Leveling a jug and looking for tank/DPS hybrids.

Most know of the traditional Immortal Vengeance spec... but while playing with the spec I made THIS. It's just a tweak on the immortal vengeance spec but just wondering what's wrong with it or if people are using it.

Not having played a jug at the 50 level there are things I'm probably not considering and definitely things I'm not familiar with as far as how they play. It looks good to me on paper and IMO looks better on paper. The original immortal vengeance spec looks like it sacrifices a lot of DPS simply just to get the unchanneled force choke. Would resources be a problem? On paper it doesn't seem like a fair trade off.

Or THIS

And if you're wondering why I put points into the accuracy, I like to spec into these when possible in order to stack more main stat/power. In this case... strength. Also curious about any tanks spec'ing into retaliation. Also looks like a waste of points on paper.

Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Leveling a jug and looking for tank/DPS hybrids.

 

Most know of the traditional Immortal Vengeance spec... but while playing with the spec I made THIS. It's just a tweak on the immortal vengeance spec but just wondering what's wrong with it or if people are using it.

 

Not having played a jug at the 50 level there are things I'm probably not considering and definitely things I'm not familiar with as far as how they play. It looks good to me on paper and IMO looks better on paper. The original immortal vengeance spec looks like it sacrifices a lot of DPS simply just to get the unchanneled force choke. Would resources be a problem? On paper it doesn't seem like a fair trade off.

 

Or THIS

 

And if you're wondering why I put points into the accuracy, I like to spec into these when possible in order to stack more main stat/power. In this case... strength. Also curious about any tanks spec'ing into retaliation. Also looks like a waste of points on paper.

 

Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

IMO?

I probably would think about moving the 2pts from impale bleed to rage tree for sweep buff. And move 1 point out of the smash armor reduce and put it into heavy handed, but that's just me, meng... look pretty good though. Especially the extra 15% reduce on ErD..

Leveling a jug and looking for tank/DPS hybrids.

 

Most know of the traditional Immortal Vengeance spec... but while playing with the spec I made THIS. It's just a tweak on the immortal vengeance spec but just wondering what's wrong with it or if people are using it.

 

Not having played a jug at the 50 level there are things I'm probably not considering and definitely things I'm not familiar with as far as how they play. It looks good to me on paper and IMO looks better on paper. The original immortal vengeance spec looks like it sacrifices a lot of DPS simply just to get the unchanneled force choke. Would resources be a problem? On paper it doesn't seem like a fair trade off.

 

Or THIS

 

And if you're wondering why I put points into the accuracy, I like to spec into these when possible in order to stack more main stat/power. In this case... strength. Also curious about any tanks spec'ing into retaliation. Also looks like a waste of points on paper.

 

Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Also Retaliation is useless if you don't stay in soresu & spec Blade Barricade.

Leveling a jug and looking for tank/DPS hybrids.

 

Most know of the traditional Immortal Vengeance spec... but while playing with the spec I made THIS. It's just a tweak on the immortal vengeance spec but just wondering what's wrong with it or if people are using it.

 

Not having played a jug at the 50 level there are things I'm probably not considering and definitely things I'm not familiar with as far as how they play. It looks good to me on paper and IMO looks better on paper. The original immortal vengeance spec looks like it sacrifices a lot of DPS simply just to get the unchanneled force choke. Would resources be a problem? On paper it doesn't seem like a fair trade off.

 

Or THIS

 

And if you're wondering why I put points into the accuracy, I like to spec into these when possible in order to stack more main stat/power. In this case... strength. Also curious about any tanks spec'ing into retaliation. Also looks like a waste of points on paper.

 

Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

I've played Guardian Def/Vigi since Launch as more of a Off-Tank since launch, so I can say that there are two things I would remove (Because of my own playstyle) is Eviscerate and Draining Scream. Since their very low-power DoT's even with them being free off your normal rotation. I know, free damage is free damage is free damage. But at the cost of 4 points I could put into something else. (Trying somehow to get Sonic Barrier. Since I would run Soresu with either build, and having a free shield for a certain amount of my health helps me be tankier.)

Just my opinion.

Thanks for the feedback guys... pretty much ignore the first one. I'm leaning towards the 16/25/0 that I posted towards the bottom of the post. Slightly different than the original immortal vengeance spec...

I've being playing around with the tree all day looking at options.

I crack out on these things when leveling a character. I need to block myself from TORhead.

Thanks for the feedback guys... pretty much ignore the first one. I'm leaning towards the 16/25/0 that I posted towards the bottom of the post. Slightly different than the original immortal vengeance spec...

 

I've being playing around with the tree all day looking at options.

 

I crack out on these things when leveling a character. I need to block myself from TORhead.

Tanks suppose to have 120mm cannons(sweep) right?

Well put it this way. As a tank in PvP I see no way at putting less than 11/12 points in the tank tree. You need to at least get 40% reduce to do viable tanking. I go up to 16 because the no channel stasis/choke is VERY valuable, since it can't be KBd/STd/Mezd? You can actually do followup attack/heal/debuffs and MOVE (very underrated potion of this) if you spec it, so I spec 16 in the tank tree. I also am currently using the focus/rage tree for the sweep proc(singularity, not autocrit). That in conjunction with the no channel stasis is pretty balanced in my book for an tank...

 

 

Tanks suppose to have 120mm cannons(sweep) right?

I'm leaning towards this right now... I keep playing with it but even tho I can see the benefit of the immortal/rage hybrid... especially right now. I'm so tired of rage spec. Not going against it... but playing it. It's just not.... fun. I'll probably play around with my spec a but once I hit 50... I still have a long way to go but I always like to look at my options and get opinions.

As a 16/0/25 rage tank.... how much is smash hitting for?

I'm leaning towards this right now... I keep playing with it but even tho I can see the benefit of the immortal/rage hybrid... especially right now. I'm so tired of rage spec. Not going against it... but playing it. It's just not.... fun. I'll probably play around with my spec a but once I hit 50... I still have a long way to go but I always like to look at my options and get opinions.

 

As a 16/0/25 rage tank.... how much is smash hitting for?

I'm putting together a rage/immo tank hybrid like you guys are suggesting, and I'm not entirely sure what the point is. Going 16/0/25 like Ugly suggested is enough for shockwave and autocrit, but you do have to spend at least one point on a useless skill, as choke is unchanneled, making strangulate pointless, and the only other skills require Shii-Cho. Also, nothing in the 5th tier buffs sweep, so you might as well stop at 22 points in rage, unless you plan to play in Shii-Cho, but doing so kills any illusion of tanking, and you might as well go full rage.

As far as I can see, the best rage/immo hybrid would be something like 19/0/22.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GrhdzzMZZGrorzfM.2

As for how hard smash would hit, I really have no clue. Would you even play a build like this in tank or dps gear???

And honestly, I still do not see the point of it. The traditional 16/25/0 works because there is so much in Vengeance that is great for tanks. You gain damage capability, without significantly hurting your ability to effectively tank. Rage doesn't work like that. You gain damage, but give up basically anything that makes you a good tank. Unstoppable is an ABSOLUTE MUST FOR ANY JUGG TANK!!!! The rage tree gives nothing to help tank, except for possibly Obliterate as another leap, but Unstoppable is still far superior.

The way I see it, rage/immo hybrids are a seriously gimped tank, and a seriously gimped dps at the same time, leading to an overall pointless build. If there's something I've missed, feel free to show me.

As far as I know all hybrids run DPS gear with tank offhand.

As far as the rage things goes... stance swapping IS an option so that's something to keep in mind.

As far as I know all hybrids run DPS gear with tank offhand.

 

As far as the rage things goes... stance swapping IS an option so that's something to keep in mind.

If they are running dps gear with a shield, they are not tanks. They are dps looking for a tad more suvivability. Playing either full Veng or full Rage is Soresu form accomplishes that role just fine. And yes you could stance swap in a rage/immo hybrid, but no matter what you're trying to do at any one time, the build will be bad at it. In Soresu, you'll be a bad tank, in Shii-Cho, you'll be a bad dps. It's just not worth gimping yourself in both roles. But if you really want a number on smash, given you have all the buffs etc, in dps gear I would guess maybe 4-5k smashes AT THE MOST. Geared targets will be much lower.

I'm putting together a rage/immo tank hybrid like you guys are suggesting, and I'm not entirely sure what the point is. Going 16/0/25 like Ugly suggested is enough for shockwave and autocrit, but you do have to spend at least one point on a useless skill, as choke is unchanneled, making strangulate pointless, and the only other skills require Shii-Cho. Also, nothing in the 5th tier buffs sweep, so you might as well stop at 22 points in rage, unless you plan to play in Shii-Cho, but doing so kills any illusion of tanking, and you might as well go full rage.

The pushback talent on the rage tree does do something.. It affects ability delay after a choke. So it does have some value. Also the Unstoppable thing is really only good for HB IMO. I decided to trade it for Obliterate because the root is valuable in HB too. Its a trade, and helps with getting into melee range and start the sweep proc. I just feel there is not point to Unstoppable if you can't do any decent attacks afterwards. I do agree though. I go 20 in Rage....

As for smash..... I smash around 4.5 on geared players and 5k+ on anything lower, but I also wear DPS gear and a Tank offhand (to get some shield chance) with DPS mods; running this, and I stay in Soresu for the most part..

If I am PuGin, having the ability to do some pretty good situational DPS, solo guard nodes, and cause healers massive butthurt, caters more to my style. To each his own though.....

If they are running dps gear with a shield, they are not tanks. They are dps looking for a tad more suvivability. Playing either full Veng or full Rage is Soresu form accomplishes that role just fine. And yes you could stance swap in a rage/immo hybrid, but no matter what you're trying to do at any one time, the build will be bad at it. In Soresu, you'll be a bad tank, in Shii-Cho, you'll be a bad dps. It's just not worth gimping yourself in both roles. But if you really want a number on smash, given you have all the buffs etc, in dps gear I would guess maybe 4-5k smashes AT THE MOST. Geared targets will be much lower.

But guard/taunt/DFCDs is what makes a tank a tank. The only thing in the tank tree worthy of PvP is 40% reduce... That's about it.

The point of DPS gear is to get more viable attacks. Like 6k Ravs/3k slash/4k+ dispatch.. Even in Soresu form... Its about "true balance" as with most hybrid spec, in my eyes...

Leveling a jug and looking for tank/DPS hybrids.

 

Most know of the traditional Immortal Vengeance spec... but while playing with the spec I made THIS. It's just a tweak on the immortal vengeance spec but just wondering what's wrong with it or if people are using it.

 

Not having played a jug at the 50 level there are things I'm probably not considering and definitely things I'm not familiar with as far as how they play. It looks good to me on paper and IMO looks better on paper. The original immortal vengeance spec looks like it sacrifices a lot of DPS simply just to get the unchanneled force choke. Would resources be a problem? On paper it doesn't seem like a fair trade off.

 

Or THIS

 

And if you're wondering why I put points into the accuracy, I like to spec into these when possible in order to stack more main stat/power. In this case... strength. Also curious about any tanks spec'ing into retaliation. Also looks like a waste of points on paper.

 

Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

This is what I used for tanking/dps hybrid for the longest time. Run in soresu so has good surv, and with MS procs, you can deal some serious burst. You can use either shield or focus, depending on situation.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500Rrh0zZfMrorhdzGZM.2