shot and Unload instead). This has lead me to have a bit of heat management issues but that may be due to my inexperience with the spec. To be able to reliably use RS whenever it procs I find I really need to put IM on my target. However, often when my target is half health or so or lower I find they die so fast that using IM feels like a bit of a waste of heat. I don't have TSO yet, so that's probably one problem, but I find myself high on heat if targets end up dieing quickly and I have to switch to new targets and apply IM again, just to be able to reliably use RS as needed. Perhaps I shouldn't be using IM on damaged targets and just hope CGC procs on it's own? I just hate hearing that chuckle signaling RS has reset only to find I can't use it cause my target isn't vulnerable.

I'm 39 on my Merc, so I don't have TD yet. However, I made sure to put 7 points into Arsenal to get Muzzle Fluting, so that will put me behind on getting TD till level 46. Having Power Shot's cast time be at 2 seconds just feels awful in PvP so I chose to prioritize reducing it's cast time over getting TD asap. Was this a smart move?

Overall it's still a fun spec to play. I have tried Pyro on a PT and I do agree it is a much stronger spec for them, but it still feels better than Arsenal for PvP.

I tried Pyro in PvP today just to try it out, because logically it just makes more sense to me to play Pyro since a Merc's biggest downfall in PvP is mobility. As Arsenal your main proc is Barrage, which resets the cooldown on Unload, a channeled ability that forces you to stay put and is very easily interrupted (honestly I don't see why they don't add uninterruptibility to Barrage. Would make Arsenal much more appealing in PvP, and it's not like there aren't any other channeled abilities in the game that have interrupt immunity). As Pyro your main proc is PPA, which resets the cooldown on Rail Shot, an instant ability that can be fired on the run.

Fully agree with the bolded part. Uninterruptable doesn't mean unstoppable (can still be ended with CC or ballistics). Although it would take care not to overdo it, since Arsenal Unload hits very hard when geared. Lest we get a 30-meter resettable Master Strike with a big slow attached to it.

I don't have TSO yet, so that's probably one problem, but I find myself high on heat if targets end up dieing quickly and I have to switch to new targets and apply IM again, just to be able to reliably use RS as needed. Perhaps I shouldn't be using IM on damaged targets and just hope CGC procs on it's own? I just hate hearing that chuckle signaling RS has reset only to find I can't use it cause my target isn't vulnerable.

Don't get hung up on IM. It's more of a sustained damage skill. It's very expensive, and should only be woven into your regular rotations when you find yourself firing Rapid Shots a little too much (happens a lot in PvP - and it's not a bad thing, since it's your main DoT and slow). Rapid shots is your bread and butter DoT, not IM. It's a free instant-use skill with a heavy damage 6-sec DoT. Love it, use it, abuse it. I tend to hammershoot the enemy a couple of times (I play a Commando), then load them up with explosives, Railshot=>Unload (can be cancelled harmlessly as long as it procs RS reset). IM is good for the past-opening phase when you're actively maneuvering, and while your main skills are on cooldown/have not reset.

I'm 39 on my Merc, so I don't have TD yet. However, I made sure to put 7 points into Arsenal to get Muzzle Fluting, so that will put me behind on getting TD till level 46. Was this a smart move? Having Power Shot's cast time be at 2 seconds just feels awful in PvP so I chose to prioritize reducing it's cast time.

 

Overall it's still a fun spec to play. I have tried Pyro on a PT and I do agree it is a much stronger spec for them, but it still feels better for PvP than Arsenal for a Merc.

I almost don't use Overload Shot (Charged Blast), since I'm always busy DoTing, cleansing and 'sploding, all while LoS-dancing. Casting something is more of a luxury than a regular occurrence. Just grab 31 Pyro and fill in the frill later.

Get to 40 ASAP - Thermal Detonator makes it kilotons more fun. Bad pun intended. As far as utility goes, don't dismiss Degauss (great kiting tool) and Energy Rebounders (or however the talent that lowers active C/D on shield when taking damage is called).

That's an interesting way to look at Rapid Shots. Instead of using it as a filler when you need to reduce heat use it as the main means to proc CGC. That would somewhat reduce dependency on IM, though you still run into issues of CGC just not proccing, thus delaying your burst and giving your opponent the chance to gain the upper hand, but I guess you'd just reach a point where you'd just throw out IM.

Seems like if you hold off on using IM that long though the target would already be damaged enough that the damage from IM itself wouldn't be worth the heat cost.

I almost don't use Overload Shot (Charged Blast), since I'm always busy DoTing, cleansing and 'sploding, all while LoS-dancing. Casting something is more of a luxury than a regular occurrence. Just grab 31 Pyro and fill in the frill later.

You'd still need to cast it when you can proc PPA and Unload is on cooldown, but with a 45% proc chance you wouldn't need to cast it too often so I guess getting TD at 40 would be the better option.

Get to 40 ASAP - Thermal Detonator makes it kilotons more fun. Bad pun intended. As far as utility goes, don't dismiss Degauss (great kiting tool) and Energy Rebounders (or however the talent that lowers active C/D on shield when taking damage is called).

Most Pyro builds I've seen tend to skip over Degauss, and Energy Rebounders seems to interchange with Automated Defenses quite often too. Seems like if you wanted to take Degauss you'd have to forgo something like Rapid Venting, though with the increased use of Rapid Shots needing Vent Heat up more often may not be as useful.

Seems like if you hold off on using IM that long though the target would already be damaged enough that the damage from IM itself wouldn't be worth the heat cost.

IM is a support skill, nothing more. Fire it a few rapid shots away from your initial opener (when you're low on heat) and you're golden.

You'd still need to cast it when you can proc PPA and Unload is on cooldown, but with a 45% proc chance you wouldn't need to cast it too often so I guess getting TD at 40 would be the better option.

You should cast them if the enemy lets you cast them. Which isn't an awful lot. If you stop to cast, even with no immediate threat to your virtual person, you're instantly a target for 5 Marauders to charge you and smash you into oblivion. Doing what you do while LoS-dancing is a great way of saying "I'm really not worth the trouble to try and target and charge me from the thick melee zone while getting pounded."

Most Pyro builds I've seen tend to skip over Degauss, and Energy Rebounders seems to interchange with Automated Defenses quite often too. Seems like if you wanted to take Degauss you'd have to forgo something like Rapid Venting, though with the increased use of Rapid Shots needing Vent Heat up more often may not be as useful.

I run this, and I'm fully satisfied. Automated Defenses, in my experience, aren't as useful as they seem on paper.

You should cast them if the enemy lets you cast them. Which isn't an awful lot. If you stop to cast, even with no immediate threat to your virtual person, you're instantly a target for 5 Marauders to charge you and smash you into oblivion. Doing what you do while LoS-dancing is a great way of saying "I'm really not worth the trouble to try and target and charge me from the thick melee zone while getting pounded."

Just seems like if you primarily proc PPA from Unload you aren't really taking advantage of the cooldown reset since Unload and RS have the same cooldown, although I may be thinking about it the wrong way. RS -> Unload -> RS with explosives is probably where the burst from Pyro is at. Proccing RS from Power Shot is probably more icing on the cake.

Yeah, that makes more sense when I think about it like that.

I run this, and I'm fully satisfied. Automated Defenses, in my experience, aren't as useful as they seem on paper.

Interesting. Most Pyro builds I see are like 3/7/31.

I would have thought Gyroscopic Alignment Jets would be more beneficial what with all the CC in PvP but I see you opted to skip it. With your liberal usage of Rapid Shots I would have thought Rapid Venting's usefulness would have been diminished. I did want to take Stabilizers but most builds I've seen take Hired Muscle from the Bodyguard tree instead.

Just seems like if you primarily proc PPA from Unload you aren't really taking advantage of the cooldown reset since Unload and RS have the same cooldown, although I may be thinking about it the wrong way. RS -> Unload -> RS with explosives is probably where the burst from Pyro is at. Proccing RS from Power Shot is probably more icing on the cake.

 

Yeah, that makes more sense when I think about it like that.

Yes, you are correct. Bombs+RS=>Unload=>RS is your bread and butter burst, indeed.

Also, think about it as priorities. Dead DPS don't do damage, it's a well-known fact. Mobility is the key to survivability, and, while you don't have the talent points for a full build yet, I'd advise getting 31 pyro ASAP, because it contains all of your core combat system elements.

About not taking advantage from PS resets - it's true. Merc Pyro is a bit less reliant on RS than PT pyro. One of the reasons for this is much more unwieldy reset system, and considerably less ArP on railshots. But instead you have long range, full mobility, cleansing (a very underrated skill that can remove many snares, roots, dots and some delayed blast skills like explosive probes which hurt a lot for Sab Gunslingers in particular)

So yes, I do see it that way - PS RS resets are icing on the cake.

Interesting. Most Pyro builds I see are like 3/7/31.

 

I would have thought Gyroscopic Alignment Jets would be more beneficial what with all the CC in PvP but I see you opted to skip it. With your liberal usage of Rapid Shots I would have thought Rapid Venting's usefulness would have been diminished. I did want to take Stabilizers but most builds I've seen take Hired Muscle from the Bodyguard tree instead.

Alignment jets are more useful to Bodyguards. Thing is - unlike PT pyro, you don't have a bread-and-butter ammo dump (heat gain) ability like Flame Burst. You don't need the excess heat dump in melee range (because the longest range stuns are 10 meters - the only things you'd benefit from is long-range roots which are available to, like 2 classes, one of them needs what amounts to a pve spec for that). And if something is in your melee range, you don't overheat - you get away. Your kiting skills cost 0 to 8 heat. Knockback, Degauss, stun dart, instant concussive, Sweltering Heat, Triage and LoS-dance.

Yeah, Jets are nice to have. But Degauss is much more valuable. You could exchange Jets for Rapid Venting, I suppose - PTs use it more because Flame Burst is a legitimate overheat burn (pun intended) tool, and Mercs would just use rapid shots instead.

There are options in the build, and quite a few points can be tossed around differently. Like Alacrity instead of Stamina (I still prefer the latter because the former, realistically, only mildly affects PS and LoS heals. And you can get Hired Muscle instead of Stabilizers in Arsenal. Matter of preference and convenience - I prefer Stabilizers, since shots can get pushed back with loose damage flying around, and I'd need to stay in the open more than I want to. But +3% crit makes more sense from a minmaxing standpoint.

Got to 40 and ran more PvP today. Pyro is a TON of fun. I'm consistently top 3 damage in warzones, and by using Rapid Shots I'm very mobile. I barely use Power Shots, to the point I'm considering taking it off my bar. I think in 4 or 5 warzones I used it maybe 3 times. Waiting for Unload to proc PPA and setting up for burst just seems a lot easier and fluidthan tying to proc PPA as often as possible. Would I do more damage? Probably. I probably should use PS more often than I am, but I find by the time I get my CGC up from Rapid Shots it's time to do my burst rotation again.

Glad you enjoy it like I do.

Have fun!

Got to 40 and ran more PvP today. Pyro is a TON of fun. I'm consistently top 3 damage in warzones, and by using Rapid Shots I'm very mobile. I barely use Power Shots, to the point I'm considering taking it off my bar. I think in 4 or 5 warzones I used it maybe 3 times. Waiting for Unload to proc PPA and setting up for burst just seems a lot easier and fluidthan tying to proc PPA as often as possible. Would I do more damage? Probably. I probably should use PS more often than I am, but I find by the time I get my CGC up from Rapid Shots it's time to do my burst rotation again.

This is the problem. At 40 it is fun but at 50 when the player base gets better overall you will find good players waiting for your unload to interrupt ruining your burst potential. You will not be able to use power shot for the same reasons as above...a vanguard can lock you out of any channeled ability for over 20 seconds forcing you to rely on rapid shots, your dot, grenades and your punch. They get to use every ability they have without worry. One jedi will be able to destroy you with very little effort. You have fun now thinking to yourself man what a great class and then hit 50 pvp and grind the gear only to find out that the class is average when played flawlessly...when you could be playing vanguard assault for much greater effect. Yes, you will have a good game every once in awhile...but play an AC where every game is a good game.

So yes, I do see it that way - PS RS resets are icing on the cake.

Actually they are the cake or lack there of in the merc's case. While a Powertech can fairly reliably max our a 3 second burst in the 17k range on the move the merc cannot.