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Do the devs even play pvp?


TrixxieTriss

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No. /5char

 

yearly reminder

 

Every time someone links that video I feel obliged to say, playing while on stream with hundreds of people watching is different to playing in your bedroom.

 

Playing while hundreds of people criticise you is also different.

 

So is playing while someone to your side asks you questions continuously.

 

Several "top tier" players mentioned how different duelling during a URC tournament was because they felt they pressure from all the eyes on them.

 

Also, being good at PvP is not a prerequisite to designing PvP. Messi is a great soccer player, should he be running FIFA? Lewis Hamilton is a great driver, should he be designing the engines for F1 cars?

 

TLDR: That video is stupid and proves nothing other than you're a bell end.

Edited by snave
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I agree with Snave. Being good at pvp has nothing to do this topic.

 

The question is, do they understand how the classes work in pvp because I’m starting to doubt the people coming up with these ideas even understand the rotations in pve or resource management, let alone pvp, which adds more complexity to class tactics, resource management and priorities.

 

Why would any Fury Mara use the combo in that article to launch an attack when it’s essential to build up rage using leap, etc.

This is no disrespect to Dan either. He is obviously being given this sort of bad info from people in Bioware who make this crap up.

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Yeah, but they really should consider having an actual pvp'er on the dev team. It's as clear as day that there are serious dev raiders these days. With the pvp updates we got this year, it seems unlikely they have any hard core pvp'ers. But I'm glad they tried -- they did far more than any other previous dev team for pvp. Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I quite liked the little explanations on that thread, if they play it, I guess they must do, just at a mediocre level

I can’t say anything though as I’m not a great player but I still have fun pvping most of the time so will enjoy testing out the new bonuses/tacs 😁

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I agree with Snave. Being good at pvp has nothing to do this topic.

 

The question is, do they understand how the classes work in pvp because I’m starting to doubt the people coming up with these ideas even understand the rotations in pve or resource management, let alone pvp, which adds more complexity to class tactics, resource management and priorities.

 

Why would any Fury Mara use the combo in that article to launch an attack when it’s essential to build up rage using leap, etc.

This is no disrespect to Dan either. He is obviously being given this sort of bad info from people in Bioware who make this crap up.

 

That article is literally there to give you the flavour of the class. The amount of over-analysis on these forums is ridiculous.

 

Yeah, but they really should consider having an actual pvp'er on the dev team. It's as clear as day that there are serious dev raiders these days. With the pvp updates we got this year, it seems pretty clear that they don't have any hard core pvp'ers. But I'm glad they tried -- they did far more than any other dev team for pvp.

 

Nothing is a clear indicator that they don't PvP. Knowing how to fix a problem and being allowed to change it is not the same thing and if you've worked for a company with more than 3 employees you'll know how much of a problem "red tape" and communication can be.

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The question is, do they understand how the classes work in pvp because I’m starting to doubt the people coming up with these ideas even understand the rotations in pve or resource management, let alone pvp, which adds more complexity to class tactics, resource management and priorities.

 

Why would any Fury Mara use the combo in that article to launch an attack when it’s essential to build up rage using leap, etc.

This is no disrespect to Dan either. He is obviously being given this sort of bad info from people in Bioware who make this crap up.

 

I suspect it has something to do with them coming up what a narrative for the set bonuses and tacticals.

 

Yeah, but they really should consider having an actual pvp'er on the dev team. It's as clear as day that there are serious dev raiders these days. With the pvp updates we got this year, it seems unlikely they have any hard core pvp'ers. But I'm glad they tried -- they did far more than any other previous dev team for pvp.

 

To be honest, it is hard to determine whether something posted on class balance is from someone whining or someone's valid opinion. I'm pretty sure in the last 5 months I've seen some Juggs Op, Stealth dps nerfs, and a buff gs.

Edited by UltraFlashStar
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Nothing is a clear indicator that they don't PvP. Knowing how to fix a problem and being allowed to change it is not the same thing and if you've worked for a company with more than 3 employees you'll know how much of a problem "red tape" and communication can be.

 

What are you saying? Is MikeB a hard core pvper? I thought he was some sort of exploit admin.

 

It doesn't matter, I guess. The pvp community won't be happy with anything BW does, TBH -- more so than other gameplay types.

 

 

To be honest, it is hard to determine whether something posted on class balance is from someone whining or someone's valid opinion. I'm pretty sure in the last 5 months I've seen some Juggs Op, Stealth dps nerfs, and a buff gs.

 

Maybe pvp class balance doesn't get as much "weight" as it should compared to PVE & Operations.

 

 

Oh well... as long as the 6.0 pvp meta is different, I will be relatively happy. It seems like it will be.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Also, being good at PvP is not a prerequisite to designing PvP. Messi is a great soccer player, should he be running FIFA? Lewis Hamilton is a great driver, should he be designing the engines for F1 cars?

 

TLDR: That video is stupid and proves nothing other than you're a bell end.

 

While I agree that getting spectated and asked questions can add pressure and cause someone to not perform well, but this guy clearly does not know how to play. Honestly it looks as if this is his first time playing this class. This analogy about Messi doesn't make sense to me because the guy in the video IS in charge of pvp aspects of the game while also playing the game mostly through pvp according to him. If the guy running FIFA was also playing for a team would you not expect his participation in playing the game to not influence his decision making somehow? A better question is if the guy in charge of FIFA rules and regulations also had to be a player and you had to choose between someone like Messi or someone that has never touched a ball in their life and has no knowledge of the game but their buddies asked them to play pickup games on Tuesday nights who would you prefer?

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/sigh, snave don't make excuses for them. It is one thing to say you perform less well under pressure, it is another to perform that badly when you are in charge of pvp. It is not a question of a little pressure, it is the big picture. There are several things that have happened every expansion which if the dev did pvp on a regular basis with average skill level they would never have launched 5.0 merc. No one in the right mind would have. They wouldn't have left enet alone for so long, they wouldn't have straight killed solo dps pt performance... they wouldn't have broken Jugg ED for so long. This is all a big picture that that video, made so long ago still illustrates today. IF, they pvp it is not on a regular basis and certainly not enough to properly balance this game. It would be vastly easy to make all abilitys perform differently in pvp (cds, duration, number%s) but they don't. Just look at what krea pointed out a day ago, since launch you can stealth out on op/sin and do whatever you want to your gear including resetting set bonus.

 

Excusing bioware cuz swtor is an ok game is not the right way to go about it. You don't take incompetence just because they don't listen. You find a way to make them listen or you accept they are bad at it, and either leave or deal with it.

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Have you guys read the latest “day in the life” of Mara/Sent?

 

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20191017

 

Their understanding of this class in pvp just blows my mind.

 

Pretty much all their 'day in the life of' shows a laughable lack of understanding of how PVP works, or how matches go.

 

It's as if the class under the spotlight remembers all their abilities, which are all off CD and the enemy player is caught alone without any DCDs, friends, or means of escape.

 

SMH - Might as well have got a child to pen a few things instead of this drivel.

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The way I see it the Devs got some pressure on them to make the game different or more attractive. Yet the way they have done this was not the most best one. They have introduced new set bonuses, which is the first issue (they could have left the old ones) and with that they introduce even more "kind of setbonuses" that change the way your abilities work.

 

The changes they added sometimes do not make much sense and I really figure that people will find which are the best things to use and everyone will only be using those, nothing else, which will result in all the Devs efforts to be in vain. There will surely be something OP for PVP and everyone will go with it.

 

I am not sure anyone in Bioware plays the game, besides Keith (which I am surprised as he is..... not the youngest person). We know the theory from Eric that they have 1-2 hours per day time at work to play the game etc, but question is if they really use this and what they do in the game.

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I suspect it has something to do with them coming up what a narrative for the set bonuses and tacticals..

 

Yeah, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head because some of those tacticals and set bonuses are wacky (being nice). I think they might be justifying those decisions.

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I am not sure anyone in Bioware plays the game, besides Keith (which I am surprised as he is..... not the youngest person). We know the theory from Eric that they have 1-2 hours per day time at work to play the game etc, but question is if they really use this and what they do in the game.

 

Eric is a self admitted GTN trader when he gets on. I wouldn’t really count that as playing much,

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The way I see it the Devs got some pressure on them to make the game different or more attractive. Yet the way they have done this was not the most best one. They have introduced new set bonuses, which is the first issue (they could have left the old ones) and with that they introduce even more "kind of setbonuses" that change the way your abilities work.

 

The changes they added sometimes do not make much sense and I really figure that people will find which are the best things to use and everyone will only be using those, nothing else, which will result in all the Devs efforts to be in vain. There will surely be something OP for PVP and everyone will go with it.

 

I am not sure anyone in Bioware plays the game, besides Keith (which I am surprised as he is..... not the youngest person). We know the theory from Eric that they have 1-2 hours per day time at work to play the game etc, but question is if they really use this and what they do in the game.

 

I think they have limited resources and they don't allocate a lot to PVP. The majority goes into gearing, story and mostly PVE stuff. This is what the majority of the players play in this game. PvP is just a small part of the game with a very vocal community and ranked being even smaller...

 

There have been a lot of class design choices that just make no sense like giving snipers phase walk.. I'm not saying classes don't need love, but this one was already very strong. Same for Vanilla 5.0 mercs....

 

I see no point in complaining anymore. For me it seems an utter waste of time because for all the complaining and feedback that they got over the years, we'll still get what you all saw on PTS for 6.0... Just enjoy the game and let it go.

 

Only time will tell if what they've planned for the next xpack will appeal to the players or not.....

Edited by DavidAtkinson
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Constant nerfing of Sins proved that at least, they dont know/don't play that class at all.

 

Going from nerfing Hatred spec in 3.0, to buffing Deception in 5.0 in terms of dps (which was a good thing) to nerfing and totally breaking Deception dps/burst in 5.x just shows how much they don't know the Sin class in general.

 

Nerfing Sins will happen in 6.0, not in DPS department, it's nerfing the Force Speed utility, which removes 60% of absorb damage and giving 25% DR for DPS specs, while tank spec gets 10 Force points (ROFL).

 

Why they did that is beyond me...

 

So to be honest, all those articles aren't weird for me at all, person who wrote it is just a journalist and probably doesn't even play the game. The Dev department is what worries me.

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Constant nerfing of Sins proved that at least, they dont know/don't play that class at all.

 

Going from nerfing Hatred spec in 3.0, to buffing Deception in 5.0 in terms of dps (which was a good thing) to nerfing and totally breaking Deception dps/burst in 5.x just shows how much they don't know the Sin class in general.

 

Nerfing Sins will happen in 6.0, not in DPS department, it's nerfing the Force Speed utility, which removes 60% of absorb damage and giving 25% DR for DPS specs, while tank spec gets 10 Force points (ROFL).

 

Why they did that is beyond me...

 

So to be honest, all those articles aren't weird for me at all, person who wrote it is just a journalist and probably doesn't even play the game. The Dev department is what worries me.

 

The Force Speed nerf was a PvE nerf primarily. And even though it was nerfed for DPS as well, it's not that big of a nerf. And sin tanks in PvP will still be able to perform their roles well enough to be competitive.

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That article is literally there to give you the flavour of the class. The amount of over-analysis on these forums is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Nothing is a clear indicator that they don't PvP. Knowing how to fix a problem and being allowed to change it is not the same thing and if you've worked for a company with more than 3 employees you'll know how much of a problem "red tape" and communication can be.

 

Nothing is a clear indicator that they DO pvp. Balancing pvp is more than just numbers on a spreadsheet.

 

I think, as a part of their job, the pvp balance team needs to stream once a week as a premade for an hour. They can start off in regs, but they need to demonstrate at least average regstar skills, and eventually compete at a decent level in group ranked.

 

If they know what they're doing, they can show us what the situation is. If they don't know what they're doing, we can show them what the situation is.

 

Even if they can't fix the situation, at least they'd be on the same page as the players.

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The Force Speed nerf was a PvE nerf primarily. And even though it was nerfed for DPS as well, it's not that big of a nerf. And sin tanks in PvP will still be able to perform their roles well enough to be competitive.

 

How do think decep-sins will fare in 6.0?

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These articles are written by writers without ANY feedback from Combat Team. That was said by the Combat Team themselves.

 

They are clearly just meant to showcase the "cool" things you can do with new items. They are in no way relevant to what actually happens in the meta/game as a whole.

Edited by Equeliber
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As far as it looks they will do very badly....

 

What are you talking about. Solo Ranked on the PTS was swarming with Deception sins, and they were topping DPS in many games, with unbelievably high burst and double vanish. In regular WZs, the story was very similar. How did you ever get this idea? They were literally one of the strongest specs. So much so, I expect one of their set bonuses to be nerfed before 6.0 hits live, which will make them less broken, but still incredibly strong.

Edited by Giliodor
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What are you talking about. Solo Ranked on the PTS was swarming with Deception sins, and they were topping DPS in many games, with unbelievably high burst and double vanish. In regular WZs, the story was very similar. How did you ever get this idea? They were literally one of the strongest specs. So much so, I expect one of their set bonuses to be nerfed before 6.0 hits live, which will make them less broken, but still incredibly strong.

 

My feeling is that they will be much better than marauders... ;)

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