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Operatives/Scoundrels are the bane of my existence


EAbovee

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Curse you few that are experts at these classes (shout out to Telessi of Shadowlands). I don't even have too many issues with sins and PTs anymore because the majority of those that are rerolling as FOTM aren't that great. However, I have had absolutely AWFUL experiences with operatives. The most stinging of which was an operative capable of holding off a group of 4+ people from extending a bridge in Voidstar alone for ~1 minute.

 

I must be missing something here. Would any of you who are familiar with the class and it's abilities enlighten me on how exactly to thwart them from stabbing me into oblivion? Any insight would be great because I like my back to be free of gaping wounds. :rolleyes:

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I heard that it is theoretically potentially maybe possible to root them. I am inclined to believe it's an urban legend, because normally they cc you first, and once they do, you are toast. Balmorra's not yet recovered enough from the civil war to supply the arsenal needed to shut down a single operatives/scoundrel.

 

That's why I enjoy whenever I can manage a leap-push-leap sequence on any one of that class I can see. It gives a short, sweet gimps of almost killing one.... there is a thread in the class forum, which gives a scoundrel's.operative's perspectives on the other classes. Very illuminating.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=803575

Edited by DomiSotto
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It would be easier to help you if you could provide us with a wee bit of info so the responses are less generalized and hopefully can be more directly relating to the class you are playing. Class/Spec/level/utilities/gear will be a nice start. Please share. :)

 

Roll-

One "general" tip on operatives/scoundrels is to understand that "rolling is life". If I can't roll then I can't be nearly as competitive as I want to be. More importantly, I can't get away to leech a few more seconds of life from an encounter. When I can't roll I know there is a very high likelihood that I may need to start popping some of my CD's. I don't wanna do that. I'd rather just roll. So this stresses me and makes start to look for escape routes if things do get hot and I need to vanish/stealth. So now my concentration is...lets say "thinned" a bit? People, on average, do not make good decisions when under pressure. One of the easiest ways to apply some simple passive pressure to ops/scounds is to prevent them from rolling with something like electro-net. GRRR! Any "slow" is irritating to me when on my operative. More than any other class, possibly?

 

Dots-

Yuck! Get them off of me...NAOW! Hate the dots, I do. Dot me the moment you see me if you can apply it before I open on you or another person. :D

It's more passive pressure that prevents me from being able to simply stealth out. I know if I need to vanish....but if dotted...I am also gonna need to use a cleanse before I stealth or I am going to need to use evasion....which means I can't use evasion to avoid a potential big incoming hit if I need to use it to escape. So dot me, watch me cleanse it, then dot me again. Although not all operatives cleanse....so ya got that goin' for ya! ;)

 

The Pocket-

Stay face to face with me. Don't let me get in the pocket. That's the "dance" you gotta learn. Keep me in front of you and don't let me get behind you. When I'm sitting in the pocket..? My tools...and worse for you, my "options" increase a lot. Don't let me stand there. You'll regret it 99/100 times. I will be angling for that position the moment I happen on you. You should be angling to keep me in front of you, always.

 

Anyways, more information from ya, my man. :)

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Curse you few that are experts at these classes (shout out to Telessi of Shadowlands). I don't even have too many issues with sins and PTs anymore because the majority of those that are rerolling as FOTM aren't that great. However, I have had absolutely AWFUL experiences with operatives. The most stinging of which was an operative capable of holding off a group of 4+ people from extending a bridge in Voidstar alone for ~1 minute.

 

I must be missing something here. Would any of you who are familiar with the class and it's abilities enlighten me on how exactly to thwart them from stabbing me into oblivion? Any insight would be great because I like my back to be free of gaping wounds. :rolleyes:

 

You are correct in that many of the people still playing dps ops have been doing so for a LONG time and aren't rerollers so they really know their stuff. That makes them more difficult no that they are in a better place.

 

It really just comes down to experience fighting them. The single operative should not have been able to hold 4 of you off that long so a big part of that is on your team. But operatives can be slippery...especially concealment. It's main survivability is roll so you need to learn to time your roots properly. Once you do you will have much more success. Also timing stuns properly will help a lot as well. As far as dealing with being sapped while trying to cap...that comes down to your team. You can only sap 1 person at a time and 2 saps = white bar. Take that information and put strategies into practice to force them out of stealth....then the fight becomes easier. Then practice applying roots/stuns at the proper time and 4 people should be able to kill the operative fairly quickly.

 

You also have to understand that concealment (probably the one your having trouble with) is at its absolute strongest in a 1v1. Your team really should have been able to handle a 4v1 a lot quicker. But I will do my best to educate you on how to counter concealment operatives....though it would be easier to know which class you play.

 

Operative Defenses

Shield probe: Absorbs damage (6-8k) on a relatively short cooldown.

 

Evasion: purge and full protection from white damage on a short cooldown if they take heroic utility. ops use this to varying levels of success. The smart ones will use the purge to screw over dot classes for a few seconds. With most dot classes I will usually wait till they totally load their dots and buffs up (madness sorc/lethality op/virulence sniper) and then purge. With a class like hatred sin sometimes I will purge right after they put discharge on me because it will prevent them from proc'ing demolish...sometimes I will wait for demolish...but the initial hit of demolish can hit pretty hard (I've hit someone for 7.5k with the initial tick). One thing to note though is that unlike with shroud you can immediately reapply your dots even while they have evasion up because it provides no protection against yellow damage (dots are yellow). They will also use evasion for protection against heavy white damage such as ravage, blazing bolts, ambush, etc. It's duration is short enough that it will only protect them from a couple white attacks.

 

self heals: heals them maintain health pool, but is not burst healing.

 

Roll: complete immunity for 1.5 seconds when you roll. This is mainly used to counter high burst attacks and heavy channels (TD, ambush, HSM, thundering blast, blazing bolts, etc). It is a unique defense mechanism that requires extensive knowledge of other classes and their attacks and rotations as they have to anticipate the attacks unless they can see a cast or the beginning of a channel.

 

cc: can be used offensively or defensively.

 

Cloaking Screen: This is their exit combat and last resort. Heroic utility can be taken to for it to proc evasion for a couple seconds. They can't heal or attack while in stealth so they have to go hide to heal back up and come back to you. Is nice in regs and ranked alike, but significantly handicaps the team in ranked when you have to hide and heal up.

 

Counters:

Shield probe: its just straight up damage absorption of a low-moderate amount. It helps the op, but is fairly easy to get past. A single high burst attack will pop it. Or you can save that burst and put some sustained on them and use the high burst after it pops.

 

Evasion: The main counter to this ability is to switch to yellow damage. Evasion provides zero protection against yellow damage. For dot specs the main thing to do is get them to pop evasion as soon as possible by either loading them up on dots to force it or by using heavy white damage if available. You can also trick them. For example, if I'm fighting a virulence sniper I will basically use evasion right after they use weakening blast because I figure they will use cull right afterward (95% of the time they do), but 5% of them will not waste that cull because they figured I would use evasion. So they proceed to reapply their dots real quick and then cull...and they only lost a couple seconds instead of several seconds. If I am fighting an op using my MM sniper and I know they don't have roll available I will start casting ambush hoping that they they will pop evasion. If they have evasion up most will pop it to mitigate ambush...so I cancel the cast and wait a few seconds (throw a grenade at them or something since it is yellow damage) and then recast it. Fake casting and using decoy dots help against evasion, but its mostly about anticipating when they will use it. You can also stun them during evasion.

 

Roll: this is the main one that people need to learn how to deal with because it is the newest thing on their survivability toolbelt. Roll is a very potent survivability tool for concealment, but it is very counterable when you learn how to time things properly. Roll offers complete immunity for 1.5 seconds each roll, but comes at the expense of damage and using a gap closer for defense instead of closing gaps (the trade off is very fair IMO). The main weakness of roll is that you cannot roll while rooted...this is a good thing even though some crazy ops say it should break roots, but dont listen to them because they are crazy. Roots are the best counter to roll. You have to anticipate the roll just like I have to anticipate the high burst. You have to root them before they roll because it wont work during roll or for a second after roll (they have 1.5 seconds of immunity starting with activation). This is why they are hard 1v1 because you most likely only have 1 root. They become significantly weaker in team environments because people can chain roots on them and they are impotent. If they can't roll they will die for sure. So it's all about learning how to time your roots and anticipate the roll.

 

cc: general rule is to not break mezzes and to not break the first cc effect. He can't damage you during the mez because if he does it will break it. Two cc effects will give you full resolve and then you can break the second effect.

 

Self heals: not really counterable, but they are slow ticking dots so you can easily out damage them if you can keep them from rolling by timing your roots well.

 

Cloaking Screen: best counter to this is stealth scan and aoe. If you are a bounty hunter make sure to have stealth scan bound drop it immediately when they vanish. Well place aoe can knock them out of stealth as well. Gotta be quick to do this when they hit their escape.

 

The big take away is that ops are very powerful 1v1, but balanced in team environments because their main tool (roll) becomes much much more easily countered. Timing is key as well as learning to trick them into wasting it. Fake cast ambush to get them to roll. Start casting thundering blast to get them to roll and then cancel the cast. I did not give all my secrets, but this very general information should help you to begin countering ops more easily.

 

Also note that concealment is basically a pure melee yellow damage spec. If you have yellow damage mitigation (shroud, saber reflect) then use it on them. For absorbs/shields/etc...pop them right in the middle of the fight (as in after 2-3 seconds) as that is probably when volatile substance is about to go off and laceration spam is beginning. If you are ranged knock them back and root/snare and kite. If you are melee use what control is available to you.

 

Last note: some classes will have an absolute awful time against concealment (namely mercs, maras, and snipers) as concealment's defenses work perfectly against their damage and they have very predictable damage. Maras just suck...so yeah. Other classes have an easier time...juggs, sorcs, sins, and other ops, pts if they are willing to go with the idea that TD will just be used as a decoy to get them to roll.

Edited by Saikochoro
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This is fantastic information, thank you all.

 

I split my time between my Seer Sage and Focus Guardian. While using my sage, I have made a point to use weaken mind on an op when I have the opportunity (wish I could spec into the utility that causes the 30% slow when applied :( ). I am actually not having too many issues with the sage because I have quite a few options in terms of escapability while using him.

 

Most of my issues stemmed while I was on my focus guardian. Guardians in general have nice defensive CDs but Focus does not have as many DOTs as Vigilance or root breakers. Force Exhaustion is nice to apply on ops but it only lasts three seconds and, like Wicked and Saiko mentioned, it can be cleansed (which also removes my ability to get three stacks of singularity :mad: ). I do have two closing abilities (force leap and zealous leap) but with as many rolls as ops have, it's very difficult to keep the pressure on them when I have them on the ropes. If an op gets the jump on me (which it fees like they always do), my *** is grass. Any tips for my Focus Guardian i.e. when to pop CDs, timing of leaps, force stasis, force push, etc. :)

 

Edit: Saiko, info for the CDs on my guardian is great. What I've been doing is pop saber reflect at beginning of encounter followed by saber ward. That sound about right?

Edited by EAbovee
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This is fantastic information, thank you all.

 

I split my time between my Seer Sage and Focus Guardian. While using my sage, I have made a point to use weaken mind on an op when I have the opportunity (wish I could spec into the utility that causes the 30% slow when applied :( ). I am actually not having too many issues with the sage because I have quite a few options in terms of escapability while using him.

 

Most of my issues stemmed while I was on my focus guardian. Guardians in general have nice defensive CDs but Focus does not have as many DOTs as Vigilance or root breakers. Force Exhaustion is nice to apply on ops but it only lasts three seconds and, like Wicked and Saiko mentioned, it can be cleansed (which also removes my ability to get three stacks of singularity :mad: ). I do have two closing abilities (force leap and zealous leap) but with as many rolls as ops have, it's very difficult to keep the pressure on them when I have them on the ropes. If an op gets the jump on me (which it fees like they always do), my *** is grass. Any tips for my Focus Guardian i.e. when to pop CDs, timing of leaps, force stasis, force push, etc. :)

 

Edit: Saiko, info for the CDs on my guardian is great. What I've been doing is pop saber reflect at beginning of encounter followed by saber ward. That sound about right?

 

Guardians have different techniques for dealing with concealment depending on the spec. Focus has the advantage of better burst and less reliant on white damage. I will give you a scenario from both points of view as I play rage juggs a lot...sorry but I will be using imp names.

 

I have to figure out how smart the op is. So I will do something simple like run up to him and use ravage. If he just eats it then I know it is a bad op. If he mitigates it somehow I will be a bit more wary. If he mitigates it with a stun, then meh I don't think I will have many problems. If he mitigates it with evasion, then that is a very valid use for that cooldown. If he uses countermeasures to break the root and roll, then I know he is probably a smart op. (Now this is assuming I have the benefit of getting to him while he is out of stealth).

 

If the op opens on me, I will usually save saber reflect for laceration spam....that is going to be the biggest chunk of damage. Laceration hits hard and can be chained 3 times in a row, followed by veiled strike and another laceration. I want them to eat part of that damage. The smart ones will just stop attacking you when you have saber reflect up. They cant even rifle shot you because reflect also counters that. On my op I will just try rooting you and waiting for it to end. So saber reflect is main go to cooldown for concealment ops. Saber ward is also helpful but on a longer cooldown so take it as you will. As far as enraged defense goes...be aware that they have hard hitting attacks so don't wait till you only have a sliver of health left as they will most likely burst through it. Optimally you should time it to coincide with backstab and laceration spam as that will give you the most number of hits that heal you in the shortest time frame. One good way to break up their damage is to use force push then leap to them at which point the ball is in your court and you can:

 

Scenario 1:

Leap to op and immediately use burst attacks. As an op I will pop shield probe immediately when i see you leaping to me. This will mitigate most of raging burst. Then I can save evasion for furious strike or force crush + ravage combo that a lot of people seem to use. There goes your high burst and your ability to get stacks of shockwave. This method works on ops if they are either dumb or don't have cooldowns.

 

Scenario 2:

Leap to op and use ravage instead. They will usually either stun you or use evasion. Most wont want to pop shield probe and evasion at the same time so they will probably stick with evasion. I've tested it and evasion doesn't get rid of the ravage root for some reason...I always rubber band back into it so it prevents me from rolling most of the time...otherwise this scenario doesnt work as well. The dumb ones will think you are vengeance because you started with ravage and will forget about raging burst. Even if they don't forget about raging burst they will have to waste another cooldown to mitigate it. Once they pop evasion just clip your ravage and immediately use raging burst....bam they just got hit for full damage from a high burst attack. By now evasion will be gone and you are free to use furious strike for full damage. If they are lucky and evasion gets rid of the ravage root for them and they roll just treat is like you would if they used countermeasures to break the root and roll...cept now the op doesnt have evasion. Make sure to not give them too much time to control you as they will most likely immediately start attacking you as well. No the good ops will use countermeasures and roll out of ravage because they probably know your trick...so dont use raging burst when they roll. Just go after them...the are melee they will have to come back to you if they want to fight you. Once you are in range use raging burst. I like to keep control on them by pushing them or choking them. I want to force them to use their cooldowns as fast as possible.

 

There is no silver bullet. The good ops will give you problems for sure, but don't always stick to leap + raging burst way of opening as it is very predictable and can be countered. Hope that helps a little.

Edited by Saikochoro
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Would any of you who are familiar with the class and it's abilities enlighten me on how exactly to thwart them from stabbing me into oblivion?

 

The most insightful thing to do would be to roll one (ba dum tss) to understand how exactly timing and keeping people off-balance plays into what they do and when. You might end up loving it and stick with it too.

 

Good players that are used to them often deal with their **** well, but the majority of players get overwhelmed or confused to some degree. For example I'm liking all the people that ignore the blood boiler animation and think I'm starting to run away to kite; when really I'm about to circle back through them for more burst.

Edited by Joesixxpack
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This is fantastic information, thank you all.

 

I split my time between my Seer Sage and Focus Guardian. While using my sage, I have made a point to use weaken mind on an op when I have the opportunity (wish I could spec into the utility that causes the 30% slow when applied :( ). I am actually not having too many issues with the sage because I have quite a few options in terms of escapability while using him.

 

Most of my issues stemmed while I was on my focus guardian. Guardians in general have nice defensive CDs but Focus does not have as many DOTs as Vigilance or root breakers. Force Exhaustion is nice to apply on ops but it only lasts three seconds and, like Wicked and Saiko mentioned, it can be cleansed (which also removes my ability to get three stacks of singularity :mad: ). I do have two closing abilities (force leap and zealous leap) but with as many rolls as ops have, it's very difficult to keep the pressure on them when I have them on the ropes. If an op gets the jump on me (which it fees like they always do), my *** is grass. Any tips for my Focus Guardian i.e. when to pop CDs, timing of leaps, force stasis, force push, etc. :)

 

Edit: Saiko, info for the CDs on my guardian is great. What I've been doing is pop saber reflect at beginning of encounter followed by saber ward. That sound about right?

 

As a jugg, it's generally a good idea to pop saber reflect literally as soon as the op opens on you, and then saber ward in about 10 seconds as then his backstab will be off cooldown. Volatile substance does not reflect unfortunately, but you can mitigate a large portion of the op's opener with reflect (literally the only thing they could hit you with then is applying dots or spamming carbine burst, which hits for like nothing). Or hell, just try and force push them as soon as they open. You want to interrupt that starting burst, because if you don't, about 60% of your HP is going to be gone within ~4-5 seconds. Most ops open with Backstab > Volatile Substance > Veiled Strike > Laceration > Laceration.

 

And sometimes, the animation for saber reflect doesn't load right away for the other person, this happens to me all the time. Juggs are always very predictable, though, and I'm usually just staring at their buff bar for reflect, endure pain, and enraged defense.

 

This goes for all classes, but make sure you pop enraged defense when there is a DoT on you!!! To ensure you'll get at least SOME heals, if the other person is smart enough not to attack you.

 

Also, props for not crying, "OPERATIVE IS OP PLS NERF11!!1!" and actually seeking help.

Edited by QuiveringPotato
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Scenario 2:

Leap to op and use ravage instead. They will usually either stun you or use evasion. Most wont want to pop shield probe and evasion at the same time so they will probably stick with evasion. I've tested it and evasion doesn't get rid of the ravage root for some reason...I always rubber band back into it so it prevents me from rolling most of the time...otherwise this scenario doesnt work as well. The dumb ones will think you are vengeance because you started with ravage and will forget about raging burst. Even if they don't forget about raging burst they will have to waste another cooldown to mitigate it. Once they pop evasion just clip your ravage and immediately use raging burst....bam they just got hit for full damage from a high burst attack. By now evasion will be gone and you are free to use furious strike for full damage. If they are lucky and evasion gets rid of the ravage root for them and they roll just treat is like you would if they used countermeasures to break the root and roll...cept now the op doesnt have evasion. Make sure to not give them too much time to control you as they will most likely immediately start attacking you as well. No the good ops will use countermeasures and roll out of ravage because they probably know your trick...so dont use raging burst when they roll. Just go after them...the are melee they will have to come back to you if they want to fight you. Once you are in range use raging burst. I like to keep control on them by pushing them or choking them. I want to force them to use their cooldowns as fast as possible.

 

This! I believe this may be that silver nugget of info I was searching for. I didn't even give consideration of opening with Master Strike as a feint! Thank you Saiko!

 

The most insightful thing to do would be to roll one (ba dum tss) to understand how exactly timing and keeping people off-balance plays into what they do and when. You might end up loving it and stick with it too.

 

Maybe one day. I went sniper instead of op when I rolled my agent. ><

 

Also, props for not crying, "OPERATIVE IS OP PLS NERF11!!1!" and actually seeking help.

 

Lol, yeah. I knew it was prolly just my inexperience dealing with them because I hadn't seen many of the other salty PvPers on the forums complain about them. The moment I get that solo kill on a (good) op will be glorious. I may just parade the screenshot on the board. :rak_01: Until then, I hope not to make too much of an *** of myself while slogging through the learning curve.

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This! I believe this may be that silver nugget of info I was searching for. I didn't even give consideration of opening with Master Strike as a feint! Thank you Saiko!

 

Maybe one day. I went sniper instead of op when I rolled my agent. ><

 

Lol, yeah. I knew it was prolly just my inexperience dealing with them because I hadn't seen many of the other salty PvPers on the forums complain about them. The moment I get that solo kill on a (good) op will be glorious. I may just parade the screenshot on the board. :rak_01: Until then, I hope not to make too much of an *** of myself while slogging through the learning curve.

 

No problem. I have no problem giving some tips to people that ask for them. I hope it helps you out. You should roll and op one of these days...they are a ton of fun. I commend you on asking for advice instead of jumping straight to the "ops are op" conclusion...I can learn a lesson or two from you in that respect.

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Thank you guys, that's a lot to take in, but it is golden. :) One of the things I really want to learn on my vigilance is to counter Operatives, because they as an OP mentioned can really twist a team around their little finger. Edited by DomiSotto
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Honestly i fear a good Op far more than i do most Sins at this point.

Most good Ops i know are ops by choice.. they aren't chasing FOTM like so many sins are... they play the class because they like it, they get it, and they can shut me down a lot better than most of the random sins i see can more consistently.

Edited by Floplag
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Honestly i fear a good Op far more than i do most Sins at this point.

Most good Ops i know are ops by choice.. they aren't chasing FOTM like so many sins are... they play the class because they like it, they get it, and they can shut me down a lot better than most of the random sins i see can more consistently.

 

yeah. that's been true of concealment for a while.

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I must be missing something here. Would any of you who are familiar with the class and it's abilities enlighten me on how exactly to thwart them from stabbing me into oblivion?

 

I'd suggest you roll one and play it for a while, you'll see where the strengths and weaknesses of the class lay, I find them fairly balanced. Hard to fight, but also fun to fight. It's the really good ones that have been playing the class for a long time that are troublesome.

 

As said above, DoT the hell out of them (even as an arsenal merc you can do this), keep them in front of you (if ranged keep some distance and kite them, even with the lolroll you should be in a much better place). Learn when to use abilities against them, if they're rolling, hold off a little during / after the roll and time your abilities so they simply can't lolroll away your burst (:p).

 

Do not, ever, let them get behind you. They're not overly troublesome if you learn what they have to counter you, or how to stop them simply escaping you.

 

But vs the good ones? Good luck :D

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If it was up to me there wouldnt be any stealth classes in the game. It's gimmicky and boring to play against. The worst is however to have a bunch of stealthers on your own team. It will leave you in situations where you are the only target the other team can see and for some reason there's this idea among all stealthers that they are the saviors, this despite that 99 % are so bad that they should be eliminated from the gene pool, so every match turns into endless objective trading and running across the map. It's worse than CoD, the pinnacle of bad multiplayer.
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If it was up to me there wouldnt be any stealth classes in the game. It's gimmicky and boring to play against. The worst is however to have a bunch of stealthers on your own team. It will leave you in situations where you are the only target the other team can see and for some reason there's this idea among all stealthers that they are the saviors, this despite that 99 % are so bad that they should be eliminated from the gene pool, so every match turns into endless objective trading and running across the map. It's worse than CoD, the pinnacle of bad multiplayer.

 

Your post history says you're a DPS sorc. You still haven't realized how OP your utilities are against melee dps? I have a sorc alt and I pity you. It's just as mindless as playing AP powertech so it's very easy to figure out. When I feel like playing with a handicap and forcing myself to think more, I play my concealment operative, my long-time main.

 

But do go on, it's great seeing low-tier PvPers complain about underplayed classes when they main a fotm class.

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Your post history says you're a DPS sorc. You still haven't realized how OP your utilities are against melee dps? I have a sorc alt and I pity you. It's just as mindless as playing AP powertech so it's very easy to figure out. When I feel like playing with a handicap and forcing myself to think more, I play my concealment operative, my long-time main.

 

But do go on, it's great seeing low-tier PvPers complain about underplayed classes when they main a fotm class.

At what point in my post did I express any thought on the state of the classes? I just said that I think it's boring to play both with and against stealthers. You could have called it a tad offtopic but that's also the only legitimate complaint you possibly could have.

 

But hey, since you felt the urge to look through my post history I would assume that you also noticed that:

1. I've mained sage/sorc since day one.

2. I've never jumped on fotm trains

3. I've expressed my hate for the concept of stealth in the past

4. My first post in 6 months was roughly a week ago. I have no concept of what's OP or UP atm, on behalf of running around on Rishi and only having played midbie warzones. Wouldnt matter if stealthers averaged 100 dps per game, I'd still find it to be a stupid concept.

 

Additionally, I mainly heal.

Edited by MidichIorian
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If it was up to me there wouldnt be any stealth classes in the game. It's gimmicky and boring to play against. The worst is however to have a bunch of stealthers on your own team. It will leave you in situations where you are the only target the other team can see and for some reason there's this idea among all stealthers that they are the saviors, this despite that 99 % are so bad that they should be eliminated from the gene pool, so every match turns into endless objective trading and running across the map. It's worse than CoD, the pinnacle of bad multiplayer.

 

Speak for yourself. I happen to enjoy playing both with and against stealth. Yeah there are a lot of bad stealthers, but there are a lot of bad sorcs, juggs, maras, pts, snipers, and mercs as well. You are entitled to your opinion of disliking stealth mechanics, but assuming that bads only exist in the stealth classes is pretty dense. It adds complexity and planning to multiplayers games, which makes it more fun IMO.

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Speak for yourself. I happen to enjoy playing both with and against stealth. Yeah there are a lot of bad stealthers, but there are a lot of bad sorcs, juggs, maras, pts, snipers, and mercs as well. You are entitled to your opinion of disliking stealth mechanics, but assuming that bads only exist in the stealth classes is pretty dense. It adds complexity and planning to multiplayers games, which makes it more fun IMO.
The difference between having a bad sorc and a bad ops on your team is that the sorc will stay with the group and act as decoy. It draws attention from yourself. A bad stealther will just repeatedly try to be a hero on the offnode and die over and over again. In the event that you already have two objectives they won't care, they will go for third anyway , make the team spread thin and in most cases give away what should have been an easy win.
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there are a lot more bad sorcs and sins t han ops (dps) because op dps is a lot more delicate class to play effectively, and, like maras, you only see the good and the naive playing the class. every idiot and their sister's cousin's monkey's uncle runs around on a jugg, sorc, sin and PT.
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Honestly the only classes I have trouble with in PvP are Scoundrels/Operatives, and people say those classes suck. Maybe I am just terrible but I can generally wreck most other classes but those two, I just kiss my *** good bye and prepare to respawn.
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Honestly the only classes I have trouble with in PvP are Scoundrels/Operatives, and people say those classes suck. Maybe I am just terrible but I can generally wreck most other classes but those two, I just kiss my *** good bye and prepare to respawn.

 

I have a few reasons as to why you may be having trouble.

 

1. It may be like you said....you probably aren't terrible, but you might lack the experience in knowing how to deal with ops. That's okay...just comes down to practice. Also, if you don't already have an operative I would suggest rolling one as it will help you to understand their strengths and weaknesses. The reason I originally made an op in the beginning of the game is because I was pissed they were destroying my sin. Helped me to learn the class.

 

2. You may be playing a gimped class. Mara's and mercs generally will just not do well against an op unless they are exceptionally skilled.

 

3. You may be playing a class whose design doesn't work well against ops. MM snipers are a great class, but their design does not suit fighting operatives as their burst is predictable and they are heavy white damage classes. Ops defenses are well suited against them. Mercs are the same...predictable burst and only a 4m root. Roots are key to killing operatives.

 

4. You may be trying to just 1v1 them. Like most stealth classes, operatives are very potent in a 1v1 situation, but their potency quickly diminishes in a team setting...that is why they aren't one of the top classes in ranked. They are good middle ground for sure, but not the top.

 

Overall, it comes down to experience. Like someone else stated, many of the people still playing dps operatives are LONG TIME veterans and really know their stuff. Also, their strength comes in 1v1 encounters...which stealth helps them to find. That's why they are good node guards. My best advice is to make an operative and play it a lot (if you haven't already) and you will have a much easier time against them from that experience.

 

Also...to the people that say operatives suck....they don't know what they are talking about. Operatives do not suck by any means, but neither are they overpowered. I believe they are a very balanced class...something that many seem to agree with. They need neither buffs nor nerfs.

Edited by Saikochoro
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The difference between having a bad sorc and a bad ops on your team is that the sorc will stay with the group and act as decoy. It draws attention from yourself. A bad stealther will just repeatedly try to be a hero on the offnode and die over and over again. In the event that you already have two objectives they won't care, they will go for third anyway , make the team spread thin and in most cases give away what should have been an easy win.

 

Not necessarily true. I have seen plenty of idiot sorcs run off and try to be a hero. I have seen TONS of them do that...and it does nothing to help the team. The difference between a sorc with a hero complex and a stealth with a hero complex is that the stealth might actually succeed because their mechanics are better suited to things such as ninja capping a node. Like I said, there are just as many, if not more, idiot sorcs and other classes as their are stealth (cept perhaps sins...there are a lot of bad sins).

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