I think we need some sort of server forum even if it is an official "unofficial" forum site that the community can use while the people at Bioware manage their resources.

Out of curiosity, I followed a handful of the links on the stickied page. My server didn't have a forum listed, but I was curious what the forum population was for the servers that did. Most of them have one or two members total (oddly though I found that I had a mutual friend with someone who is in a two person facebook group). Even the "housing a forum for all servers" type sites were a wasteland of forums under which each had zero posts.

Having played a number of MMO's, realm specific forums are good for recruitment, they're a place where the community of a server gets to know each other better, they're a place where realm wide events can actually be scheduled (the "community events forum" doesn't cut it when every realm is jumbled into one place, especially when the search function for these forums has been removed), they're a place where people who are looking for a realm can get a feel for the personalities and environment on the realm, etc. If the game developers for SWTOR truly doesn't have the resources to run server wide forums, then outsource it to someone who does like WAR did.

Personally, I didn't like WAR (sorry to those of you that did =X) but one thing I recall from release was that their developers couldn't handle forum moderation or management, and so the makers of the game posted that while they did not yet have the resources to operate a for the game, an "Unofficial Forum could be found here," and it redirected to ONE site rather than this splintered hodgepodge of forums. By reading the realm based forum for that game, even though I only played it for a short time, I was happily in touch with my realm community.

There are a lot of fan sites out there for this game that do a pretty good job of creating forums that are free of random pop-ups, advertisements for their guilds, and some armchair web-designer trying to show how dynamic they can make a site (when really all people need is a functional site with a lot of bandwidth, that has a simple PHPBB sub-forum -- called the name of whatever their realm is -- that can handle a whole lot of threads); can't the SWTOR people contact one of these sites and see if they'll host a webforum for the servers (like, MMO Champion does for wow (despite wow actually having server forums in addition to that) or something?) and then unofficially list it as the unofficial server forums for people to use?

Honestly, this entire community is filled with the same QQ'ing/flaming/trolling/whining/spammers/ignorant people that filled up WoW, HoN, LoL, and any other blizzard game. ( hon and lol are not blizzard games, I know.) Most threads are just a bunch of QQ that contribute NOTHING to the game.

I'm glad BW doesn't respond to QQ'ers and I hope they never post on threads like this because you can NEVER please everyone. Ignore them. Ignore them well. Even post a thread that says, WE ARE DOING IT OUR WAY. YOU DONT LIKE IT, ****.

I would rather play with a 50,000 non-flaming, non-trolling, non-whining community then play with 13 million DIPSHTTS.

LEAVE. GET OUT!!!!

GET OUT NOW!!!!!

I don't really care what the "business decision" was that led to there being no server forums, but it was a stupid move, Bioware. There needs to be server forums, end of story.

It will prolong subscriptions, for one thing, and build better communities. The benefits FAR outweigh the negatives. I'm a 16 year MMO veteran and I am appalled (and a little shocked, actually) that you folks didn't provide us with server forums.

Lack of forums will likely shorten my subscription and others as well. Think about it some more and revisit it with your team and please don't let the bean-counters attend those meetings either.

Also to TOR players: if you don't want server forums, then don't read or participate in them. There are tens of thousands of us who DO want them.

Honestly, this entire community is filled with the same QQ'ing/flaming/trolling/whining/spammers/ignorant people that filled up WoW, HoN, LoL, and any other blizzard game. ( hon and lol are not blizzard games, I know.) Most threads are just a bunch of QQ that contribute NOTHING to the game.

 

I'm glad BW doesn't respond to QQ'ers and I hope they never post on threads like this because you can NEVER please everyone. Ignore them. Ignore them well. Even post a thread that says, WE ARE DOING IT OUR WAY. YOU DONT LIKE IT, ****.

 

I would rather play with a 50,000 non-flaming, non-trolling, non-whining community then play with 13 million DIPSHTTS.

 

LEAVE. GET OUT!!!!

 

GET OUT NOW!!!!!

translation:

I'm a green hippie and I don't like cars, and I don't like all the people who drive.

I'd rather live with 50k bikers, than 13 million drivers

i'm better than all of you.

Honestly, this entire community is filled with the same QQ'ing/flaming/trolling/whining/spammers/ignorant people that filled up WoW, HoN, LoL, and any other blizzard game. ( hon and lol are not blizzard games, I know.) Most threads are just a bunch of QQ that contribute NOTHING to the game.

 

I'm glad BW doesn't respond to QQ'ers and I hope they never post on threads like this because you can NEVER please everyone. Ignore them. Ignore them well. Even post a thread that says, WE ARE DOING IT OUR WAY. YOU DONT LIKE IT, ****.

 

I would rather play with a 50,000 non-flaming, non-trolling, non-whining community then play with 13 million DIPSHTTS.

 

LEAVE. GET OUT!!!!

 

GET OUT NOW!!!!!

Honestly, your type of attitude is what makes things difficult for the rest of the community. Everyone here has made a effort to provide constructive feedback, you on the other hand chose not to. Instead you made this a opportunity for you to gain some attention and divert away from the real subject with negativity.

Everyone gets it, there's always a 10% who will disagree. You are among them.

That still doesn't solve nor answer the issues at hand.

And FYI, it's clear to me that you didnt even read this 1st post because you clearly overlooked the fact that Bioware already responded to this thread. Good job

I think we need to emphasize Bioware's advantages in this, as clearly they haven't shown any interest in the advantages to us.

 

BW Advantage: Money

People play MMOs to kill time and to have fun. That "fun" part can be almost anything in the game: discovering pointless land exploits, ganking lowbies, crafting, flashpoints, single player quests, etc. All of those thing will get boring. It is only a matter of time. When we get bored, we cancel subscriptions. But! If we are emotionally invested in the game, we will endure the boredom and continue to play. NPCs, in a compelling storyline, do give us that emotional investment, but we realize that NPCs are just lines of script and will not care if we stop playing.

 

Read this next line over and over, Bioware: We play MMOs because of the Human players and the Human connection. Without that compelling emotional connection to the other people we are playing with, there is no reason to stick around after the novelty wears off. And let me be clear, here:I don't care about the players who are on other servers, nor do I care about their guilds or their events. I care about the players that I am playing the game with.

 

How pathetic is this situation? We are begging you to give us a reason to fork over hundreds of dollars, and you are continually denying us.

 

Please, Bioware, make this game a cash cow and give us our communities; give us our server forums.

 

-Mugaman, Jedi Sage, Ajunta Pall

I think this comment outlines the problem very well. I would actually like to see this post as a sticky in its own thread because it hits the nail on the head so clearly.

Please learn this lesson Bioware:

I had been playing WoW for a while and eventually got sick of it, but I could not bring myself to leave. Why?

So many people I had gotten to know, such a strong community was formed and I could not bear myself to just throw that all away.

No server forums, no chatbubbles, sharded servers, they all limit communicating with eachother and keep us growing that bond necesarry to keep playing the game.

I'm so confused Bioware's argument against a LFD searcher is that they want people to communicate. While the lack of the above named things actually shows the complete opposite!

EA/Bioware, If you're doing it for the money right NOW, it proves you are not looking at it for the long run.

May I just say to Senior Community Coordinator Allison Berryman, "You are wrong"!

This is what you said in your interview, "Generally speaking, server forums for many MMOs tend to be largely un-moderated and can become unpleasant to visit".

http://tor-talk.com/community-fog-of-war/

Having server forums is a way to sell your goods, keep up with current relations and find out what guilds are active and in control.

If you are having a problem with moderating the forums then maybe some of your gamers wouldn't mind helping out for free or even get a discount on their dues.

Hell you are a Sr. Community Coordinator I would expect you to have about 5-10 years of experience with MMO's under your belt and your response is a bit BS.

I think this comment outlines the problem very well. I would actually like to see this post as a sticky in its own thread because it hits the nail on the head so clearly.

Thank you. Because I am an attention whore, here are my two previously posted arguments:

I actually have a problem with Bioware's arrogance when it comes to forum management. Claiming that server forums are rife with negativity is just plain ignorant. Are there numerous cases of server-forum drama and player/guild callouts? Yes, but that is what builds a server's community and contributes largely to player/guild notoriety. Most server forums are actually used constructively: guild recruitment, crafting discussions and transactions, guild progress, etc. Furthermore, most of the player/guild callouts are just playful competition and are part of the reason why MMOs are fun. Bioware's insinuation that server forums are cesspools filled with hate and grief is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.

 

Server forums build community far better than in-game interactions or the current forum set-up. No community = no MMO experience = thousands of people ditching their subscriptions after they get bored of the single-player storyline.

 

We should all urge Bioware to create a cash cow instead of sticking with the current model (which is essentially a more expensive KOTOR and will not net the constant cash flow that they could have).

I think we need to emphasize Bioware's advantages in this, as clearly they haven't shown any interest in the advantages to us.

 

BW Advantage: Money

People play MMOs to kill time and to have fun. That "fun" part can be almost anything in the game: discovering pointless land exploits, ganking lowbies, crafting, flashpoints, single player quests, etc. All of those thing will get boring. It is only a matter of time. When we get bored, we cancel subscriptions. But! If we are emotionally invested in the game, we will endure the boredom and continue to play. NPCs, in a compelling storyline, do give us that emotional investment, but we realize that NPCs are just lines of script and will not care if we stop playing.

 

Read this next line over and over, Bioware: We play MMOs because of the Human players and the Human connection. Without that compelling emotional connection to the other people we are playing with, there is no reason to stick around after the novelty wears off. And let me be clear, here:I don't care about the players who are on other servers, nor do I care about their guilds or their events. I care about the players that I am playing the game with.

 

How pathetic is this situation? We are begging you to give us a reason to fork over hundreds of dollars, and you are continually denying us.

 

Please, Bioware, make this game a cash cow and give us our communities; give us our server forums.

 

-Mugaman, Jedi Sage, Ajunta Pall

Honestly, I'm not sure what else there is to say on the matter. From the arguments that other players have presented and my own arguments, I feel like this should be case-closed.

Bioware: I would really like to hear a response to this. One that doesn't include anything about us players creating our own unsecured server forums.

May I just say to Senior Community Coordinator Allison Berryman, "You are wrong"!

 

This is what you said in your interview, "Generally speaking, server forums for many MMOs tend to be largely un-moderated and can become unpleasant to visit".

http://tor-talk.com/community-fog-of-war/

 

 

Having server forums is a way to sell your goods, keep up with current relations and find out what guilds are active and in control.

If you are having a problem with moderating the forums then maybe some of your gamers wouldn't mind helping out for free or even get a discount on their dues.

 

Hell you are a Sr. Community Coordinator I would expect you to have about 5-10 years of experience with MMO's under your belt and your response is a bit BS.

I've learned from 15 years of full time work, that experience really doesn't translates to any representation of ability.

i'm really disappointed at BW in this decision.

ultimately, i have no recourse except to not continue to pay for the game, which i have done. I canceled a 6 month reoccuring sub a few weeks ago. I hope there's a response to this soon, or else it'll simply lapse, and I don't know if i'd come back to it after they fix it.

it's a "big picture" type deal. if they don't view the community as important, i don't think i can support it.

Do they not understand that not having server forums only HURTS their players' sense of community and thus has the potential to hurt their bottom line?

If they are so concerned about moderation, why not have a third party host officially sponsored server forums like DAoC did with the Vault network? Then the burden of moderation is on someone else.

Either way, they are screwing themselves by not having this available.

I just came to this forum looking for a form for my server. I want to be part of a community and its difficult to do that if I can't interact with *my* community (ie server) outside of the game.

C'mon BW. This is easy. Make us server forums please.

Man, MMOs must have changed. I must sound like an old-fart but in my day (SWG pre-2005) everyone congrated on their own server forum. Its shocking that this is something we have to ask for. /sigh.

Do they not understand that not having server forums only HURTS their players' sense of community and thus has the potential to hurt their bottom line?

Spot on man, spot on.

I've been playing MMO since 2003 and I've been the leader of my guild (Fated) since 2004. We're one of those multi-game guilds that isn't easily categorized, since we pretty much do anything from crafting to heavy raiding to PVP. Since I'm usually pretty active in server politics and (pvp) event organisation, I think I have a fair idea of what makes a community. And in my considered opinion, server forums are essential. They allow people to still participate in the community from work, they give a place to coordinate social activities, PVE and PVP activities, and they give guilds a place to get to know each other.

SERVER FORUMS ARE IMPORTANT

COMMUNITIES ARE IMPORTANT

For the longevity of games, I'd even say a good community is essential. Many people keep playing or keep coming back because they miss the community. Going back and immediately fitting in with a group you belong to is a powerful incentive for playing.

And then we get SW:TOR. I'd describe this game as downright anti-social. The constant cutscenes make that there's hardly any guildchat or even region chat and that Ventrilo is quiet. Guild tools are pretty much non-existent. And there are no server forums.

In Pirates of the Burning Sea, this far into live we already had our National Councils up and running

In Warhammer, this far into live the guilds were already working on how to grab fortresses, even though those fortresses didn't even work yet

I never played AOC at launch, but AOC chat is more lively than SW:TOR chat… and AOC has a WAY smaller population

In City of Heroes, task force weekends, costume contests and PVP zone events are organised through the forums

In Aion, cross guild cooperation for capturing fortresses was again started in the first weeks after launch

In SW:TOR… uhm… I see some guilds which seem to be bigger than others, don't know squat about them though. Can't look them up either. But hey, no one's talking to anyone anyway. On the server where my guild goes for PVP, we know almost everyone. Why? Well, we're from the Bloodfin server in SWG, originally. Most of us left after the CU/NGE, but we've kept in contact all those years, first through the server forums, then through our own expatriate forums. Forum wars, feuds, smacktalking and all, we still hang together… and server forums were instrumental to that.

I consider the BW arguments that server forums would go unmoderated as bogus. Other games use volunteer moderators from the community, so can they.

Linna Baresi

<Fated>

fated.europefreeforum.com

Server forums are not that important, but they are a welcome addition. By no means necessary though.

...Some MMORPGs dont even have any official forums whatsoever.

...Some MMORPGs dont even have any official forums whatsoever.

Yeah, the ones who have a few thousand players and are free to play.

Yeah, the ones who have a few thousand players and are free to play.

 

Well, Warhammer didn't have any at launch and for many months after. Resulting in the Curse forums being THE place to be. EA/Mythic only came with official forums way way later, when the game was already starting to collapse.

Linna