Jump to content

Game Update 7.4.1c coming April 3 ×

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

Recommended Posts

The premades are still ruining the whole WZ experiance.

 

Theres not a single chance in hell a PUG team can beat a premade team with powerhealers, voice comm, and all the uber gear they got from prior PUG stomping.

 

The PUG stomping gotta stop. PPl are quitting the game by the day beacuase of this.

 

This game will be over Before christmas if the premades are not removed.

 

I don't know about you, but they are in no way ruining it. They can be beaten as long as the pug is coordinated, hell just the other day we beat a premade with a pug (and I have also done it plenty of other times as well). Granted this is in the lower brackets of pvp, but my point still stands.

 

Also, most will just sit around and not try to lead the team to a victory. The whole point of these warzones is teamwork, and without that you get the recipe for failing. As of right now, you just seem like a kid on a temper tantrum.

 

My basic point is do something about it if you are upset. Going to post on the forums will do you no good in my view.

 

EDIT ---

 

I highly doubt the numbers are going down as I have seen an increase in new players, so your point is moot.

Edited by DisturbedMalak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

that they are a team, and playing in a team for month

 

Teamwork is what seperates the men from the boys. Nothing about level, gear, time spent playing, or ANYTHING has to do with teamwork except for skill. If people do not want to utilize all legal advantages they can, that's their fault, not mine, and they deserve to lose.

 

Bottom Line: Teamwork is not some unfair advantage. If you don't like being dependent upon the RNG to give you good teammates then group up.

 

if you are not better than 4 guys with a lot of experience in working as a team, then you are just too BAD for any kind of MMO

 

You shouldn't expect to outperform 4 other people alone. If you do, you are delusional. 4 players working with teamwork has nothing to do with their gear, level, or anything except for their skill. Are we seeing an italic pattern yet?

 

same abilities, on the same circumstances, just because you are better?

 

Do you mean abilities like.... level 10 vs level 29? Or ability like skilled ability? If the former, 55 bracket fixes this GG your point is dead.

 

If the latter, you fail to understand that ability and skill are the same thing, at least by my definition. The best teams are better than the second best teams because of their higher skill and ability. So when I beat another player it's because of my ability. No, our ability is not the same. Claiming that it should is like saying the best football team should be dispersed to even the playing field so everyone wins. Typical modern attitude.

 

every! group of 4 players will loose against an equally skilled group of 4 teamplayers

 

There is an outright contradiction in this statement. Teamwork is in and of itself skill in an MMO. You said here that the more skilled team out of 2 equally skilled teams would win. LOLWUT?

 

in a random match, your winning chances are 50%

 

Only if everyone is the same skill level. Which they're not, and should not be. Chances of winning are not 50%. And if winning is a probabilistic thing then there are MAJOR problems with this game. I don't want to flip a coin to see who wins. I want a fully skilled-base competition. In lowbies my win rate is nearly 100%. Because lowbies are atrociously bad. I don't get lucky, I don't group, they're just bad.

 

premades on the enemy side cut this rate almost by half. thats everything but fighting player versus player.

Take the best professional sports team and play the worst professional sports team. The win rate WILL NOT BE EQUAL AT ALL.

 

Yet clearly, it is a fair match. That's why these sports leagues haven't disbanded the best teams

 

TL;DR You are wrong and I am right.

Edited by Zunayson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, it would be more fair if my skills, my gear and my tactical awareness defines if I deliver a good or a bad game. It would be fair if I could improve by playing PvP, learning what class of enemies are priority in a given situation, improve by adapting my play-style and yes, even improve by getting better gear. Fair is when I get kicked my *** around by a better player and have the chance to learn from my fails in this situations.

 

What is unfair in my opinion is that I get whiped with the rest of my team, having the feeling that all my efforts are for naught. Unfair is when I see that my team gets focused by the same four enemies one after another while in a real random there would always be a spread of damage and some kind of chaotic situation. Unfair is when I get killed not because I am bad, but because they can force a micro-4vs1 upon me until I am dead and then switch to the next prey. When there is just nothing left to do but to accept that they will just kill you within 3-6 seconds if you are a threat to them.

 

And demotivating is when you stop after 10 games and got the feeling that these games feel like rigged, like that you don't have the same chance, that your skills and gear and combat awareness are completely irrelevant. That your teammates are leaving the game or standing around idle because they got the same feeling. That the only thing you can do is to give up and hope for the game when there is no premade group with the enemy team.

 

Maybe it gets better once I reach level 50+. Maybe it is better on other servers, perhaps somewhere else there are premade groups on republic side, balancing somewhat the pvp-clans on imperial side. Maybe maybe maybe. Right now I just can say that there are mmo's that offer a form of PvP where skills matter, here I just see groups of 4 players with a lot of experience slaughtering complete random groups of sub-50-beginners.

 

That is because you are playing a team-based game, and a decent team is using the most potent skill of all.

 

Teamwork. Which, just as you hate I hate also, is not entirely depentent based on your skill, your gear, your tactical awareness.

 

Unfortunately, teambased matches cannot be based on the individual. If they were, your teammates would be dependent on you, which would contradict our statement of being based on the individual.

 

Best bet is to pick up an FPS you've played for like 10 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ranked Solo Queue Arenas is coming very, very soon with 2.4

 

You all got what you whined for (a solo-only queue). The fact that it gives RWZ comms is a slap in the face to the competitive PvP community IMO.

 

It should be interesting to see what the next big excuse is for why bads lose all the time.

 

im thinking, "theres no backfill in arena" is the next big thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The premades are still ruining the whole WZ experiance.

 

Theres not a single chance in hell a PUG team can beat a premade team with powerhealers, voice comm, and all the uber gear they got from prior PUG stomping.

 

The PUG stomping gotta stop. PPl are quitting the game by the day beacuase of this.

 

This game will be over Before christmas if the premades are not removed.

 

Seems to me that the people moaning about premades are wanting a new bracket called "useless players only", where they can duel to their hearts content miles from any doors or turrets. Can't pass the huttball?? No worries, in this game, we just duel each other to death. Oh wait, arenas might be the answer for this gaming demographic.

 

It is not premades ruining warzones, it is useless players who don't know their arse from their elbow in a warzone. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It is not the opposition that is the problem generally.

 

FYI I pretty much PUG exclusively, since I am old and generally dislike guilds as I have zero wish to listen to kids telling me about their day at school or how much they hate their parents. Additionally I rarely use communication programmes, I am really not interested in listening to other people twittering on quite frankly, but that does not stop me being relatively efficient in warzones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is because you are playing a team-based game, and a decent team is using the most potent skill of all.

 

Teamwork. Which, just as you hate I hate also, is not entirely depentent based on your skill, your gear, your tactical awareness.

 

Unfortunately, teambased matches cannot be based on the individual. If they were, your teammates would be dependent on you, which would contradict our statement of being based on the individual.

 

Best bet is to pick up an FPS you've played for like 10 years.

 

Nope, you still don't get it.

 

Teamwork is the thing needed to win a game, and it should take some skill to get a random group of players with only keyboard as comms coordinated and working as a team for the next fight.

 

Mixing that with a premade group of players with the ability to use voicecomms and play in a well trained team is nothing about skills. It's just mixing different styles of teamwork, where one is just more effective and thus giving an advantage.

 

Players with equal skills will win more games if they play in the same 4-person group with voicecomms instead of going in alone. Skills don't matter in this gap. 4 bad players in a well oiled team will still be better than 4 bad players on their own with only keyboard as comms. Same goes for 4 good players.

 

And yes, maybe this problem isn't so obvious at level 55, but at level 1-30 and 30-54 it is a game-changer. A lot of guys are playing here for the first time, they still have to learn the map-layout, they yet don't know the name of the imperial class healer and thus can't identify him. Most of them will never learn because right now it is nearly impossible to play. In most games you will face around 5 players leaving early, sometimes getting refilled with new ones, sometimes not. In most games half the players will sit at a defense point (yepp, using the emote "sit") and get angry because the game will take longer if you cap one gun on your own after winning a 1vs1 with your level 32 smuggler against that level 45 inquisitor. Luckily it takes up to 5 minutes to get a "solo random" pvp-game going, otherwise a lot of people would use it as a passive income of xp and creds. Passive in form of "just sit around somewhere and make sure you hit "w" from time to time to not get autokicked.

 

Ah, and to your gibberish some posts above: Of course the win chances of a random game are 50%. Because statistically there is the same amount of bad players and self-pronounced pro's in both factions. The point is: Even if you would do nothing in a game but standing in a corner your winrate would not drop below 20%. It's just math.

Edited by Shakagra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Ah, and to your gibberish some posts above: Of course the win chances of a random game are 50%. Because statistically there is the same amount of bad players and self-pronounced pro's in both factions. The point is: Even if you would do nothing in a game but standing in a corner your winrate would not drop below 20%. It's just math.

 

 

Hah! This sentence is friggin clown shoes ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ranked Solo Queue Arenas is coming very, very soon with 2.4

 

You all got what you whined for (a solo-only queue). The fact that it gives RWZ comms is a slap in the face to the competitive PvP community IMO.

 

It should be interesting to see what the next big excuse is for why bads lose all the time.

 

Since 2.4 many 'pro' premades will faced other premades in ranked, and there will no easy farm pugs for easy commz anymore.

 

Perhaps, many of 'pro' since 2.4 just understand, how terribads they are when just meet real competition :rolleyes::o

Edited by TonyDragonflame
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you guys read this, keep this in mind of two things. You will not troll me and you will respect my post. Period. Now read.

 

Here is a simple solution to fix the issue for premades making it hell for solo que-ers.

 

Allow premades to queue for ranked or normal matches vs solo que-ers but prioritize premades to fight against premades first and not solo que-ers. Only if there are no premades to fight against say " your premade for example " then allow the premade to fight against the solo que-ers.

 

This would bring a lot of balance and fun back to both hardcore and casual players. Problem solved.

 

Reason why I suggest they do is this because I am a solo que-er mainly. I have done rated games before and I understand the steamrolling situation by being in a premade vs pugs. Yes it is nice and fun you win fast games, get lots of comms fast. Over and over again. In the end though, it causes instability in the gaming community and ruins the quality value in " long term " for pvp being a stable platform not just in this game but ANY MMO that offers pvp.

 

Now consider the other side of the coin. Being a pug for example, you'll never win vs a professional team of premades. You get at the most between 40-60 comms so it's about three times the work to get the required gear you need which takes much longer than normal and then you are fighting the same teams over and over again. Also you have a people constantly leaving and entering matches so it can between 5 - 6 solo que-ers vs the premade for most of the match.

 

Incase you guys really don't know why the took out 8 vs 8 and I'm glad they did is simple. An 4 vs 4 premade vs a 4 vs 4 solo que-ers has a much higher chance of losing a match even though it is pretty much impossible than a 8 vs 8 premade vs 8 vs 8 solo que-ers.

Edited by Captain-Luke
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They MUST fix this problem with premades.

It is hard enough to go against 4 people premades, 8 man premades are just impossible to take on. Most people just leave or randomly afk waiting for the game to end.

I don't want to complain that much since premades are rare during week time and by that I mean monday through thursday but once the weekend comes ( friday night, sat, sun ) you have a huge chance to go against a premade and that is damn annoying.

I know for one, that this past weekend I played WZ quite a lot and only won like 5 games ( in 3 days so yeah, go figure).

How are PUGS supposed to have a chance at winning against a team that roflstomps you with a perfect team build?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since 2.4 many 'pro' premades will faced other premades in ranked, and there will no easy farm pugs for easy commz anymore.

 

Perhaps, many of 'pro' since 2.4 just understand, how terribads they are when just meet real competition :rolleyes::o

 

This is a big bowl of wat.

 

Arenas are easy comms since you get ranked instead of regular. Plus not every premade is made up of equally skilled players so even the ones that don't fair to well in arenas wont really notice it after a while due to an actual matchmaking system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems to me that the people moaning about premades are wanting a new bracket called "useless players only", where they can duel to their hearts content miles from any doors or turrets. Can't pass the huttball?? No worries, in this game, we just duel each other to death. Oh wait, arenas might be the answer for this gaming demographic.

 

It is not premades ruining warzones, it is useless players who don't know their arse from their elbow in a warzone. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It is not the opposition that is the problem generally.

 

FYI I pretty much PUG exclusively, since I am old and generally dislike guilds as I have zero wish to listen to kids telling me about their day at school or how much they hate their parents. Additionally I rarely use communication programmes, I am really not interested in listening to other people twittering on quite frankly, but that does not stop me being relatively efficient in warzones.

 

You do realize most guilds, especially those that are typically decent at pvp tend to be adults right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have casual premades and hardcore premades, the casual ones are not really the problem, just group of guys in a guild who want to get in a few warzone matches... It's the hardcore pvp guilds that run setups like 3 smashers and a Scoundrel Healer or 3 Shadows and Scoundrel Healer, basically whatever the FOTM build are this is what they run with.... then add in the fact they are completely geared and use voice communication software to coordinate quickly.

 

Ideally these hardcore pvp'ers should of stuck to ranked PvP 8v8 matches but what we saw instead was they wanted to roll stomp everyone so they avoided the ranked matches and stuck with the regular warzones to go up against casual pvp'ers.... All they used ranked pvp for was to farm ranked comm's within their guild but creating two teams so they could gear up quickly once they were geared they just hung out in the regular warzones..

 

Bioware should of separated single que's from group que's to begin with, it would of solved a ton of problems. They are finally seeing the error they made and are separating single ques from group ques for Arenas... Although I will predict that hardcore pvp'ers will QQ about long que times for group 4v4 arenas because odds are 80% of pvp'ers will stick with the single que's since it will balance the teams out, where group arenas is going to be filled with team FOTM classes and builds running their pvp scripts and macros...

 

Bottom Line: I don't care if I win or lose, just as long as it's close..... Singe Que 4v4 Arenas seems to be the answer... Unless they add sinqle Que warzones I'll be sticking to arenas from here on in to get my pvp fix..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have casual premades and hardcore premades, the casual ones are not really the problem, just group of guys in a guild who want to get in a few warzone matches... It's the hardcore pvp guilds that run setups like 3 smashers and a Scoundrel Healer or 3 Shadows and Scoundrel Healer, basically whatever the FOTM build are this is what they run with.... then add in the fact they are completely geared and use voice communication software to coordinate quickly.

 

Ideally these hardcore pvp'ers should of stuck to ranked PvP 8v8 matches but what we saw instead was they wanted to roll stomp everyone so they avoided the ranked matches and stuck with the regular warzones to go up against casual pvp'ers.... All they used ranked pvp for was to farm ranked comm's within their guild but creating two teams so they could gear up quickly once they were geared they just hung out in the regular warzones..

 

Agreed. Every single top tier guild never ran ranked. The thread to have 8v8 ranked reinstated is a giant farce so top tier teams can farm ranked comms more quickly so they can stomp pugs and casual premades with their gear superiority. I am also sick of seeing double premades of 6 assassins and two ops or 6 smash and two ops. It was such a freaking joke. Now these uber leet premades will run ranked arenas (probably win trade) to gain the same advantage in regular warzones to avoid doing ranked 4v4...disgusting bioware, absolutely disgusting.

 

+1, will read again.

Edited by cycao
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fix is not gonna happen in 2.4 though,

 

Premades will still be in regs - because objective play funnier than deathmatch - so it's not likely to change. Deal with it. :-/

 

I deal with it in the following manor.

Do I res run in and die within 3 global cd's 2+ times in a row. If yes assume over geared premade in voice chat; because on my PVE server I have never seen a pug pvp group focus fire before in my life. Then I leave and reque so I wont be facing them again.

 

This isn't a real solution this is how I avoid suffering the effects of poor game design. It isn't fun going up against this type of team. In fact it is the opposite of fun. They cant get rid of the group que'ing; that would be ridiculous. They could buff the other team to compensate for the lack of coordination. This would help balance. But until I see something in a patch note trying to fix this problem I will leave the match rather than stay; and that reduces the fun for everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Players with equal skills will win more games if they play in the same 4-person group with voicecomms instead of going in alone.

 

What I got from the above is the following; correct me if I'm wrong:

 

Four players who play with each other repeatedly with voicechat will be outperform equally skilled players who haven't played with each other and without voicechat.

 

That is, both the voicechat and the playing together increases performance. Again, you have a point with the voice communication as being an unfair advantage, since it's a lot easier to talk than to type (But that makes all that naga gear also unfair :p, since keybinds are made easier with closer buttons).

 

However, and advantage a premade gets solely from playing together a lot stems from the teamwork they've obtained from working together, or, in other words, the skill they've acquired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, and advantage a premade gets solely from playing together a lot stems from the teamwork they've obtained from working together, or, in other words, the skill they've acquired.

 

This 'skill' lies in knowing exactly what the other team members will do in certain situations. If you separate them, that 'skill' disappears. Thus this is not a 'skill' that a PUG player can ever acquire, as they are always 'separated' by definition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...