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Commando Rep 3 Questions Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Commando Rep 3 Questions Discussion

Jherad's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 01:14 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Good advice and I agree with all of the points above, minus the kiss up part of #2 (the "we feel" bs) - that's fluff. Stick to the priority question only.
The 'we feel we're mostly in a good place' bit was an example of how NOT to start a question heheh. I'm editing my post now to make it clearer

My point was that you're crippling the weight of the questions if you focus too much on our improvements. Don't have to be negative (I mean it!) but too much focus on our improvements lends to the idea that we'd happy with nothing.
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Altheran's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 02:07 PM | #12
PvP question, but related to a core skill, not an AC skill :

At the moment stealth scan is a small area that reveals stealthing ennemies. But once the ability has been set, it is really easy to avoid as it displays a red marker on the ground for ennemies, and its area of effect is restrained to this circle (unlike Makeb NPC's scan which can reveal players from further than the area delimited by the three droids without any ground marker). It limits its use to reveal someone once you've spotted their presence, otherwise revealing someone with it will be a matter of luck. If you slightly spotted them but they already disappeared, the range of effect also make so that's impossible to protect yourself under its effect by placing it on you, because they can still affect you from further than the maximal range of the scan, you're forced to try to guess their actual position quite accurately.
So, do you think that how this ability can be used matches your expectations, or are you dissatisfied with it ?

Sorry if it takes a Commando question for something common to all Troopers, but I felt like this is quite the only occasion of when something like that could be answered.

TUXs's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 02:08 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making one of our questions about trying to find the devs' motivations and expectations for the class. Maybe a 'We feel our pvp related issues are X/y/Z. Can you explain in detail what unique role the commando should bring to PvP and your philosophy behind the skills and abilities it brings to the table in achieving that?' type of thing.
The problem with that's a softball question...if I were them I'd simply answer like this:
"Mandos are meant to be a more resilient DPS/Healer than classes like a Sage or a Sentinal - because of their higher durability, DPS/Healing is slightly lower than it's counterparts".

We KNOW what our issues are...we don't need to ask them what the hell they're thinking, it doesn't matter...WE play the class, we KNOW the roles we suck at and WE know the reasons we get bypassed for other classes. WE know our weaknesses and our strengths better than they do...this is our chance to tell them, not ask them. I really believe we need to state what our issues are and ask what they are going to do about them, giving as many comparisons as possible to other healing/DPS classes to make our point obvious...we can't leave wiggle room imo.
(forgive me if that sounds like a rant against you, I absolutely don't intend for it to read that way - I mean it as being insistent that we get our issues acknowledged)
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TUXs's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 02:12 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
The 'we feel we're mostly in a good place' bit was an example of how NOT to start a question heheh. I'm editing my post now to make it clearer

My point was that you're crippling the weight of the questions if you focus too much on our improvements. Don't have to be negative (I mean it!) but too much focus on our improvements lends to the idea that we'd happy with nothing.
Oh nice, the edit is perfect
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ManiacDavis's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 02:23 PM | #15
A lot of great questions so far.
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 02:24 PM | #16
1) PVE Question: Each spec has it's own concerns in PVE which we would like the developers to comment on individually.

Gunnery: With the nerfing of Special munitions (reducing it's overall effectiveness while simultaneously tripling the cost for that full lessened effect) in combination with the change to the 4 piece PVE eliminator's set bonus, ammo management on Gunnery has become very very tight to the point that incredibly high play is required ti milk competitive numbers out of the spec, while any screw up is very harshly punished (since the ammo management tools we do have almost have to be used offensively to keep up good damage). This is such a big issue that use of the old Dread Guard 4 piece set bonus results in the same or better DPS as using the Underworld 4 piece set bonus (possibly kell dragon as well? Someon ask odawgg) despite the huge disparity in aim (72.96 net aim loss between DG and UW when you account for buffs to aim) with its accompanying penalties to critical hit rate and bonus damage. It seems that either a buff to special munitions or a retuning of the current eliminator set bonus to have both the cost reduction and the damage boost to HiB would be the easiest fix. Given this fact

Assault: The spec is borked. Cash or Gyro could better explain. This post is mostly a template, especially when I don't feel fully qualified to comment, but certainly the fact that leaving out the top talent seems to be the optimal configuration, as well as its general inferiority to gunnery which Gyro has already gone into should be mentioned.

Combat Medic: There are issues, people who play combat medic full time could more adequately explain. Frontline medic is a bad talent on its own anyway, and ESPECIALLY because the two points are required for Probe medic. Someone who has an extensive knowledge of using CM in HM or NiM ops would be better equipped to discuss concerns for this spec.

Could the devs comment on these concerns, and their own vision for each spec in a PVE setting?

Remark: To hear some tell it Ammo management is not an Assault Problem, and Assault is so borked at the moment that it deserves its own mention. Additionally some say ammo is no problem in PVE for CM, and others disagree and I don't have enough healing experience to comment either way. I feel The specs should have their own biggest concerns clearly indicated since sans ammo management I can't think of any overriding issue that affects all three specs in PVE, and talking about only one spec is disingenuous since we have healers as well as DPSers, and pretty much all of the DPSers have concerns about both gunnery and assault (even I'd like to mix it up sometimes). Additionally, one could also ask for the addition of an actual offensive cooldown, though that's somewhat addressed by question 3.

2) PVP question: Again I'm not prepared to comment on the current state of Commando in PVP, especially in a ranked setting, in anything like the level it deserves. I will say that I personally believe that a lack of utility seems to continue to be our overriding issue. I would probably copy/paste Jherad's previous post in this thread as far as utility suggestions for each spec since, again, each spec's utility requirements are somewhat different. I would note that I fully suggest the addition of either a baseline slow (independent of spec, and not requiring self rooting on our post) on a reasonable cooldown, or a baseline root that doesn't require melee range to use properly. Also, personally I still feel that 90s is too long a lockout on Electronet, but again that concern may not hold up in practice.

Gunnery: Placeholder for format purposes, copy what Jherad said.

Assault: See above, also still borked.

Combat Medic: See above.

Remark: General utility here seems most important to me so maybe we don't need a spec by spec breakdown, but again I'm just not fully equipped to discuss it.

3) For the free question, to me the most important overriding issue not already previously addressed by any of the above is the plethora of abilities whose benefit is all out of proportion with their usability. To me the biggest culprits are: Tech Override/Power Surge, Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload, Plasma Grenade/Fusion Missile, and Reserve Powercell/Thermal Sensor Override.

Tech Override/Power Surge: I've touched on this already, and Cash practically led the charge on this and RP back when 2.0 was on the PTS, but 1 instant cast every 2 minutes baseline (2 consecutive instant casts every 90 seconds in gunnery) is just awful for a level 46 ability. It does literally nothing to help us do more damage or be more ammo/heat efficient in PVE, and it's the tiniest of bandaids in PVP when trying to cast under pressure. I've almost always used it to get an instant cast concussion round/concussion missile off in either environment. The talent in gunnery/arsenal is nice, but I'd honestly rather have that buff applied to RP/TSO in PVE, whereas two instant CBs/PSs in PVP Assault/Pyro (assuming they fix that tree) would be pretty nice. Either way the cooldown is way way too long for the benefit it provides, and if they insist on only 1 to 2 instant casts then the cooldown needs to be dropped to 60 seconds. If they insist on a 2 minute baseline cooldown the effect should last for 10-12 seconds and I'd like to see it come with a cost reduction for all ammo skills while active. Not make everything free, but maybe a 50% cost to ammo/heat spending skills or increased ammo regen for the duration. Better yet give us an actual offensive cooldown. Give me battle focus/explosive fuel. I will rock faces with it.

Plasma Grenade/Fusion Missile: The only real problems with this skill is its ridiculous cost. It has the cost of a spammable low damage 5 target AoE like Hail of Bolts or Sweeping Blasters, but a 30 second cooldown, and only hits three targets. It really is pretty awesome for single target damage so I don't even mind the low target threshold, especially since its in keeping with other grenade/missile abilities, but the cost needs to be cut in half at least. Actually giving it a cost of 8-10 ammo would help our ammo out quite nicely since I'm sure both DPS specs would be using it on cooldown and something like a good damage ammo neutral ability would help address the above issue nicely. Generally to keep an ability from being OP it either has a decent length cooldown or an absurd cost. PG/FM has both, and that is dumb.

Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload: A 90 second effect which, when you are below 30% health triggers a semi hot on you for 8 seconds which constantly tries to heal you up to, but not exceeding, 30% health, and then triggers a 3 minute cooldown. Are you serious? This is an ability that is literally only used because its there and is psychologically better than nothing. I would be hard pressed to find an ability in this entire game whose effect and usefulness was more out of all proportion with its cooldown. I have no clue why this ability was reworked, but it needs to be reworked again. With a 3 minute cooldown it should trigger immediately and keep healing you for all 8 seconds. Even as good as that would be I would argue the cooldown should be 2 minutes instead of 3, but even so, an adrenaline rush that worked like that would actually have some very nice survivability uses in both PVE and PVP. Note that it wouldn't allow us to cheese big hits that are supposed to one shot us since if we take more damage in one instant than we have HP we die regardless, but its applications for making lives easier on healers are just endless. I understand that VGs/PTs have a talent which makes it better, but that talent could be changed and I think they'd be fine with an overall much better adrenaline rush.

Reserve Powercell/Thermal Sensor Override: Again the effect is nice but we get exactly one free ability every 2 minutes (90 seconds if you're in assault), which is the teeniest tiniest band aid to ammo management ever. Again, if you're only gonna allow it to work on one ability, lower the cooldown to a minute. If you're going to keep the 2 minute cooldown, then give me 10 seconds of absolute free casting. Personally the former option seems more balanced, but either way this and Tech Override feel more like abilities I'd see in a Final Fantasy MMO than like anything else in SWTOR.

I would like to know if any of the above abilities could be reworked to make them more usable and bring them more in line with other cooldowns and abilities in the game.

Remark: Obviously this is a copy/paste of something I've posted before since I didn't feel like reinventing the wheel, but I feel this question is still completely valid. In particular the points about Tech Override and Reserve Powercell. To my knowledge there is not another 2 minute cooldown in the entire game that has such a long cooldown and only affects one ability. Force Potency/Recklessness has a 90 seconds cooldown baseline, affects two abilities baseline, and is a 60% improvement to force critical hit rate, which charges only consumed if the ability used actually criticals or if that ability is Force Lightning. Laze Target/Smugglers luck is a 100% boost in critical hit rate to your next snipe/charged burst and is only on a 60s cooldown. Those are the only two abilities I'm even aware of that act like TO and RP do affecting only one ability, and their usability as well as their actual effect is much much better.

Anyway I'd structure it something like this if I were you Cash.
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07.30.2013 , 02:59 PM | #17
Here are my quick recommendations to fix the commando class. Trust me I can go WAY more in depth than this but this list is what my commando patch notes would look like:


  • KOLTO WAVE (Talent Box)
    add to this talent box, a [5 second per point] reduction to Concussion Charge's Knockback (making it on par with Sage's knockback heal).
  • TRAUMA PROBE (Ability Talent Box)
    Reduce its action cost to apply by half. Reducing it down to 1 cell/8heat
  • PROBE MEDIC (Talent Box)
    This ability box is now unlinked from the "Front Line Medic" talent box.
  • FIRST RESPONDER (Talent Box)
    Increase the alacrity of this box back up to 5% alacrity with full points invested. (the way it was before 2.0)

    Add the knock-back back to this ability that it used to have. Keeping the root effects it currently has.

  • ASSAULT PLASTQUE (Ability Talent Box)
    Change this box back to exactly the way it was before 2.0.
    Add 'Stockstrike' having a 60% chance to reset the cooldown of High-Impact-Bolt, like Vanguard has.
    Increase Alacrity gained by 2% per point spent. (Up from 1% per point spent, on live).
Now, that all said, I would like to also implement another recommendation for the Assault Specialist tree. This is on my "Lulz" Wall of crazy. Feel free to flame it. Though I think it would give assault commando's an interesting group utility for both PVE and PVP.

  • HAMMER SHOTS, While in PLASMA CELL, no longer does standard hammer-shot damage, instead will shoot a Red Beam (exactly like first responder medic's hammer shots) on the enemy target, giving the same chance to apply the plasma cell dot as currently on live, and IN ADDITION: Negates the healing received to the target by 20% and increases the damage that target takes by 10% from all sources, while the target is being hit with Hammer Shots.

/discuss or /flame

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Capt_Beers's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 03:00 PM | #18
CAn our third question be "Can we have more questions?" Or is there a genie/wishes rule type thing going on here?
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TUXs's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 03:08 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
CAn our third question be "Can we have more questions?" Or is there a genie/wishes rule type thing going on here?
I lol'd
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General_Aldo's Avatar

07.30.2013 , 03:41 PM | #20
For Combat Medic, the healing output isn't the problem. Or survivability. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

The real problem is Resource Management.

Commando/Merc current resource rate just isn't reliable for a prolonged fight. (In PvP)

Here is what should be done:

Revert resources back to pre 1.2

I know this is very general, but this is just something to throw out there.


I know commando/Merc should be healing lowest of all 3 healing classes. (Since they are hardest to kill 1v1)
BUT, their healing output shouldn't be so low compared to other healing classes.

- A simple fix to this is improve resource management. Then their HPS will also increase
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