What exactly were people expecting at end-game?

 

There has to be a finite number of quests, a level cap, and a finite number of planets/zones to quest in. At some point you're going to exhaust it, and then go into the repetitive part of the game. Did you expect an infiinte number of planets, a storyline that never ended, and an infinite level cap? New Operations, flashpoints, and PvP maps to be released weekly?

 

 

Want to make a MMO that truly stands out...well then original ideas are needed. However BW/EA went for the quick buck....now we are left with this pile of doo doo....

 

They did make an MMO that stands out. What they did not do was invent a game that completley remakes and reinvents the MMO model & paradigm - but I doubt they ever intended to, and people wo were expecting them to do so were projecting their own wish fulfillment and not basing their expectations on reaility.

Edited March 14, 2012 by amantheil

What exactly were people expecting at end-game?

 

This just in: MMO uses MMO model! film at 11.

 

 

 

 

What amazing and innovative endgame do you suggest?

 

My stance as well; it's a non-sandbox MMO. This type of MMO features instanced raids and pvp at end-game. Surprisingly, lots of people rather enjoy that, as has been shown by the many successful MMO's over the years to use such a model.

 

Complaining that this type of MMO has raids is rather like complaining that an FPS requires you to pick up different guns and then frag people...

Edited March 14, 2012 by BlueCorsair

What all you slags don't seem to understand is that junk commercial MMOs don't just use WoW's model. They use the post TBC model. They design their games as though the first release was actually an expansion to an already existing and successful game. Just imagine if WoW started with TBC and didn't develop it any differently. Yeah... and other mmo devs are thinking they can get away with that. It hasen't worked yet as they have mostly tanked compared to the mmos who didn't design their debut release just like another game's expansion. Edited March 14, 2012 by Vlaxitov

My "nope" was in reference to the "brick wall" comment.

 

It IS a brick wall at end-game, unless you roll an alt. Which is not "end-game" the context that the OP was asking it.

What exactly were people expecting at end-game?

 

There has to be a finite number of quests, a level cap, and a finite number of planets/zones to quest in. At some point you're going to exhaust it, and then go into the repetitive part of the game. Did you expect an infiinte number of planets, a storyline that never ended, and an infinite level cap? New Operations, flashpoints, and PvP maps to be released weekly?

 

 

 

 

They did make an MMO that stands out. What they did not do was invent a game that completley remakes and reinvents the MMO model & paradigm - but I doubt they ever intended to, and people wo were expecting them to do so were projecting their own wish fulfillment and not basing their expectations on reaility.

 

The problem is not so much that raiding is the end game (although they seemed to indicate that wasn't going to be the case) but rather that it is EXACTLY the same progression/reward/token/lockout model as WoW. I mean, 1:1. There was no wavering.

 

For example, in crafting... there was reverse engineering and Crew members who build things that take time. That was an area where there was some iteration on what had come before in WoW or other games.

 

But nothing of the sort exists in the raid game, it's the except same grind that WoW has and I think that's why people already feel tired of it, because they were just doing it for 7 years elsewhere.

 

Again it's not that "raiding" is the problem, but the exact mechanics for rewards and progression.

Carbon copy which could not live up to the original. But then when does a carbon copy ever live up to the original??

 

Want to make a MMO that truly stands out...well then original ideas are needed. However BW/EA went for the quick buck....now we are left with this pile of doo doo....

 

So when does GW2 come out again?

 

What original ideas? You brought it up, so enlighten us.

 

And GW2 will disappoint you as well. When does "insert next game to come out after GW2 falls on it's face" come out?

Edited March 14, 2012 by Jederix

Yeah, actually they did.

 

Where?

 

Edit: Wait, this is where you trot out that line about how fighting one huge boss isn't iconic and they were going to get away from that, right? That just says that they wanted their raids to have multiple bosses, but they failed to deliver on that one thing. No where in that statement does Bioware claim that this game will be much different than other MMOs before it.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Jederix

What original ideas? You brought it up, so enlighten us.

 

And GW2 will disappoint you as well. When does "insert next game to come out after GW2 falls on it's face"?

 

Will GW2 suck? I'm seriously asking because I haven't even looked at the gameplay videos for awhile.

What original ideas? You brought it up, so enlighten us.

 

And GW2 will disappoint you as well. When does "insert next game to come out after GW2 falls on it's face" come out?

 

GW2 may disappoint in the end, but they are doing something completely different, which in my opinion is the only clear path for a new winner to emerge. You have to risk failure or be doomed to mediocrity.

Will GW2 suck? I'm seriously asking because I haven't even looked at the gameplay videos for awhile.

 

Usually the more hype thrown around a game the more suckage you see after release. People's expectations are WAY too high these days.

 

SWTOR could have spent at least another year in development, fixed the majority of the issues surrounding the game, and released their "1.4" version as 1.0 and people would still complain.

 

I do believe that they rushed the release date, however, with an MMO of this size, 4 years of development is a pretty short timeframe to get the amount of content they have in this game.

 

And yes.. Voice overs, cutscenes, planets, quests, etc are all content. But there comes a time where they need to start paying the bills of all of the people who have been working the title and a release date has to be set.

 

To the above. Yes.. GW2 will suck for a lot of people becuase they have an unrealistic expecation of what the game will be. I have a fellow guild member who game hops and you can almost set your calendar after a game launch for when he's starts talking about how "EPIC" the NEXT GAME will be... We've actually debated recording his vent conversations to play back to him every time this happens. We've been playing the same MMO's for the past 10 years together.

Usually the more hype thrown around a game the more suckage you see after release. People's expectations are WAY too high these days.

 

Only I don't see alot of hype involving GW2 which is why I haven't seen gameplay vids for awhile.

 

SWTOR could have spent at least another year in development, fixed the majority of the issues surrounding the game, and released their "1.4" version as 1.0 and people would still complain.

 

SWTOR cant fix the fact that they modeled their debut game after another mmo's expansions model and this is why people will still complain.

 

I do believe that they rushed the release date, however, with an MMO of this size, 4 years of development is a pretty short timeframe to get the amount of content they have in this game.

 

And yes.. Voice overs, cutscenes, planets, quests, etc are all content. But there comes a time where they need to start paying the bills of all of the people who have been working the title and a release date has to be set.

 

In otherwords, lets justify a "pay me now and I'll entertain you later" release plan for all games in this genre. I understand that the cinema part of it took effort, but I can only watch even my favorite movies so many times let alone this.

 

To the above. Yes.. GW2 will suck for a lot of people becuase they have an unrealistic expecation of what the game will be. I have a fellow guild member who game hops and you can almost set your calendar after a game launch for when he's starts talking about how "EPIC" the NEXT GAME will be... We've actually debated recording his vent conversations to play back to him every time this happens. We've been playing the same MMO's for the past 10 years together.

 

If you've played mmos for 10+ years, then how can you not see that most of todays new commercial mmos outside of the korean grinders are desinged like some weird lite version of WoW's expansions. Thats not going to work and will never be the next big thing in this genre.

 

I'd say the problem with these games as of late has more to do with the developer's expectations that they can appeal to anyone whos ever put a video game controller in their hand and that only clouds their purpose which is just making a good game. Aside from graphics, my expectations aren't any higher than they were 10 years ago with these kinds of games. The bar is lower.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Vlaxitov

Note: Why any developer would think dailies (doing the same exact set of quests every day) is a good idea astounds me.

 

I can just imagine the outcry in the forum and gnashing of teeth if they did not have end game dailies. It would be horendous and mak the general forum front page percolate like an over boiled pot of soup.

 

Tip: dailies are optional. You don't have to do them.

 

Most MMOs put a variety of things in end game because peoples interests and preferences vary. Interestingly enough, if they don't put familiar things in, people get outraged and decry the developers. You whole list comparison between two MMOs exemplies "familiar"

 

Maybe you are just burned out on MMOs.

Only I don't see alot of hype involving GW2 which is why I haven't seen gameplay vids for awhile.

 

Actually, GW2 is the most hyped game on these forums by people who hate SWTOR.

 

It gets hyped up around here like it's a famous movie starlet giving out free you know whats.

 

There are likely going to be a lot of disappointed people in GW2 forums around the net, but at least they probably won't be hanging around here.

GW2 may disappoint in the end, but they are doing something completely different, which in my opinion is the only clear path for a new winner to emerge. You have to risk failure or be doomed to mediocrity.

 

While there is a craving for this in the MMO space, I honestly think most people will be upset at the lack of familiarity. There are way too many people criticizing and comparing SWTOR to a few other MMOs to believe otherwise. Yeah, some will be fine with something totally new (if that's what they actually do), but most people at the end of the day want cozy and familiar.

Different options to the daily quest grind are essential imo, would rather run fp's and wz's for daily coms than the same old soul destorying grind.. dailys arent fun or challenging, they are a chore.

Noone forces you to do the dailies, they're just there to give you something to do if you want to make some money.

 

I really am curious what new novel end game thing you would suggest though.