Hi there, I usually play Deception in PVE operations. My gear is tuned specifically for Deception with a much higher crit rating that other classes would consider taking. I was wondering if anyone has a good baseline for where crit should be at for endgame PVE content in Madness spec. I saw a post about PVP but nothing for PVE. I lurk alot on the forums and know there are some really knowledgeable assassins on here and was hoping to get their take on it. Here is my current AMR for Deception spec.

AMR Profile Dalara

Come tomorrow I will be practicing like mad on the dummy to make sure I am ready for my first full madness OPs run. Any information would be helpful and much appreciated.

I have not changed my crit values. I run with 600+ crit rating with madness, and it has been brilliant. Best DPS numbers I've ever pulled with a Sin both PvE and PvP.

I have not changed my crit values. I run with 600+ crit rating with madness, and it has been brilliant. Best DPS numbers I've ever pulled with a Sin both PvE and PvP.

 

600+ is pretty extreme, what numbers are you hitting?

 

Top parses from the boards are running close to or less than 400 rating. See: #1, #2, #3, #4 has no available AMR, #5, #6 and, yours truly, #7. Civilie, who should be #5 if he'd post an AMR and post to the world forums, runs less than 300 rating, having done the math himself to figure out the optimal rating.

I just saw that MKnight is around 352 crit on his AMR that he had that 3400 parse with. I know he has alot of DM gear as well as a very high skill level with the class. I just re-tuned my gear for Madness from my Deception set which was running almost 500 crit, down to about 290 crit. After looking at MKnight's AMR from that parse I will probably throw in 1 more crit mod once I get a bit more DM gear. Thanks Aelanis, you are always so helpful!

Where we got the 600 crit rating idea was from a Shadow that runs with KBN and his raid group. He stated that the said shadow uses 200 roughly crit for doing dummy parses but runs 600 for actual raids to even out the DPS from the RNG that Madsins where plagued with before the 2.8 patch. Which makes sense since on a dummy you can keep trying till you get that perfect parse with RNG involved under ideal conditions. Where as in a raid the chances of you having those same conditions are almost never and you can't exactly do over a boss. You either win or you don't.

 

That being said, I think around 340-400 is most likely a better stat goal after the 2.8. Only reason I would say this is because Madsins are very very squishy over other classes/specs. You really have no CD's that help mitigate any damage so the extra crit will help with giving you some survivability in fights that have tons of AOE or random attacks from the boss that the healers just have to push through.

Actually we have 3 abilities to help mitigate damage, force shroud, deflection, and mass mind control (if spec'd into it). I generally use mass mind control at the start of the fight to avoid pulling (or if I pull I use it right away), I use shroud for known mechanics or oh sh*t moments, I use deflection when I am getting pressure from melee adds (not sure how much it helps but I do it anyways). Another instance where I use mass mind control is when I am under the bubble on Draxxus NIM to get the adds to look away from me while I am unable to be healed, gives me enough time to kill the bulwark and then run out to get heals and swap to the boss. Although I stand by Mknight that Draxxus is better fought with Deception and I swap to Deception for this fight only (I have tried the fight multiple times in Madness and pull higher DPS in Deception on this fight).

Actually we have 3 abilities to help mitigate damage, force shroud, deflection, and mass mind control (if spec'd into it). I generally use mass mind control at the start of the fight to avoid pulling (or if I pull I use it right away), I use shroud for known mechanics or oh sh*t moments, I use deflection when I am getting pressure from melee adds (not sure how much it helps but I do it anyways). Another instance where I use mass mind control is when I am under the bubble on Draxxus NIM to get the adds to look away from me while I am unable to be healed, gives me enough time to kill the bulwark and then run out to get heals and swap to the boss. Although I stand by Mknight that Draxxus is better fought with Deception and I swap to Deception for this fight only (I have tried the fight multiple times in Madness and pull higher DPS in Deception on this fight).

 

Threat dumps are honestly best used after a tank taunts off of you. It puts greater distance between your threat and theirs, and thus gives the tank more time before you're able to pull again, if at all.

This guy plays on my server and this is his AMR. He also plays from Australia, so I'm pretty sure whatever he's doing could be significantly higher if he didn't play with 300ms.

Threat dumps are honestly best used after a tank taunts off of you. It puts greater distance between your threat and theirs, and thus gives the tank more time before you're able to pull again, if at all.

 

I usually pull about 5 gcds after the tank pulls, if i pull at all. I will gladly take any tips though.

I usually pull about 5 gcds after the tank pulls, if i pull at all. I will gladly take any tips though.

 

If you do your threat drop off the rip, then the tank taunts, he will have jumped over your threat when it's at its lowest level. If you do your opener and generate max threat, the tank's taunt will take him above that, and your subsequent threat drop will push you far below where he currently is. How this is all worked out depends on the fight, but for instance, on a fight where the tanks are swapping regularly, if you're dropping threat just after each swap, the possibility of you pulling will continue to lessen, each taunt pushing the taunting tank to the top of the threat table, and each of your drops pushing you below whatever your current threat level is.

If you do your threat drop off the rip, then the tank taunts, he will have jumped over your threat when it's at its lowest level. If you do your opener and generate max threat, the tank's taunt will take him above that, and your subsequent threat drop will push you far below where he currently is. How this is all worked out depends on the fight, but for instance, on a fight where the tanks are swapping regularly, if you're dropping threat just after each swap, the possibility of you pulling will continue to lessen, each taunt pushing the taunting tank to the top of the threat table, and each of your drops pushing you below whatever your current threat level is.

 

Yeah, the best thing to do is wait for the tank to re-taunt and have the tanks state: "threat drop" so that it's timed appropriately.