I'd like to know how much YOU pvp because you are literally clueless about how to play this game.

 

i'm going to repeat what I said in another tthread: Buy chestpoiece. Pull mods. Put in legacy chestpiece. Profit.

Wow, rude much. I actually said in the last post that you can do what you just accused me of not knowing. The problem is the time it takes. Which seems to be too hard for people to understand.

But I’ll answer your question because you asked so politely. I’ve been playing between 15-40 hours of pvp a week since the game was launched. I’ve more time in pvp than most people playing the entire game these days.

But here’s the thing. Before that Alt can buy the gear, they need to reach hero standing. They takes time to do each character, that takes away play time from pvp and also the ability to acquire more UCs.

 

The issue at hand isnt that you can’t buy gear on Alts, it’s the time it takes, which makes the grind terrible.

This is 100% completely and categorically false. Reputation gains are legacy-wide. All one needs to do to check this is to gain rep on one character, switch out to a different one, and open the reputation tab to see that all characters have the exact same rep gain.

You are (once again) conveying patently and demonstrably provable false, inaccurate information.

The only wrinkle, which is still purely speculative at this point, is the possibility of separate Republic and Imperial faction reputations a la Iokath. Even if true, however, that would impact only cosmetic gear since you just legacy the gear over.

Dasty

considering that the rating jumps from 248 to 258 instead of 6 points, and there are a lot of people out there with 50k+ UCs on stock, its totaly fine.

 

is it harder to get? yes. is it too hard to get? definitly not.

What do you mean 6 points? 230 to 248, a difference of 18, is cheaper than 248 to 258, a difference of 10. If you just want to look at 242 to 248 obviously that's going to be WAY cheaper. But I don't understand the logic that it's reasonable for a 10 point jump to cost that much when you can do an 18 point jump for less even in the worst case scenario of buying every single piece. If you're basing pricing on how much the gear rating jumps it's not reasonable at all.

Also you should never base prices on people who happen to have hoards of something. It screws over fresh level 70s. This is going to create even more of a gap in gear level in PvP since no one is going to spend UCs on anything less than 258 now. So people are just going to be in 230 and whatever pieces they get from RNG crates (unless they also do raids) until they can start getting 258. Most people I see in warzones aren't even close to 248 as it is.

And the whole 'send mods across your alts' thing is a bad excuse for a bad system. Yes you can do it and it's nice to have that option. But to expect people to share one set of gear across all their alts and pretend that's a good gearing system is terrible. I play several different characters multiple times a day. I don't want the extra busy work of keeping track of where my gear is. I don't know why people are defending a grindy, convoluted system being tacked onto the end of an already convoluted system. I'm not saying it's impossible for PvPers to get 258, I'm saying it's a bad system and they can do better.

Realistically speaking, a person who plays 3 hours a week is unlikely to even get 248, let alone 258. As for Nim raids... Don't think that I've seen a hardcore raider that only logs in once per week (I'm in a guild that has 2 NiM teams, though I'm just a scrub HM raider).

My guild is down to a single raid team that plays one night a week, when we can get a full group. A couple members log on more often and one or two raid with another team in another guild, but that's it. Personally, I play another game that actually has content releases, regular events, etc. I only maintain my SWTOR sub because of my raid team. It dies off completely, I'm out. (It has been teetering on the edge of dying since 5.0 dropped. This in a guild that had 15 raid teams before 4.0 dropped.)

But here’s the thing. Before that Alt can buy the gear, they need to reach hero standing. They takes time to do each character, that takes away play time from pvp and also the ability to acquire more UCs.*

dont ever accuse anybody again of not knowing what they are talking about. this is embarrasing.

What do you mean 6 points? 230 to 248, a difference of 18, is cheaper than 248 to 258, a difference of 10. If you just want to look at 242 to 248 obviously that's going to be WAY cheaper. But I don't understand the logic that it's reasonable for a 10 point jump to cost that much when you can do an 18 point jump for less even in the worst case scenario of buying every single piece. If you're basing pricing on how much the gear rating jumps it's not reasonable at all.

 

Also you should never base prices on people who happen to have hoards of something. It screws over fresh level 70s. This is going to create even more of a gap in gear level in PvP since no one is going to spend UCs on anything less than 258 now. So people are just going to be in 230 and whatever pieces they get from RNG crates (unless they also do raids) until they can start getting 258. Most people I see in warzones aren't even close to 248 as it is.

 

And the whole 'send mods across your alts' thing is a bad excuse for a bad system. Yes you can do it and it's nice to have that option. But to expect people to share one set of gear across all their alts and pretend that's a good gearing system is terrible. I play several different characters multiple times a day. I don't want the extra busy work of keeping track of where my gear is. I don't know why people are defending a grindy, convoluted system being tacked onto the end of an already convoluted system. I'm not saying it's impossible for PvPers to get 258, I'm saying it's a bad system and they can do better.

you just said it yourself, if it would be cheaper to go from 230 to 258, as it is to go to 248, why would anybody even consider buying the first 4 tears anymore?

you are not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player in any game. that would be just plain stupid game design.

You just said it yourself, if it would be cheaper to go from 230 to 258, as it is to go to 248, why would anybody even consider buying the first 4 tears anymore?

True. But wouldn't it be logical for there to be some sort of upgrade path from 248 to 258?

you just said it yourself, if it would be cheaper to go from 230 to 258, as it is to go to 248, why would anybody even consider buying the first 4 tears anymore?

 

you are not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player in any game. that would be just plain stupid game design.

So if you're not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player, you should be against this gearing system because new level 70s will be able to get BiS gear by buying credits and then purchasing the gear from crafters. It might take a couple weeks once 5.10 releases for all the components to be for sale but that will be a thing that happens once people are routinely killing NiM GotM.

How is that reasonable exactly? It costs more to go from 248 to 258 than it does to go from 230 to 248 even assuming you have to fully upgrade every single piece.

Welcome to the norms of gear progression in MMOs. You know.. where actual resources/effort (be they credits, or tokens, or time, or some combination thereof) suffer diminishing returns as you move up the gear progression curve.

Rather then crying in your milk about what we currently know (which by the way is not finalized at all yet) about the new gear.... maybe put some constructive energy into objectively lobbying the studio to raise PvP bolster to within grasp of the new gears power levels.

So if you're not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player, you should be against this gearing system because new level 70s will be able to get BiS gear by buying credits and then purchasing the gear from crafters. It might take a couple weeks once 5.10 releases for all the components to be for sale but that will be a thing that happens once people are routinely killing NiM GotM.

What part of it will take weeks for the crafting engine to get ramped up on a server do you not understand? You act like crafted gear will be available for sale on the GTNs on day one after the patch.

Besides... what possible use does a new level 70 have for tier 5 gear on day one? They may want it (some people want a free Ferarri too) ... but in a wide range of scenarios.. they do not actually need it.... yet you present a catastrophic scenario as fact when it is simply contrived pretexting within your own head.

Not to mention the absurdity of your claim that players will just buy credits to buy gear. There are of course always a few players that will go such a route.. but most players in this game who have been around for years are wealthy already. If they are not wealthy.. that is entirely due to their own poor planning or disregard for the fundamentals of player economies inside MMOs.

No matter how you look at it.. the new gear IS a grind for ALL players... regardless of the pathway they choose to acquire it. And yes.. some players will be better prepared by advance gathering of resources prior to patch.. but that is just the difference between the prepared player who plans in advance VS the player that logs in and immediately whines that the gear is not low hanging fruit on a tree right in front of them.

The absurd meta theme with some of the discussion around this new gear is: faux astonishment that the gear is hard to get.. and requires a grind regardless of which path you choose to pursue it AND has some deliberate throttles in place to prevent players with stored accumulated resources from just blasting through gearing on day 1.

Then again.. back in 4.0.. the studio stupidly made BiS gear more like gumdrops from a dispenser machine rather then the more traditional grind fest that is common in MMOs. Once you make a mistake like this, trying to return to a more normal approach is always going to result in incoming mortar barrages by some players.

Like all gear grinds in MMOs ... each player should simply assess if they really need it (not want it, but need it) to play what they like to play in the game. If the answer is no.. then move on.. nothing to see here. If the answer is yes.. then you are clearly working the very edge of difficulty and challenge in game and should already know there is no free, or even deeply discounted, ride to be had here. Do the work and gain the result or admit you are just after a welfare style handout.

Constant vomiting in the forums over the path to this gear is not going to impress the studio nor encourage it to change paths. Good solid, objective, numbers backed feedback in the PTS forum might.. but there really is little of that taking place because people would rather just conflate, grumble, create worst case hyperbole statements, grumble some more, go on a full Chicken-Little role play, grumble some more, rinse and repeat.

Welcome to the norms of gear progression in MMOs. You know.. where actual resources/effort (be they credits, or tokens, or time, or some combination thereof) suffer diminishing returns as you move up the gear progression curve.

 

Rather then crying in your milk about what we currently know (which by the way is not finalized at all yet) about the new gear.... maybe put some constructive energy into objectively lobbying the studio to raise PvP bolster to within grasp of the new gears power levels.

Don't tell me to lobby to get what you personally want. Bolster would be not terrible but I'd much rather have separate PvP and PvE gear again. Or to leave the current gearing system and just add the new tier to how it works now. I don't trust them to make bolster work correctly and not be exploitable. And I'm fully aware the system isn't finalized yet, which is why I'm complaining about it NOW when they might still do something about it.

What part of it will take weeks for the crafting engine to get ramped up on a server do you not understand? You act like crafted gear will be available for sale on the GTNs on day one after the patch.

 

Besides... what possible use does a new level 70 have for tier 5 gear on day one? They may want it (some people want a free Ferarri too) ... but in a wide range of scenarios.. they do not actually need it.... yet you present a catastrophic scenario as fact when it is simply contrived pretexting within your own head.

 

Not to mention the absurdity of your claim that players will just buy credits to buy gear. There are of course always a few players that will go such a route.. but most players in this game who have been around for years are wealthy already. If they are not wealthy.. that is entirely due to their own poor planning or disregard for the fundamentals of player economies inside MMOs.

 

No matter how you look at it.. the new gear IS a grind for ALL players... regardless of the pathway they choose to acquire it. And yes.. some players will be better prepared by advance gathering of resources prior to patch.. but that is just the difference between the prepared player who plans in advance VS the player that logs in and immediately whines that the gear is not low hanging fruit on a tree right in front of them.

I said it might take a couple weeks. I'm not talking about immediately at the start of the patch. I'm talking when we are well into it, new level 70s can straight up buy BiS. You can keep saying how people don't need the gear, which is true. Literally no one NEEDS the gear. Nightmare raiders don't even need it. If that's what you really think then why aren't you arguing to not introduce a new tier at all? And do you honestly think there aren't people with more money than sense who won't buy the best gear ASAP? When have rich people ever been reasonable spenders? Of course they're going to buy the Ferrari they want but don't need.

Don't tell me to lobby to get what you personally want. Bolster would be not terrible but I'd much rather have separate PvP and PvE gear again. Or to leave the current gearing system and just add the new tier to how it works now. I don't trust them to make bolster work correctly and not be exploitable. And I'm fully aware the system isn't finalized yet, which is why I'm complaining about it NOW when they might still do something about it.

Dude.. I don't PvP much, and as such.. could care less about bolster. Check your facts before making assumptions and accusations.

And no.. you are not getting dual gearing again.. they removed it years ago and there is absolutely no reason to restore it.

If you think just complaining works to change a studios mind.... I have waterfront real estate in the Mohave Desert to offer you for sale. Well thought out, objective, data based, presentation of "a case for change" may influence change by the studio if what is present is actually well thought out, objective and data based. So far I have seen none of this from you in the discussion.

If that's what you really think then why aren't you arguing to not introduce a new tier at all?

Because as a player, I understand the boundaries between a player and a studio. Players do not dictate what is or is not done by a studio. Players certainly express their preferences and ideas, which a studio may or may not embrace. Put succinctly... none of us as players has the power to do what you suggest.

And do you honestly think there aren't people with more money than sense who won't buy the best gear ASAP? When have rich people ever been reasonable spenders? Of course they're going to buy the Ferrari they want but don't need.

Actually, in the context of playing a game like an MMO (as well as real life) .. wealthy players (either in game or in real life) follow the same principles that made them wealthy ---> have a plan to accumulate wealth, and spend their wealth wisely rather then frivolously. I happen to be wealthy in game as well as in real life, so I know where of I speak on this matter. You know what I have never done in an MMO?.... buy in game currency from an RMT. It defeats the entire premise of challenge within a game.. because economics is actually part of the total challenge... just like real life. You know who pisses away wealth? those that had it handed to them, or simply borrowed it or stole it, and have no regard for discipline, effort, and balance in life.

And.. you took my Ferrari statement completely out of context, which shows me you either do not want to read or are just anxious to stomp in a retort. Go back and read it in context if you even care to understand my viewpoint (which I honestly do not believe you do).

So if you're not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player, you should be against this gearing system because new level 70s will be able to get BiS gear by buying credits and then purchasing the gear from crafters. It might take a couple weeks once 5.10 releases for all the components to be for sale but that will be a thing that happens once people are routinely killing NiM GotM.

absolutly true, but this applies for all players, not just new ones.

this is indeed a big problem and probably will lead to p2w.

still, that doesnt affect the problem discussed in this thread, people claiming the conservative methods would be not viable for pvp players. which is simply not true.

True. But wouldn't it be logical for there to be some sort of upgrade path from 248 to 258?

would make sense, i agree. but since nobody kept their 248 shells because there was no reason for it, it would be hard to tell them that you need these shells to get 258.

maybe there is a way with 248 armor-mods s.o. could turn in.

I'd like to know how much YOU pvp because you are literally clueless about how to play this game.

 

i'm going to repeat what I said in another tthread: Buy chestpoiece. Pull mods. Put in legacy chestpiece. Profit.

There isn't one single person in this entire game that has [or ever did] more PVP experience than she [Totemdancer] does and in 99.9% of those cases, a lot more.

You don't know more about PVP than her. She definitely does know more about PVP than you.

If you do ever meet her in a PVP match, I'd recommend running.

Just a statement of fact, nothing personal.

There isn't one single person in this entire game that has [or ever did] more PVP experience than she [Totemdancer] does and in 99.9% of those cases, a lot more.

 

You don't know more about PVP than her. She definitely does know more about PVP than you.

 

If you do ever meet her in a PVP match, I'd recommend running.

 

Just a statement of fact, nothing personal.

There is a flat out difference between knowing the intricacies of different classes / specs, which is valuable in terms of actual PvP battles ... And / But...

That does not mean, however, that those of us who do a mix don't understand the gearing system. We aren't talking advanced Euclidean Geometry here. It's pretty basic math. I think that if I PvP a couple hours a week, I can go toe to toe with Totem on the actual gearing system. There is a law of diminishing returns here.

Moreover, given that Totem has repeatedly conveyed false and inaccurate information about 5.10 it is no small wonder we point those out.

The latest exhibit was on reputation gains and how long a grind it is. She was just flat out wrong.

As you note, this is nothing personal. It is simple facts we are pointing out. And it is important for the broader community to understand and know that so they, we, and yes, even Totem, can offer the best feedback possible for BW to take into consideration.

Dasty

There isn't one single person in this entire game that has [or ever did] more PVP experience than she [Totemdancer] does and in 99.9% of those cases, a lot more.

 

You don't know more about PVP than her. She definitely does know more about PVP than you.

 

If you do ever meet her in a PVP match, I'd recommend running.

 

Just a statement of fact, nothing personal.

with that amount of experience i cant help but assume shes holding back facts on purpose to support her point.

you cant be that long around and missing out the fact that there is a way to work with multiple toons and repeat the same wrong worst case scenario calculation over and over again, or that reputation is legacy bound.

which makes it even worse and should be a hint to better not listen to her.

There is a flat out difference between knowing the intricacies of different classes / specs, which is valuable in terms of actual PvP battles.

 

That does not mean, however, that those of us who do a mix don't understand the gearing system. We aren't talking advanced Euclidean Geometry here. It's pretty basic math. I think that if I PvP a couple hours a week, I can go toe to with Totem on the actual gearing system. There is a law of diminishing returns here.

 

Moreover, given that Totem has repeatedly conveyed false and inaccurate information about 5.10 it is no small wonder we point those out.

 

The latest exhibit was on reputation gains and how long a grind it is. She was just flat out wrong.

 

As you note, this is nothing personal. It is simple facts we are pointing out. And it is important for the broader community to understand and know that so they, we, and yes, even Totem, can offer the best feedback possible for BW to take into consideration.

 

Dasty

Hey, that's fine, I'm not trying to get in the middle of your disagreements, quite honestly, a lot of people are confused about the new gearing because a lot of whats going around is speculative and with some PTS leaked info, which as we all know doesn't mean anything, they have changed things at the last minute before even after playtestiing is over and than the players have no idea why it than isn't like it was when tested.

I agree, there is a ton of misinformation going on right now, but, it's perfectly understandable why that is, you have 10 people saying 10 different things and people have a tendency to assume other people know better and thus they take what they than hear as truth and pass it on as truth, even tho it may not be heh

Shes a pure PVPer, she doesnt anything PVE, so certain things that you are saying, are in fact correct and she simply doesn't have you're mix of experience. That's why I reserved my comment soley regarding her PVP experience and expertise

I haven't made too many comments on the gearing system despite the fact I am a total gear hound. I LOVE gearing. I don't care how hard it is, how slow it is, where it is, I want it and I will get every last drop of it no matter what heh.

A lot of my opinions these things are very inconsistant with what the majority of PVPers hold.

No matter how this plays out, it doesn't matter to me at all. I don't care what the gearing options will actually end up being, for me, it's the ride, not the destination. Plus I am also sittting on nearly 60k in UCs and I also have NiM raiding experience, so, my position if very askewed from the majority on both sides, I also only play one character so that makes things a lot easier as well.

I am solely a PVPer now, but, I don't share some of the expectations a lot of PVPers hold, which makes my opinions unpopular among PVPers. I think that PVP is going to remain the best and fastest method of gearing and without question most certainly the cheapest.

I would dread doing NiM again, I would hate it, but, at least I have some more options and I don't mind doing PVE things in some measure. I don't care whether gear remains BIS for both PVE/PVP or if they are seperated again. Although I do think it would be better for PVPers and PVEersif they did have seperate gearing and it is certainly what the majority wants [at least pvpers]. So I don't take a position personally on any of it, I just would like to see as many people as possible happy with their experience because it benefits us all to have happier players and more players.

Most people hate grinding for gear, I live, kill and die for it heh. Nothing makes me happier.

Thing is, none of us know what it is going to be and we can't know until it drops and I just think it's too premature for anyone to tell anyone else they wrong about something that none of us yet know actually what it is yet.

Personally, I don't think BIS gearing should be easy to get, I don't think it should be fast, and I don't think there should be any price breaks, and I don't think it should available doing only casual play. every toon should have to go thru the same gearing process. That it takes a long time for BIS gear, that's not something PVPers are accustomed to or that they feel should be effecting outcomes in WZs and Arenas. Skill and only skill is the only thing they see as a valid reason or factor. I don't care either way, but I recognize they very much do and thusly, whatever the majority feels is the best/fairest way, I support, but not out of conviction, only solidarity. The best thing I think would be to bring back PVP gear.

The PVPer/Raider mentalities are incompatible and will never be reconciled, and in that I can speak from experience on both sides. That will never happen.

I just like to fight. Everything else, is details.

You do know that each purchase of 1 Crystal costs more than the first and you need 4 crystals per piece.

Ie

500/1000/1500/2000

Or it could be

500/1000/2000/4000

We exactly don’t know yet. All we do know is there will be an increase each time.

You be better off taking a few weeks and save on the cost,

You do realize that they haven't sent in stone the increase per crystals nor the max per week that you can buy so your comment is currently pointless until that information is released.

you are not supposed to reach BiS gear within 4 weeks as a new player in any game. that would be just plain stupid game design.

The game design went from alts being encouraged in PVP and conquest to alts being punished and making a once fun and dynamic gearing system into an "exciting" RNG-based heavy gearing grind that even after being tweaked and altered to fit more of what people wanted in the first place is still considered subpar and not fun. Just these couple design changes to the game lost subs and made many players resentful. Is that being smart?

Wow, rude much. I actually said in the last post that you can do what you just accused me of not knowing. The problem is the time it takes. Which seems to be too hard for people to understand.

 

But I’ll answer your question because you asked so politely. I’ve been playing between 15-40 hours of pvp a week since the game was launched. I’ve more time in pvp than most people playing the entire game these days.

Sorry Totem. I just realized you are not who I thought you were. Apologies

That doesn't mean you are right You should definitley re-read jdasts posts.

Game will be fine.

Sorry Totem. I just realized you are not who I thought you were. Apologies

 

That doesn't mean you are right You should definitley re-read jdasts posts.

Game will be fine.

Apology accepted.

Yes, I think I did make a mistake with the reputation thing. It’s been a long time since I cared or bothered to do anything with reputation and I forgot it was legacy bound. The last time I was trying to max a reputation was when Section X was released.

I still firmly believe the extra grind will be detrimental to the game and I think a vast number of pvpers are on the verge of leaving if it goes ahead as they stated.

As pointed out by many here, not just myself, not everyone has 50k worth of UCs. I think those people that do have them are in the minority as everyone I speak to who have more than 5 Alts they are trying to gear has less than 10k or in my situation, only 2k.

A lot of the arguments about pvpers being able to gear fast seem to be based on these people who have stock piles of UCs, when that isn’t the case for most pvpers.

My maths wasn’t faulty. You do only get 20 UCs per win or 8 UCs per loss in reg 8v8.

If you average out win/loss over 100 matches as being 50/50 it equals 1400.

100 matches x 10 mins each = 1000 mins or 16.66 hours for 1400 UCs average

200 matches x 10 mins each = 2000 mins or 33.33 hours for 2800 UCs average

300 matches x 10 mins each = 3000 mins or 50 hours for 4200 UCs average

Of course you get a small stipends of UCs for doing the weekly, but the reward is really only the equivalent of winning 3 matches and losing 2. That’s 5 matches out of 100 and equal to 50mins.

People are also saying you can use your Alts to buy crystals to keep the cost down. Ok, well let’s consider it from this perspective.

It takes 4 Crystal to buy the gear piece. I think we all agree on that.

If you only pvp, the only way you will get the crystals are from UCs or if the pvp weekly comes up in the rotation for a week.

If you are trying to keep the UC costs down and not waste them buying the crystals as the price increases, then you would be smart to stop once you got 1 or 2.

If you get 1 or 2 crystals a week buying them with UCs, it will still take 2 to 4 weeks to buy a piece of gear on that Alt.

But unless you have the time to do 100-300 matches a week, you will soon run out of UCs and it won’t matter how many Alts you have because you won’t have enough UCs to spread around.

If you only play 20 hours a week, you will probably only average around 100 games because you have wait times and other interruptions while you’re logged in. That means you’ll roughly get 1400 UCs from matches and a few extra for the weekly. Which won’t even be enough to buy 3 crystals at 500 UCs across 3 Alts.

Even if you did 200 matches, you’re only going to be able to afford 5 crystals at 500 UCs across 5 Alts.

The only pvpers that will be able to gear as fast as people are stating will be those with a stock pile of UCs or people who play 40-60 hours of pvp a week and those people are in the minority. You don’t base a gear system on a minority and that is the problem with this whole idea.

Bioware have based it on a minority. The MM people who it’s aimed at, are less than 10% of the players base. I would even hazard a guess, they are less than 5%.

Then you have the other small percentage of players that will benefit from this gearing the most. The super rich and the people who’ve stock piled UCs because they don’t play more than 1-2 Alts to gear.

All 3 groups would be lucky to represent 15% of the population and the last 2 groups aren’t even the intended groups.

This is how this gearing system will work out for players in descending order of fastest to slowest. I’ve not included hours played because then it becomes too convoluted. I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.

1. Dedicated MM Raiders who also pvp and craft

2. Dedicated MM Raiders who craft

3. Dedicated MM Raider who also pvp

4. Dedicated MM Raiders

5. Pvp players with a massive stock pile of UCs will be able to gear one character fast (not exactly sure where they fit in here)

6. Pve daily farmers who pvp and are super rich and craft

7. Super rich players who do what ever content

8. Pve daily farmers who pvp

9. Pve daily farmers

10. Pvp players (who dont have a stock pile of UCs)

11. Pvp players trying to gear multiple Alts

12. Super casual players

13. New players

What I’ve noticed in this thread is that most or all of the people stating that it will be fast to gear in pvp, don’t fall into group 10 or 11.

What I dont understand about people in this game is when the most down trodden of any player group (at that time) voices an opinion to get their far share, all those with more are the first to argue they don’t need it it or that it’s not that bad.

It seems to always be about those that have not wanting those who don’t, to have their fair share. Wether it’s group people needing people to play with or solo people wanting solo access to Operations or pve operations guys wanting more raids or story people wanting more story or pvpers wanting more maps.,, etc etc... including needing gear to pvp with.

Every other group who is fine will have some champions jumping up and down saying they don’t need it, I don’t know if they are trolling, being selfish or just love to argue. But most of the time they will say no and make reasons why so they don’t have to share dev time or their part of the game is fine, why do others need anything. They don’t take into account other players who play differently to themselves. (I’ll even admit to being guilty of that in the past)

This has been going on since the game’s inception, why can’t we all accept that the game should be fair for everyone to play it how they like or that sometimes things need to change so people can play the game as it’s intended, ie pvpers need the best gear available in pvp to make it skill vs skill, wether that’s dedicated pvp gear or the best BiS pve gear.

If you dont pvp and dont understand why pvpers need the best gear or why it’s important to for them to gear up fast and not grind, why are you even commenting in a thread that doesn’t concern you. What does it matter to you if they change the gearing system to make it faster for pvpers? That’s all we are asking. We aren’t trying to take away from you or make it harder for you. We aren’t trying to take away from the MM Raiders, we just want to be able to play skill vs skill pvp without a stupid gear grind that only creates a gear discrepancy between those that have and those that don’t.

If Bioware doesn’t implement change to how pvpers gear, wether it’s how fast it is to get gear or Bolster or bringing back pvp gear, this grind as it stand will kill pvp. That is my argument, nothing more, I only bothered to show the numbers because it seems that is the only way people get it. Even when I prove the numbers, people who don’t pvp, find a way to discredit them.

The game design went from alts being encouraged in PVP and conquest to alts being punished and making a once fun and dynamic gearing system into an "exciting" RNG-based heavy gearing grind that even after being tweaked and altered to fit more of what people wanted in the first place is still considered subpar and not fun. Just these couple design changes to the game lost subs and made many players resentful. Is that being smart?

Exactly. It also degraded the quality of pvp and player skills. You and I know why that is, but I’m assuming the non pvpers don’t.

You do realize that they haven't sent in stone the increase per crystals nor the max per week that you can buy so your comment is currently pointless until that information is released.

No, we don’t know, I stated as much in that post you quoted. I’m commenting on what Bioware have announced and why it’s not good. That is the point of this thread, to make sure they don’t go ahead with the system they stated.

I can’t see how it’s pointless to show what it will be like if they do go ahead. If you want to wait around and “Hope” they dont do it, be my guest. But everyone whose played this game for awhile know Bioware don’t back track without pressure. If you wait for it to release, they may never back track or if they do, it will take 9 months of tiny increments.

Bioware are renowned for not backing down and they never admit mistakes. Waiting till something that seems bad is implimented is like jumping out of a plane without a parachute and hoping the ground will be soft.

Apology accepted.

 

Yes, I think I did make a mistake with the reputation thing. It’s been a long time since I cared or bothered to do anything with reputation and I forgot it was legacy bound. The last time I was trying to max a reputation was when Section X was released.

 

I still firmly believe the extra grind will be detrimental to the game and I think a vast number of pvpers are on the verge of leaving if it goes ahead as they stated.

 

As pointed out by many here, not just myself, not everyone has 50k worth of UCs. I think those people that do have them are in the minority as everyone I speak to who have more than 5 Alts they are trying to gear has less than 10k or in my situation, only 2k.

A lot of the arguments about pvpers being able to gear fast seem to be based on these people who have stock piles of UCs, when that isn’t the case for most pvpers.

 

My maths wasn’t faulty. You do only get 20 UCs per win or 8 UCs per loss in reg 8v8.

If you average out win/loss over 100 matches as being 50/50 it equals 1400.

 

100 matches x 10 mins each = 1000 mins or 16.66 hours for 1400 UCs average

200 matches x 10 mins each = 2000 mins or 33.33 hours for 2800 UCs average

300 matches x 10 mins each = 3000 mins or 50 hours for 4200 UCs average

 

Of course you get a small stipends of UCs for doing the weekly, but the reward is really only the equivalent of winning 3 matches and losing 2. That’s 5 matches out of 100 and equal to 50mins.

 

People are also saying you can use your Alts to buy crystals to keep the cost down. Ok, well let’s consider it from this perspective.

It takes 4 Crystal to buy the gear piece. I think we all agree on that.

If you only pvp, the only way you will get the crystals are from UCs or if the pvp weekly comes up in the rotation for a week.

If you are trying to keep the UC costs down and not waste them buying the crystals as the price increases, then you would be smart to stop once you got 1 or 2.

If you get 1 or 2 crystals a week buying them with UCs, it will still take 2 to 4 weeks to buy a piece of gear on that Alt.

But unless you have the time to do 100-300 matches a week, you will soon run out of UCs and it won’t matter how many Alts you have because you won’t have enough UCs to spread around.

If you only play 20 hours a week, you will probably only average around 100 games because you have wait times and other interruptions while you’re logged in. That means you’ll roughly get 1400 UCs from matches and a few extra for the weekly. Which won’t even be enough to buy 3 crystals at 500 UCs across 3 Alts.

Even if you did 200 matches, you’re only going to be able to afford 5 crystals at 500 UCs across 5 Alts.

 

The only pvpers that will be able to gear as fast as people are stating will be those with a stock pile of UCs or people who play 40-60 hours of pvp a week and those people are in the minority. You don’t base a gear system on a minority and that is the problem with this whole idea.

Bioware have based it on a minority. The MM people who it’s aimed at, are less than 10% of the players base. I would even hazard a guess, they are less than 5%.

Then you have the other small percentage of players that will benefit from this gearing the most. The super rich and the people who’ve stock piled UCs because they don’t play more than 1-2 Alts to gear.

All 3 groups would be lucky to represent 15% of the population and the last 2 groups aren’t even the intended groups.

 

This is how this gearing system will work out for players in descending order of fastest to slowest. I’ve not included hours played because then it becomes too convoluted. I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.

1. Dedicated MM Raiders who also pvp and craft

2. Dedicated MM Raiders who craft

3. Dedicated MM Raider who also pvp

4. Dedicated MM Raiders

5. Pvp players with a massive stock pile of UCs will be able to gear one character fast (not exactly sure where they fit in here)

6. Pve daily farmers who pvp and are super rich and craft

7. Super rich players who do what ever content

8. Pve daily farmers who pvp

9. Pve daily farmers

10. Pvp players (who dont have a stock pile of UCs)

11. Pvp players trying to gear multiple Alts

12. Super casual players

13. New players

 

What I’ve noticed in this thread is that most or all of the people stating that it will be fast to gear in pvp, don’t fall into group 10 or 11.

 

What I dont understand about people in this game is when the most down trodden of any player group (at that time) voices an opinion to get their far share, all those with more are the first to argue they don’t need it it or that it’s not that bad.

It seems to always be about those that have not wanting those who don’t, to have their fair share. Wether it’s group people needing people to play with or solo people wanting solo access to Operations or pve operations guys wanting more raids or story people wanting more story or pvpers wanting more maps.,, etc etc... including needing gear to pvp with.

Every other group who is fine will have some champions jumping up and down saying they don’t need it, I don’t know if they are trolling, being selfish or just love to argue. But most of the time they will say no and make reasons why so they don’t have to share dev time or their part of the game is fine, why do others need anything. They don’t take into account other players who play differently to themselves. (I’ll even admit to being guilty of that in the past)

This has been going on since the game’s inception, why can’t we all accept that the game should be fair for everyone to play it how they like or that sometimes things need to change so people can play the game as it’s intended, ie pvpers need the best gear available in pvp to make it skill vs skill, wether that’s dedicated pvp gear or the best BiS pve gear.

 

If you dont pvp and dont understand why pvpers need the best gear or why it’s important to for them to gear up fast and not grind, why are you even commenting in a thread that doesn’t concern you. What does it matter to you if they change the gearing system to make it faster for pvpers? That’s all we are asking. We aren’t trying to take away from you or make it harder for you. We aren’t trying to take away from the MM Raiders, we just want to be able to play skill vs skill pvp without a stupid gear grind that only creates a gear discrepancy between those that have and those that don’t.

If Bioware doesn’t implement change to how pvpers gear, wether it’s how fast it is to get gear or Bolster or bringing back pvp gear, this grind as it stand will kill pvp. That is my argument, nothing more, I only bothered to show the numbers because it seems that is the only way people get it. Even when I prove the numbers, people who don’t pvp, find a way to discredit them.

You flat out got proven wrong and are now trying to turn the narrative on us. A simple apology would have sufficed.

The issue, as Andryah, I and many others have pointed out is the following: Yes, gearing is slow, but it is slow across the board. Given that you are most interested in PvP it is the issue of PARITY that should concern you most.

But the FACT you gloss over the flat out misrepresentations you convey is galling. Frankly, shameful.

Oh will you please show me the app you are using to determine how much I PvP? Oh, and can you answer how if I only PvP 5 or so hours a week I don't understand the gearing system?

Thanks!

Dasty

You flat out got proven wrong and are now trying to turn the narrative on us. A simple apology would have sufficed.

 

The issue, as Andryah, I and many others have pointed out is the following: Yes, gearing is slow, but it is slow across the board. Given that you are most interested in PvP it is the issue of PARITY that should concern you most.

 

But the FACT you gloss over the flat out misrepresentations you convey is galling. Frankly, shameful.

 

Oh will you please show me the app you are using to determine how much I PvP? Oh, and can you answer how if I only PvP 5 or so hours a week I don't understand the gearing system?

 

Thanks!

 

Dasty

What’s an app got to do with anything.

I’ve nothing to apologise to you. I’ve not been 100% wrong and you’ve not been 100% right. I made one mistake is all, the rest of my logic is sound and so are my numbers.

Unless you’ve got some other numbers I don’t know about for getting more UCs per match and how long it takes to get them.

And please point out what I’ve misrepresented? I would like to know. You’re inflammatory posts calling me shameful and galling aren’t needed. I’ve not once called you out or tried to make this personal, if you e taken it that way, then I apologise for that. But calling me out to make a personal attack isn’t needed and I would ask you to stop or edit your posts.