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The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

Abadus's Avatar


Abadus
02.12.2012 , 02:30 PM | #521
Yeah knockback then force sprint just to get pulled and have them go invulnerable to my damage. Good sins DESTROY sorcs.

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.12.2012 , 02:31 PM | #522
Quote: Originally Posted by Jurence View Post
-Don't force speed unless your resolve bar is full.
-You are dramatically overestimating the likelihood of electrocute being used. Most assassins use electrocute earlier in the fight so that they can continue dumping all they can on you while you're still close. The good ones will save it for a strategic use.
-1v1 against tank specced assasins in my experience don't have the damage output to be a problem for me.
So never force speed, because a good assassin knows not to white bar you. If I'm overestimating when it will be used (while I'm sprinting away), how does it make sense to say they will use it strategically but not when I'm sprinting away? There are always going to be situations where I will beat an assassin, and those situations always come down to poor control from the assassin, aka a poor player.

And you know what, you're right about tank specced assassins now, because they did nerf their tank hybrid which had really high burst.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.12.2012 , 02:39 PM | #523
Quote: Originally Posted by Dregas View Post
Varicite...a sentinel and Operatives for hard counters...really man? Every "counter" strategy you have stated takes time. And how is a melee supposed to get in there and actually do dmg when you have to save your gap closer for sprint. Good luck running up to him while you are getting lightning slowed and doing 0 dmg because you can't get in range. AND when you finally make it, there is that wonderful bubble to get though, not to mention more stuns or a whirlwind if he doesn't want to be bothered. By the time I have done all this another friend of the sorcs has come to add onto the attacking dps and my window has closed. Most likely the sorcs bubble is still up.

Everything you say sounds so simple on paper, but the current game mechanics don't make it so.
Why is there no LoS in your equation? Every single environment provides ample LoS which is a direct counter to ranged classes.

Huttball? LoS and run up to him.

Voidstar? LoS around a pillar and run around the ranged line to him.

Alderaan? Go around the fray and get him from the side.

I run up to them all the time; I don't have Jet Charge or a leap ability, and my 1 gap closer is my Grapple, which I save for Force Charge. It's a kamikaze tactic, since I am also usually running past the melee fray AND the ranged line who might all turn and target me. That's fine; taking out an enemy sage/sorc is generally a win for a straight dps.

It's like taking out a queen w/ a pawn.

I know exactly what it feels like to wade through the pebble/lightning storm at times, and if I'm caught at range w/out LoS, I know that I'm at a disadvantage. I still don't feel this makes them OP, because if I catch them in melee range, they are the ones at a disadvantage.

The wonderful bubble takes all of 2 hits to get through from even my mediocre dps, and they are not doing any damage to me while I break it.

I could see a case for a Sorc on the bridges for Huttball, as the knockback is very tough to deal w/ for a lot of melee classes, but even this can be countered with good positional awareness most of the time.

I don't mean to make it sound like a fight w/ a Sorc is absolutely trivial; it's not. A good Sorc will be LoS'ing you w/ Affliction up and trying to gain distance to get at least a tick or 2 of Force Lightning off for the Wrath proc. If they proc it, they WILL drop Crushing Darkness on you to continue doing damage on the move. If you let them get even more range, they will steadily eat your health bar.

What I am saying is that most classes have the tools to deal w/ this methodology, and it feels like most people have simply altogether given up on even trying to figure out how to beat their opponent, and instead come here to whine for nerfs instead.

If I felt they were OP, I'd prolly bandwagon w/ the rest of you.

But I don't.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Jurence's Avatar


Jurence
02.12.2012 , 02:41 PM | #524
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
Could you stand toe to toe w/ a Marauder, Pyrotech, Assassin, or Scoundrel w/out the CC provided from your spec?

That's the real question.
No, definitely not.

Jurence's Avatar


Jurence
02.12.2012 , 02:42 PM | #525
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
So never force speed, because a good assassin knows not to white bar you. If I'm overestimating when it will be used (while I'm sprinting away), how does it make sense to say they will use it strategically but not when I'm sprinting away? There are always going to be situations where I will beat an assassin, and those situations always come down to poor control from the assassin, aka a poor player.

And you know what, you're right about tank specced assassins now, because they did nerf their tank hybrid which had really high burst.

From my point of view, 95% of the players I go against are poor players

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.12.2012 , 02:42 PM | #526
Quote: Originally Posted by Jurence View Post
From my point of view, 95% of the players I go against are poor players
And therein lies the problem. The majority of players in this game are poor players.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.12.2012 , 02:43 PM | #527
The problem is CC counters every class and Sorcs have every flavor of CC imaginable on excessively short cooldowns. They also have the best escapes in the game and no class has the burst to kill them before they start their ridiculous CC chains. Operatives used to be able to do it pre-nerf. This surge nerf will make this problem even worse. A sorcerer that has time to react and use CCs and escapes to his advantage will always end up either winning a fight or end up keeping people at bay long enough to secure an enormous advantage for his team.

The bubble pop + knockback combo uses two 20s cooldown and chain CCs for 8 seconds. A sorcerer can basically lock people down 40% of the time using just two CCs. By the time the 12 seconds of not being CC'd are up the resolve bar is basically reset and he can do it again. That's not balanced.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

Jurence's Avatar


Jurence
02.12.2012 , 02:46 PM | #528
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
The problem is CC counters every class and Sorcs have every flavor of CC imaginable on excessively short cooldowns. They also have the best escapes in the game and no class has the burst to kill them before they start their ridiculous CC chains. Operatives used to be able to do it pre-nerf. This surge nerf will make this problem even worse. A sorcerer that has time to react and use CCs and escapes to his advantage will always end up either winning a fight or end up keeping people at bay long enough to secure an enormous advantage for his team.

The bubble pop + knockback combo uses two 20s cooldown and chain CCs for 8 seconds. A sorcerer can basically lock people down 40% of the time using just two CCs. By the time the 12 seconds of not being CC'd are up the resolve bar is basically reset and he can do it again. That's not balanced.
-Damage to backlash breaks CC
-Damage to whirlwind breaks CC
-Damage to stunned overloard reduces CC to 2 seconds but is only immobility

Only thing you have to complain about is electrocute.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.12.2012 , 02:46 PM | #529
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
And therein lies the problem. The majority of players in this game are poor players.
I think this is also true.

Unfortunately, the lack of a combat log is not really helping anyone to learn what abilities are killing them, and how to counter them.

The learning curve for pvp is unintuitive at best, w/out having any idea what just happened to you.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.12.2012 , 02:47 PM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
The problem is CC counters every class and Sorcs have every flavor of CC imaginable on excessively short cooldowns. They also have the best escapes in the game and no class has the burst to kill them before they start their ridiculous CC chains.
Only two CC's have short CD's, and one of them severely gimps your dps if you take it. The other two are on much longer CD's.

I'd also say vanish is a much better escape.