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Color Wars!


Asturias

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Synthetic Crystals, it’s a Sith Thang!

 

Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in light sabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration. As a result of their artificial origins, synthetic crystals created more powerful light saber blades and could be more easily augmented. Also, their common usage by Sith and other Darksiders after this discovery caused synthetic crystals to become something of a staple among such groups, and their use among Jedi was strongly discouraged.

 

Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued light saber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades". However, synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging. Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers, most individuals who utilized colors other than red were Darksiders looking to hide their affiliations

 

1. But Exar Kun had a blue light saber!

Explanation: The lightsaber of Jedi Knight Exar Kun was a device that was initially created to produce a single beam of blue-white energy. However, upon his ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Kun redesigned his lightsaber based on instructions hidden within an antiquated Sith holocron. The finished product was a double-bladed weapon imbued with dark side energy, from which sapphire blades materialized up to 1.5 meters from either end of the hilt.

(Exar Kun had learned long lost secrets from a holocron that forged the look but it is a synthetically made crystal infused with the dark side of the force.) A rarity your character is not significant enough to overshadow and take away the iconic look of this character.

 

2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3!

Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal.

(What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.)

 

3. But Mace Windu had a purple colored crystal!

In the Prequel Trilogy, Mace Windu's unique purple lightsaber was a functional change but Samuel L. Jackson, who played Windu, asked for a lightsaber to match his favorite color, and the distinct shade helped his character stand out on the battlefield from the red, blue, and green of the other lightsabers.

A rarity, nuff said!

 

4. But General Grievous fought Obi-Won with four colored light sabers!

Explanation: The General was not a Sith but a warrior who kept the light sabers of the fallen Jedi he killed. He also trained with Darth Tyranus, formerly Count Dooku and a Jedi Master. As seen in the movies (EP2 & EP3) Darth Tyranus constructed a curved helt red bladed light saber as did many other EU/OT Jedi who converted to the Dark Side.

Many Warriors who killed Jedi kept the Sabers of there victims because the weapon is hard to make but Sith go beyond that they construct a synth blade because they believe it is more powerful which is tradition.

 

5. But I got pics of different Jedi/Sith shown with different colored blades.

Explanation: Your talking about a handful of Jedi/Sith over the course of thousands years of history and not one time period. Each character recorded in the EU was unique and given a distinct difference for story, just like Mace Windu had in EP2.

Mace Windu blade was a rarity among Jedi in that period as well as the others in there period and it needs to be rare in SWTOR MMORPG.

 

6. But I don't have a Sith/Jedi!

Explanation: Every Army of every world including the one we live in used distinct colors or tracers to distingish the difference between friend and enemy(US/Germany/China/France/Brits, all use there own distinct tracer).

Star Wars is no difference as shown in the movies and other media produced to the public.

 

7. But KOTOR 1 & 2 had unrestricted colors!

Explanation: There is a huge difference between a single player game where you are the center of the world vs a MMORPG where you share that world with others. BioWARE recognizes the iconic colors for each faction and it shows on there own website and in the CG movies produced for this game.

By allowing people to switch at random it produce a situation where the norm is not the norm anymore and tradition is lost. Your not playing a Star Wars MMORPG your playing with Fashion Lions!

 

8. But why do you care?

Explanation: I am in the military where uniformity is everything!

I like many other MMOers like uniformity in our MMOs because it creates a since of realism or accomplishment when finding something rare. Rarity colors need to stay rare, period because its not Star Wars anymore and won't be much of a MMORPG!

 

Jedi used natural crystals!

According to The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force, lightsaber colors originally indicated a Jedi's role in the Order. For example, Jedi Consulars, who focused on non-violence, carried green lightsabers to symbolize peace. Jedi Guardians, on the other hand, carried blue lightsabers as a symbol of uniformity and solidarity.The lack of lightsaber color variation in the movies is a lack of colored crystals. According to Jedi vs. Sith, the Empire (Past/Present/Future) quarantined or destroyed many sources of lightsaber crystals. This left the Jedi with mostly Ilum crystals, which can only produce green or blue blades.

 

Conclusion

Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions. The symbols of the big three colors are iconic to the faction which they have been displayed upon. Posters, movies, books, cartoons, toys and comics is proof enough that Red is the faction color of the Sith, while Blue/Green is the faction color of the Jedi, regardless of a select few iconic characters. If allowed make it RARE to achieve such crystals, give us players something to look forward to, make the challenge and we will play.

 

Flame away!

Edited by Asturias
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I dont know about all that stuff you wrote, but yea it is abit annoying that you hardly see any jedis with blue or green sabers, i know someone will come in here and tell us that lorewise jedis and siths can use any color they want, but as you say, green/blue for jedi and red for sith is iconic, and tbh what the vast majority uses.
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I dont know about all that stuff you wrote, but yea it is abit annoying that you hardly see any jedis with blue or green sabers, i know someone will come in here and tell us that lorewise jedis and siths can use any color they want, but as you say, green/blue for jedi and red for sith is iconic, and tbh what the vast majority uses.

 

Glad someone sees the logic behind it, thanks bud!

Edited by Asturias
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I agree 100% with the OP about color crystals and their restrictions to either light or dark. BW needs to stop trying to see how far they can bend the SW canon just to make a quick buck to satisfy whining non-SW fans.

 

If said players don't like Star Wars lore, then they should just deal with it or play a non-Star Wars game.

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I agree 100% with the OP about color crystals and their restrictions to either light or dark. BW needs to stop trying to see how far they can bend the SW canon just to make a quick buck to satisfy whining non-SW fans.

 

If said players don't like Star Wars lore, then they should just deal with it or play a non-Star Wars game.

 

Right on!

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I like my light side sith jugg using a blue saber, and really don't see where this would be anymore wrong than being a light side sith in the first place.

 

But to the op a very good read indead.

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OP, I love your knowledge and enthusiasm when it comes to the lore, but people should have the freedom to choose their own path and create their own story. You can ignore them, if you must, but let them play how they wish to play.
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I like my light side sith jugg using a blue saber, and really don't see where this would be anymore wrong than being a light side sith in the first place.

 

But to the op a very good read indead.

 

That is the thing, regardless of being light sided/dark sided, if your faction is being a Sith than your character was brought up in the beliefs that a synthetic crystal is more powerful. A light sided Sith is not necessarily pure light side, you just choose to take a different approach to handling things. I do believe that a light sided Sith should be able to equip a Red Saber but a Dark Jedi should not.

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OP, I love your knowledge and enthusiasm when it comes to the lore, but people should have the freedom to choose their own path and create their own story. You can ignore them, if you must, but let them play how they wish to play.

 

Than the pazzaz of the of the game will be lost for a lot of hard core fan. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the game but this is a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

I just don't like how BioWARE is pissing on such iconic symbols to please a minority group that have no clue.

Edited by Asturias
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Than the pazzaz of the of the game will be lost for a lot of hard core fan. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the game but this is a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

I just don't like how BioWARE is pissing on such iconic symbols to please a minority group that have no clue.

 

You shouldn't let it bother you. Personally, if I rolled a Jedi, I wouldn't want a red saber, even if I went dark. But that's just me and what others choose to do doesn't really matter.

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the 50 other threads telling you how wrong you are just weren't enough?

 

Only one thread that I have ever been in regarding this and all I heard was, whineing from people that couldn't justify the reason except for "I just want to".

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You shouldn't let it bother you. Personally, if I rolled a Jedi, I wouldn't want a red saber, even if I went dark. But that's just me and what others choose to do doesn't really matter.

 

Well, according to lore a Dark Sided Jedi wouldn't want to expose himself do to the adverse action that would be taken against him from the Jedi Counsel.

Edited by Asturias
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Or you could deal with the fact that it isn't game breaking, but that having an inanimate object that you absolutely must be able to use in combat suddenly deciding that it doesn't like you because it somehow knows your alignment is. If you want your character to be "iconic" (or boring and exactly the same as everyone else), you are more than free to use that color.

 

Also, it's a little funny that a Bounty Hunter (can't use a lightsaber) is trying to tell other people how to play their characters. I've always laughed at the "Let me tell you how to play, but don't tell me how to play" attitude every RPer takes.

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Or you could deal with the fact that it isn't game breaking, but that having an inanimate object that you absolutely must be able to use in combat suddenly deciding that it doesn't like you because it somehow knows your alignment is. If you want your character to be "iconic" (or boring and exactly the same as everyone else), you are more than free to use that color.

 

Also, it's a little funny that a Bounty Hunter (can't use a lightsaber) is trying to tell other people how to play their characters. I've always laughed at the "Let me tell you how to play, but don't tell me how to play" attitude every RPer takes.

 

No character is the same nor is each force users helt but the method and Ideology of the two factions is a given lore wise regardless of light side/dark side choices. Your character is still unque.

Edited by Asturias
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I agree 100% with the OP about color crystals and their restrictions to either light or dark. BW needs to stop trying to see how far they can bend the SW canon just to make a quick buck to satisfy whining non-SW fans.

 

If said players don't like Star Wars lore, then they should just deal with it or play a non-Star Wars game.

There's no bending of SW canon going on. Thousands of years before the films, and not quite a decade AFTER the films, colors were completely unrestricted. This has been the 'lore' for decades, and is STILL the lore in new comics and novels set in those eras. Sith tend to favor red, but they are not restricted to it. Jedi have always favored blue and green, even in Luke's NJO, but many other colors are common. And purple has only been a rarity in ONE place: the Prequels. Before AOTC, at least 2 members of the Jedi Council had purple blades. Two of Han & Leia's children used purple sabers. KOTOR saw purple crystals dropping all over the place.

 

There is ZERO lore that says purple should be rare in the era of SWTOR, particularly with all the NPCs sporting them. It's whining movie-only fans that are complaining that color restrictions should be restored; it's fans of Star Wars in its entirety--comics, books, and games included--that want much more variety among saber colors. And the bit about Exar Kun and the player not being significant enough to overshadow his feats; I beg to differ. According to the player stories in the game, Consulars, Knights, Inquisitors, and Warriors are all EXCEPTIONAL. We are playing the next Exar Kuns, the next Revans, the next Lukes. In a story-driven game, that absolutely takes precedence over the fact that there's 50 'next Revans' running around the Fleet at any given time, even if they're ALL running with purple saber blades.

 

The bottom line is that saber color in the EU--where this game takes place--is equal parts tradition and preference. And there are other ways to make alignment choices count; saber color shouldn't be one of them.

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There's no bending of SW canon going on. Thousands of years before the films, and not quite a decade AFTER the films, colors were completely unrestricted. This has been the 'lore' for decades, and is STILL the lore in new comics and novels set in those eras. Sith tend to favor red, but they are not restricted to it. Jedi have always favored blue and green, even in Luke's NJO, but many other colors are common. And purple has only been a rarity in ONE place: the Prequels. Before AOTC, at least 2 members of the Jedi Council had purple blades. Two of Han & Leia's children used purple sabers. KOTOR saw purple crystals dropping all over the place.

 

There is ZERO lore that says purple should be rare in the era of SWTOR, particularly with all the NPCs sporting them. It's whining movie-only fans that are complaining that color restrictions should be restored; it's fans of Star Wars in its entirety--comics, books, and games included--that want much more variety among saber colors. And the bit about Exar Kun and the player not being significant enough to overshadow his feats; I beg to differ. According to the player stories in the game, Consulars, Knights, Inquisitors, and Warriors are all EXCEPTIONAL. We are playing the next Exar Kuns, the next Revans, the next Lukes. In a story-driven game, that absolutely takes precedence over the fact that there's 50 'next Revans' running around the Fleet at any given time, even if they're ALL running with purple saber blades.

 

The bottom line is that saber color in the EU--where this game takes place--is equal parts tradition and preference. And there are other ways to make alignment choices count; saber color shouldn't be one of them.

 

According to the EU (Expanded universe) This is how mace got his Purple crystal.

"In 58 BBY, a young Mace Windu was sent to Hurikane on a mission as a Padawan. In exchange for helping the stone-encrusted native species, Windu was given a handful of the rare violet Hurrikane crystals, which he used to create his unique electrum lightsaber."

 

Its a rare crystal of all eras.

Edited by Asturias
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I dont know about all that stuff you wrote, but yea it is abit annoying that you hardly see any jedis with blue or green sabers, i know someone will come in here and tell us that lorewise jedis and siths can use any color they want, but as you say, green/blue for jedi and red for sith is iconic, and tbh what the vast majority uses.

 

You're own argument for the restrictions(which is often repeated) defeats itself. It keeps being thrown around that "every Jedi is now using a red lightsaber" due to the restriction being lifted. Now this in itself shows that the majority of the people(at least according to the people for the restriction) playing the game would rather have what color crystal they want as opposed to being restricted, while the minority being the people that are angry at the fact that it is being done. If this is indeed the case then it just shows that Bioware is going with the smart business choice and keeping the MAJORITY happy, not the vocal minority that must control how other characters look so they can enjoy their game, completely justifying the removal of the color crystal restriction.

 

If so many people thought the same way as you did about factions/alignment using certain colors you wouldn't be complaining about it in the first place as there would be very few people that would want to use a different color.

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According to "Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers, most individuals who utilized colors other than red were Darksiders looking to hide their affiliations" it sounds like the only real restriction that would make sense would be for Republic to be restricted from using red, since your argument also concedes that "However, synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging."

 

Regarding the purple lightsabers, is your argument simply that they should be rare, or are you trying to state that they shouldn't be in the game at all? The argument seems a bit moot when you consider the fact that (1) Episode 1 is in a completely different time period and (2) that, as in your own previously stated argument, "...synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging." So, are you trying to only restrict the Republic from using it since it doesn't occur naturally?

 

Overall, it sounds like the only leg to stand on would be that the Republic should be restricted from using colors that don't occur naturally. Call me crazy, but I don't think that'd be a very good move, considering there are already issues with populations favoring Empire overall.

 

Lastly, if we're going to bring movies into it again, aside from the obvious point of the game taking place in a very different time period, I'd like to point out that colors were mainly added post-production to make it easier for the audience to discern the good guys from the bad, and that if they hadn't made said changes, the lightsabers would've been white.

Edited by Llaera
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There's no bending of SW canon going on. Thousands of years before the films, and not quite a decade AFTER the films, colors were completely unrestricted. This has been the 'lore' for decades, and is STILL the lore in new comics and novels set in those eras. Sith tend to favor red, but they are not restricted to it. Jedi have always favored blue and green, even in Luke's NJO, but many other colors are common. And purple has only been a rarity in ONE place: the Prequels. Before AOTC, at least 2 members of the Jedi Council had purple blades. Two of Han & Leia's children used purple sabers. KOTOR saw purple crystals dropping all over the place.

 

There is ZERO lore that says purple should be rare in the era of SWTOR, particularly with all the NPCs sporting them. It's whining movie-only fans that are complaining that color restrictions should be restored; it's fans of Star Wars in its entirety--comics, books, and games included--that want much more variety among saber colors. And the bit about Exar Kun and the player not being significant enough to overshadow his feats; I beg to differ. According to the player stories in the game, Consulars, Knights, Inquisitors, and Warriors are all EXCEPTIONAL. We are playing the next Exar Kuns, the next Revans, the next Lukes. In a story-driven game, that absolutely takes precedence over the fact that there's 50 'next Revans' running around the Fleet at any given time, even if they're ALL running with purple saber blades.

 

The bottom line is that saber color in the EU--where this game takes place--is equal parts tradition and preference. And there are other ways to make alignment choices count; saber color shouldn't be one of them.

 

As you say...

 

I think something being forgotten or looked past is the fact that if we are to assume that colors aren't restricted, they are more or less used exclusively by specific groups. You use the word "tradition" to clarify this--which I would agree with.

 

That said, we as players don't live by those traditions and have no semblance of understanding how deeply binding those traditions might be. Meaning, if I am a Sith of any degree, what are the chances that I break from tradition and use blue saber crystals? On the other side, how likely am I as a Jedi knight to break from tradition and possibly earn the mistrust of my fellow Jedi by using a red saber crystal?

 

We have answers to those questions in the form of cross-faction color usage being a rarity.

 

The point is, whether or not there are hard-coded restrictions, there are consequences for breaking with traditions within the universe we are playing. A player should have their choice, but there should be consequences for those actions (isn't that part of story?).

 

So when a Jedi struts into the Senate on Coruscant and ignites his red lightsaber, I think more than a few heads should turn--and a very admonishing conversation be had with Satele. On the other side of the coin, when a Sith marches into Baras' chambers and shows off his blue or green lightsaber, I think a few minutes at the mercy of Force lightning might shed some light on the gravity of choosing to break with custom.

 

I guess my point is that using "tradition not restriction" as an argument is not a completely sturdy position to stand on; tradition implies understanding of the tradition, and we simply don't--despite our knowledge of lore (the difference between knowledge and wisdom).

 

I think the hard-coded restrictions help provide a sense of what these traditions are.

Edited by Dezzi
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You're own argument for the restrictions(which is often repeated) defeats itself. It keeps being thrown around that "every Jedi is now using a red lightsaber" due to the restriction being lifted. Now this in itself shows that the majority of the people(at least according to the people for the restriction) playing the game would rather have what color crystal they want as opposed to being restricted, while the minority being the people that are angry at the fact that it is being done. If this is indeed the case then it just shows that Bioware is going with the smart business choice and keeping the MAJORITY happy, not the vocal minority that must control how other characters look so they can enjoy their game, completely justifying the removal of the color crystal restriction.

 

If so many people thought the same way as you did about factions/alignment using certain colors you wouldn't be complaining about it in the first place as there would be very few people that would want to use a different color.

 

My argument is that by taking away the restriction of colored crystals will ruin the unqueness of the two factions. This is the same crap Sony did but except it was the unlocking of the Jedi Class. Star Wars fan left that crap tastic idea by canceling in droves.

Edited by Asturias
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I agree 100% with the OP about color crystals and their restrictions to either light or dark. BW needs to stop trying to see how far they can bend the SW canon just to make a quick buck to satisfy whining non-SW fans.

 

If said players don't like Star Wars lore, then they should just deal with it or play a non-Star Wars game.

 

Lucas has stated before that the only things that are canon are the films and the TV series, everything else is just fan fiction. So with that in mind, it's great that Bioware gives us the tools to create our own stories and role play the way we want in a role playing game.

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As you say...

 

I think something being forgotten or looked past is the fact that if we are to assume that colors aren't restricted, they are more or less used exclusively by specific groups. You use the word "tradition" to clarify this--which I would agree with.

 

That said, we as players don't live by those traditions and have no semblance of understanding how deeply binding those traditions might be. Meaning, if I am a Sith of any degree, what are the chances that I break from tradition and use blue saber crystals? On the other side, how likely am I as a Jedi knight to break from tradition and possibly earn the mistrust of my fellow Jedi by using a red saber crystal?

 

We have answers to those questions in the form of cross-faction color usage being a rarity.

 

The point is, whether or not there are hard-coded restrictions, there are consequences for breaking with traditions within the universe we are playing. A player should have their choice, but there should be consequences for those actions (isn't that part of story?).

 

So when a Jedi struts into the Senate on Coruscant and ignites his red lightsaber, I think more than a few heads should turn--and a very admonishing conversation be had with Satele. On the other side of the coin, when a Sith marches into Baras' chambers and shows off his blue or green lightsaber, I think a few minutes at the mercy of Force lightning might shed some light on the gravity of choosing to break with custom.

 

I guess my point is that using "tradition not restriction" as an argument is not a completely sturdy position to stand on; tradition implies understanding of the tradition, and we simply don't despite our--knowledge of lore (the difference between knowledge and wisdom).

 

I think the hard-coded restrictions help provide a sense of what these traditions are.

 

Well said and I couldn't have said it better.

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My argument is that be taking away the pazzaz of the faction restricted colored crystals will ruin the unqueness of the two factions. This is the same crap Sony did but except it was the unlocking of the Jedi Class. Star Wars fan left that crap tastic idea by canceling in droves.

 

Bye.

 

Appealing to Star Wars "lore"? Really? C'mon. Star Wars is a joke now in the post prequel world. It's garbage.

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