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The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

Rallic's Avatar


Rallic
02.13.2012 , 10:43 PM | #1021
Quote: Originally Posted by Aidank View Post
For one, In the original post he specifically states 20/21 sorcerers, so no, it's not a generalization, you're just terrible at picking up implications.


For two, It's not even close, I've got a 50 sorc, scoundrel, and my sentinel is getting there, but in terms of control none of them are even in the same ballpark, I'm not sure how you could possibly argue that they've got the same amount of control unless you're doing something stupid like adding up all of the abilities that impair movement speed from each class.
Sorcs have the most cc yes and some of it is better then yours . Buts its about all they have , even light/madness can not do the dmg of a dmg spec jug .

Iv played my sorc to BM in
Full madness
Full lightening
Lightening/madness
Full heals
Heals/madness

I have tryed
Power surge
Power crit
Crit surge
Iv dropped tuns of coin on mods to try and get the dps of a true dps class , this is not a top dps class its a supper. And no mater.what you do 2nd rate dps is what they have.

Saying oil but they gets 600k dmg in the wz don't make them a good dps class it makes them useless shield farmers. When a sorc gets that sort of dmg its not for kills that they did its spamming dots that do **** dmg kills no One and helps the team not.

I feel most of the QQers in this thread are bent out of shape ops, bad players , trolls , and some thatight be good players but yet to understand the class.

As for tue guys saying they have a 50 sorc and that its op , I just don't believe you . Ss or you dont have ine. I have played most of Tue classes to 50 now and the sorc is not op , there are easyer classes to play with more dmg. Better killing.

Most of you have said sorcs are op in groups ,not solo just very strong solo., lmao then the sorc is not op the group is. That comes down to group mix, that's a hole new bag. And the sorcs still not the one jlling you .

Guard + bubble +heals is op as hell.
Guard + heals op .
Join a good group and you will be to , solo and die like you should.

Might this just be the soloers trying to nerf teams .hmm might be.

Sorc is a cc dot class , in no way are they a dps class so QQers can toss that out and try another route. BW I'm noes the truth on this as they can see it in the game logs.

Bet they have bin looking hard at it to.

Take the cc away and your left with a toon that can not dps And no way to live past the first 5 hits

Abadus's Avatar


Abadus
02.13.2012 , 10:45 PM | #1022
OP Sorc. Poor NorianX he could not keep up in the AoE star.

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/...ill_Damage.jpg

silly thing is my highest damage was 3922.... Norian usually does close to 7K top end.

O and Princessita is my spec too. 480K damage.

Lormif's Avatar


Lormif
02.13.2012 , 10:50 PM | #1023
Quote: Originally Posted by Aidank View Post
I specifically said marauder, again, do you have short term memory loss?
Actually, you didnt, ill quote it for you:

Quote:
You can't count a sorcerer's instant cyclone with a 2 second stun at the end, and then look at a warriors 1 sec immobilize after a charge and say "Oh, looks like they've both got one, they've got the exact same control"

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
02.13.2012 , 10:50 PM | #1024
Quote: Originally Posted by Aidank View Post
But the problem here is that sorcerers benefit far more from a bugged resolve than any other class besides maybe snipers.
So sorcerers deserve to be nerfed because of broken game mechanic?

Honestly, the class is perfectly fine. In PvP you win some, you lose some. I'll take the healer/tank comp in WZ PvP any day of the week and twice on sunday over hybrid spec sages. I'd rather throw guard on a Sent in a WZ because of their ability to burst 2-3 people down (with guard up) before they and/or I go down ourselves.

Guards and Jugs dominate Huttball, hands down. Healer/Tank comps dominate CW and VS, hands down. I'm by no means saying sorc/sage suck.....cause they don't. But QQing about them this bad is ridiculously over the top; and I suspect, brought on by an e-death, causing angst.
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Lormif's Avatar


Lormif
02.13.2012 , 10:54 PM | #1025
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
No I meant that Marauders can't talent it. It's reserve for TANK Juggernauts. No DPS JK or SW can get it.

-----

Another point that I'd like to mention is just how GOOD the Sorcerer CCs are. Not only do they have the MOST CC but they also have the best of each type.

Marauder get a 1.5m CD 6s duration AoE mezz that is our big "killer CC". It's biggest flaw is that you rare get the full duration since it breaks on damage. A Sorcerer talented for Backlash can click off his bubble for a 20 second CD AoE mezz with a 3 second duration.

Your stun is also the best in the game with a 4s duration, 50s(talented) CD, and 30 yrd range.

You have the best knockback in the game as well with the shortest CD and a talented immobilize attached. The duration of the immobilize is also incredibly long.

The only thing you have slightly worse is your slow. It's a much larger range than most slows but it doesn't have 100% uptime. On the other hand your main filler move has a slow attached.

Your whirlwind is by far the best 60s(8 in PvP) CC in the game in PvP and even in PvE. It's even got a 2 second stun attached if talented. It also doesn't have anything like a stealth requirement attached.

The immobilize is broke on damage on wave, just like the one you complained about with your own ability.

You have TONS of slows, we have 1 slow plus a channel.. Your whole class is designed to keep me close so you can use that amazing burst to kill us quickly.

---

Get ready for a new thread. We've well past 1000 posts (1019 atm).
I does not matter, you have one of the highest bursts in the game...

Second, whirlwind best? It is ONLY good for getting away and maybe capping something.. You cant use it in battle because it breaks on anything.

Aidank's Avatar


Aidank
02.13.2012 , 10:56 PM | #1026
Quote: Originally Posted by Rallic View Post
Sorcs have the most cc yes and some of it is better then yours . Buts its about all they have , even light/madness can not do the dmg of a dmg spec jug .

Iv played my sorc to BM in
Full madness
Full lightening
Lightening/madness
Full heals
Heals/madness

I have tryed
Power surge
Power crit
Crit surge
Iv dropped tuns of coin on mods to try and get the dps of a true dps class , this is not a top dps class its a supper. And no mater.what you do 2nd rate dps is what they have.

Saying oil but they gets 600k dmg in the wz don't make them a good dps class it makes them useless shield farmers. When a sorc gets that sort of dmg its not for kills that they did its spamming dots that do **** dmg kills no One and helps the team not.

I feel most of the QQers in this thread are bent out of shape ops, bad players , trolls , and some thatight be good players but yet to understand the class.

As for tue guys saying they have a 50 sorc and that its op , I just don't believe you . Ss or you dont have ine. I have played most of Tue classes to 50 now and the sorc is not op , there are easyer classes to play with more dmg. Better killing.

Most of you have said sorcs are op in groups ,not solo just very strong solo., lmao then the sorc is not op the group is. That comes down to group mix, that's a hole new bag. And the sorcs still not the one jlling you .

Guard + bubble +heals is op as hell.
Guard + heals op .
Join a good group and you will be to , solo and die like you should.

Might this just be the soloers trying to nerf teams .hmm might be.

Sorc is a cc dot class , in no way are they a dps class so QQers can toss that out and try another route. BW I'm noes the truth on this as they can see it in the game logs.

Bet they have bin looking hard at it to.

Take the cc away and your left with a toon that can not dps And no way to live past the first 5 hits
Except that my first character to 50 is a sorcerer? Sure we don't do a ton of burst damage but saying CC is all we have is absurd, we've got amazing AoE damage in hybrid, amazing sustained single target damage in madness, some of the best mobility in the game, and more survivability than dps specced powertechs (Referring to the thread someone had posted a while pack whitewalling the two.)


We do great in 1v1 situations, but even then the game isn't balanced around 1v1 situations, it's supposed to be balanced around group pvp, where sorcerers are clearly overpowered.
Quote: Originally Posted by HileyQuiggley View Post
Nerf Grav Round are you serious? What else could we possibly do after that?

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.13.2012 , 10:57 PM | #1027
Quote: Originally Posted by Telaan View Post
So sorcerers deserve to be nerfed because of broken game mechanic?

Honestly, the class is perfectly fine. In PvP you win some, you lose some. I'll take the healer/tank comp in WZ PvP any day of the week and twice on sunday over hybrid spec sages. I'd rather throw guard on a Sent in a WZ because of their ability to burst 2-3 people down (with guard up) before they and/or I go down ourselves.

Guards and Jugs dominate Huttball, hands down. Healer/Tank comps dominate CW and VS, hands down. I'm by no means saying sorc/sage suck.....cause they don't. But QQing about them this bad is ridiculously over the top; and I suspect, brought on by an e-death, causing angst.
1. YES. Game mechanics are the basis of everything. If Melee attacks causes enough pushback to completely cancel abilities would they not be overpowered? Could I just say "it's a broken game mechanic so it's fine"? No. That's one of the most idiotic arguments mentioned here. It's like saying that 50lbs is actually 40lbs because if gravity was slightly weaker it would weigh 40lbs.


2. No. I've posted evidence against this point multiple times. I didn't post this because I died to Sorcerers. I posted this because their utility is overpowered and I dislike grossly imbalanced specs(0/20/21). I've showed screenshots where I was topping 3-4 consecutive(see time and the PvP daily for proof) warzones where I was 30-50% above the next highest. The MASS MAJORITY of Sorcerers on my server are bad. There are a few semi-skilled ones that abuse this spec to be extremely strong in PvP. The great Sorcerers that use the spec just cannot be stopped by anyone.
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Aidank's Avatar


Aidank
02.13.2012 , 10:58 PM | #1028
Quote: Originally Posted by Lormif View Post
Actually, you didnt, ill quote it for you:
Clearly referring to my sentinel

Quote:
I've got a 50 sorc, scoundrel, and my sentinel is getting there, but in terms of control none of them are even in the same ballpark,
Quote: Originally Posted by HileyQuiggley View Post
Nerf Grav Round are you serious? What else could we possibly do after that?

revned's Avatar


revned
02.13.2012 , 10:59 PM | #1029
just get it overwith and give sorcs bubblehearth
L2

Lormif's Avatar


Lormif
02.13.2012 , 10:59 PM | #1030
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
1. YES. Game mechanics are the basis of everything. If Melee attacks causes enough pushback to completely cancel abilities would they not be overpowered? Could I just say "it's a broken game mechanic so it's fine"? No. That's one of the most idiotic arguments mentioned here.


2. No. I've posted evidence against this point multiple times. I didn't post this because I died to Sorcerers. I posted this because their utility is overpowered and I dislike grossly imbalanced specs(0/20/21). I've showed screenshots where I was topping 3-4 consecutive(see time and the PvP daily for proof) warzones where I was 30-50% above the next highest. The MASS MAJORITY of Sorcerers on my server are bad. There are a few semi-skilled ones that abuse this spec to be extremely strong in PvP. The great Sorcerers that use the spec just cannot be stopped by anyone.
And I have logically countered your points, even with your ever changing magical targets.