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To those that argued against Expertise coming back.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
To those that argued against Expertise coming back.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.20.2019 , 03:28 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
In 4.x we had #1, and the thing which was terrible about that is obvious, you grind 1 set and give up playing the other half of content in the game, no-one really grinded 2 sets.
Uh, what? No one had to give up playing the other side. You could easily run SM OPs in pvp gear and get a set of pve gear fast to progress into the HM OPs. I grinded 2 sets of gear and I know a lot of other pvpers who did as well. Not every pvper is pvp only players. Some do actually play pve as well, they just focus more on pvp. Same with pve players diving into pvp. Lucky for them pvp gear during 4.x was super easy to get.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
OPSers had their game, PvPers had theirs, a waste.
How is that a waste? That's how it should be. PvP and PvE are two different game types and should be treated as such.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
In 5.x we have #2, but implemented very very wrong. The PvPers want a BiS set in 2 weeks or less of grinding, OPSers are fine with a long grind to get the set.
I think you'll be surprised to know that most pve players are not fine with a long grind. Most want a grind that ends with a actual reward like how OPs used to be with the last boss always dropping a specific token piece plus earning a currency during the raid itself. What pve players have a problem with is the RNG obviously.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
OUTSIDE THE BOX IDEA TO SOLVE IT:
Instead I would like to see this: you can have 1 set for both that still allowed PvPers and OPSers to have the appropriate length of gear grind and still allowing players to participate in both PvE/PvP. With this idea we leave the gearing to be ONE SET, but every piece will have an optional "Expertise" slot in it.

When you do daily/weekly PvPs you will gain the Expertise items such that it will take you about two weeks to be fully BiS with PvP. What I mean is, the other slots will be mostly meaningless for PvP, only the expertise will matter. And when you do ANY ACTIVITY you'll be gaining better gear for PvE, like it is now. So you'll have 1 set of gear, progressing for PvE at the PvE pace, and progressing for PvP at the PvP pace.
Not really seeing how this is better or different than simply having 2 sets of gear. Your end result is still telling people to grind twice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
I have not come accross any other ideas offered which will give us as many benefits and as few drawbacks as this. Not to mention it would be super easy to develop, just take the current gearing, add expertise slots, change PvP code to scale only based on expertise.
Because there doesn't need to be any other ideas. The system in 4.x was perfect for both pvpers and pvers.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
09.20.2019 , 08:09 PM | #42
I will explain this one more time.. and then I am giving up on this as a "discussion" to put it kindly.


Expertise is NOT a stat. It is a bolster to divide time to BiS between PvE and PvP.


What do you mean it's not a stat? Expertise did not increase your damage, nor did it increase your defence. Expertise had a percentage balance that made it so vs expertise, both players did the exact same damage. It did not change your numbers, dps, hps or threat.

If expertise wasn't a stat why did it exist? It was a PvP bolster. PvP would grind for 2 weeks and end with a gear set that was bare gear rating for OPs and Bis for PvP. Likewise, NiM gear was earned after many weeks of PvE OPs grind, "could" go toe to with expertise, but was ultimately at a number disadvantage... Because you didn't earn the gear by PvP. If I work at state farm, and Juny works at mcdonalds, Juny decides she wants to work at state farm, she doesn't get to start working with me. I've been working in insurance for XX many years, no mcdonalds noob can do my job.


Conclusion: Expertise was not a stat. It was a implemented design to seperate pvp grind from pve. Please stop argueing "bolster expertise" will work, or that making expertise a stat you buy as an external stat. This is not what it was for, nor is it a good idea.


PS: why is applyable expertise to pve gear a bad idea: because you will unlock true gear supremacy. Imagine a wz, where you go in, NiM gear, and suddenly get your head shoved through a wall by a NiM geared mando with 2018 expertise to boot. inc 80k Heatseekers.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.20.2019 , 10:12 PM | #43
I hate to break it to you, but expertise was a stat.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
09.21.2019 , 08:31 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
I will explain this one more time.. and then I am giving up on this as a "discussion" to put it kindly.


Expertise is NOT a stat. It is a bolster to divide time to BiS between PvE and PvP.


What do you mean it's not a stat? Expertise did not increase your damage, nor did it increase your defence. Expertise had a percentage balance that made it so vs expertise, both players did the exact same damage. It did not change your numbers, dps, hps or threat.

Conclusion: Expertise was not a stat. It was a implemented design to seperate pvp grind from pve. Please stop argueing "bolster expertise" will work, or that making expertise a stat you buy as an external stat. This is not what it was for, nor is it a good idea.
Sorry m8, but expertise was a stat and it did increased damage done and decreased damage taken in pvp areas.

Vs players with same amount of expertise as you, it did nothing in the end.

(For this part i dont remember the actual numbers) Say if you had 1k expertise you gained 10% damage increase and 5% damage reduction. If you added 100 more expertise you would gain like 1% more damage increase and gain 0.5% damage reduction. It is literally the same concept as any other stat like accuracy, crit, alacrity, (rip surge).

How you manage to concluded that it is not a stat like the others is very odd. The only difference is that it only worked in pvp areas where others stats worked everywhere.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
09.21.2019 , 08:47 AM | #45
because, no one seems to be able to understand what it was for, and those who do aren't bothering to tell you. or are banned from the forums.

expertise, 2018 points. https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comme..._bonus_damage/

this reddit post explains how regardless of additional dmg or dmg red you still did the same dmg. to expertise.

the inherent issue with this topic is everyone thinks expertise turned the tides, or it boosted you, or something. it didnt. vs expertise it did normal dmg.

what expertise did was, if your gear had that stat it was super easy to earn.

if it didnt? it wasnt. easy as that.

expertise gear in 4.0 I believe was 208. 208 was bottom level operation gear. it couldnt do any BiS op content. Like wise, BiS NiM gear couldnt handle ranked, or regs to a point.

its early morning so my thoughts are a little scattered but the point is, if your gear had an expertise number on it, it was easy to obtain, if it didnt, it wasnt.

(the healing thing was a whole other topic, but its why the pvp debuff you get nerfs healing by 15%)

PS: my only interest here was to explain expertises purpose, it was not to talk about the need to possess both pvp and ve set, carry multiple armor, ya dada. I dont particulary care about that, but Im not even going to bother touching on it, since they won. eric asked if we wanted expertise, they all b*tched that multiple sets were to heavy, so now we have max bolster. I have my own reasons for despising that, but not going to bother talking about it.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
09.21.2019 , 12:05 PM | #46
If you ever had a 1v1 against someone in full highend operations gear (which was 2-3 lvls higher than ranked pvp gear) vs expertise pvp gear you could definitely tell the difference.
If you did massive hits in pvp, 99% of the time it was because the other player had no expertise. This would happen in both WZs and OWPVP.
Now, wether you want to call that a stat or not is up to you guys. I’m not going to get into that. What I will say is the expertise system was a lot more involved than just separating gear or being part of Bolster because there was no Bolster in OWPVP.
There were time I would have my 208 gear on both me and my comp and would farm nodes on Yavin. You could nearly guarantee that some operations guys with much better stat gear and with much higher health, would see me as easy pickings because my health looked low, and they would jump me. It never ended well for them because my 208 Expertise gear with lower stats was boosted by having expertise take care of extra damage output and absorbing damage in a pvp situation. This wasn’t represented as an increase on the stats board. Expertise was the stat, you had to look at your combat logs to see the difference.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.21.2019 , 02:33 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
If you every had a 1v1 against someone in full highend operations gear (which was 2-3 lvls higher than ranked pvp gear) vs expertise pvp gear you could definitely tell the difference.
If you did massive hits in pvp, 99% of the time it was because the other player had no expertise. This would happen in both WZs and OWPVP.
Now, wether you want to call that a stat or not is up to you guys. I’m not going to get into that. What I will say is the expertise system was a lot more involved than just separating gear or being part of Bolster because there was no Bolster in OWPVP.
There were time I would have my 208 gear on both me and my comp and would farm nodes on Yavin. You could nearly guarantee that some operations guys with much better stat gear and with much higher health, would see me as easy pickings because my health looked low, and they would jump me. It never ended well for them because my 208 Expertise gear with lower stats was boosted by having expertise take care of extra damage output and absorbing damage in a pvp situation. This wasn’t represented as an increase on the stats board. Expertise was the stat, you had to look at your combat logs to see the difference.
Hi Trixx, I just wanted to say WB, I mean formally. WB Trixx!

P.S. I told you, you couldn't leave.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
09.21.2019 , 03:08 PM | #48
your lack of understanding for why it existed is why it will never come back. I explained why it existed, you presist in insisting it was a stat advantage, as long as you choose to see it that way, you have no one to blame but yourself for its removal from swtor.

it was removed from swtor because pve'rs insisted it was an unfair stat advantage. as long as you continue to echo their cries, swtor wont see expertise again.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.21.2019 , 04:42 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
your lack of understanding for why it existed is why it will never come back. I explained why it existed, you presist in insisting it was a stat advantage, as long as you choose to see it that way, you have no one to blame but yourself for its removal from swtor.

it was removed from swtor because pve'rs insisted it was an unfair stat advantage. as long as you continue to echo their cries, swtor wont see expertise again.
Because it was a stat advantage.....if you didn't have expertise I'm one shotting you. I did it all the time during events on pot5. Its not my fault people roll on a pvp server then run out in the open world with pve gear.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
09.21.2019 , 06:04 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
🤔 Is it a coincidence that expertise went away in the year 2018? or was the optimal expertise value a prediction, or statement of fact?
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