I read the entire thread before deciding to make this post because I wanted to see if anyone else has brought this up. I've seen more than one of these threads now and yes in this thread one person brought up the fact that people seem to be overlooking, which is that story mode operation difficulty will be even easier than it is now when 6.0 launches. From the dev tracker.

“Scaling Tech in Group Content Feedback | 08.02.2019, 03:39 PM

Hey folks,

We are working on deploying a new patch to PTS which will up the difficulty a bit for group content using our scaling tech. Please be sure to swing back on after the patch and let us know what you think of this new balance.

For some context, here are our goals for difficulties for Operations in Onslaught:

Story mode - This should be easy, an entry level difficulty for players. Should be puggable without the need for voice comms.

Veteran - Starting to be a challenge for groups, even coordinated ones. Still possible in experienced pugs but more likely to be completed by coordinated groups/guilds.

Master - Hardest content in the game. Meant for veteran and skilled players with heavy coordination.

-eric”

Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, lockouts will still be available for the higher difficulty levels. given all this information, why is this such an alarming idea? I'm not one to presume other people's motives, however given the above information coupled with reading the rest of the thread it does make one Wonder why there is such an uproar.

except the real reason to just do LB (compared to any other boss in the same OPs) is to get the daily, and the conquest objective, (possibly on multiple toons so to cap them fast).

This may be the case for some people. It's not the case for me. I already mentioned why I feel the way I do.

Also, let me ask you this. What's the difference between a LBLO for KP and running the Eyeless (major source of conquest points), Xeno (ditto), Toborro's Courtyard, etc.?

Not signed.

It's my understanding that the operations are going back to their OG level (KP, EV, EC = level 50), and players are being bolstered down to the appropriate level, similar to how planets work. This way the devs won't have to go through and edit all of the operations with each expansion. Therefore SM operations are going to be even easier. I wonder if we will be able to 4-man some operations? They're going to be like a giant flashpoint

Not signed.

It's about time that the pox on this game called 5.0 is fixed. LB runs are just one symptom of everything that has been wrong with SWTOR in the last few years. We need the game to get back to a point where LB runs aren't actually needed.

BioWare better get the reward system right this time because these LB runs actually get better rewards than NiM Ops. Even dailies in Ossus do that. So now we have a generation of overgeared, whiny SM warriors that still have no clue about boss mechanics and think that you need 258 gear to do stuff that was balanced around 236/242 gear.

The other day my new Trooper was kicked from an SM group because my 230 gear (from the command vendor) was considered "too low rating" for an SM Ops. And no it wasn't Gods. And these types of people I also see wipe over and over on Master and Blaster for example cause they have gear but no sense.

LB runs currently are too profitable to ignore right now, but they really need to be purged from this game.

The other day my new Trooper was kicked from an SM group because my 230 gear (from the command vendor) was considered "too low rating" for an SM Ops. And no it wasn't Gods. And these types of people I also see wipe over and over on Master and Blaster for example cause they have gear but no sense.

Wow. They know SM is bolstered, right? Who are these people so I can put them on my ignore list?

Wow. They know SM is bolstered, right? Who are these people so I can put them on my ignore list?

You'd think they know. I honestly don't remember any names but the funny thing is that I completed the group so we could've gone and start the ops right away. Instead he kicked me saying my gear rating was too low and spent the next 20 mins still advertising in fleet chat before they had that last spot filled again. We'd have been half way the ops by then if he hadn't kicked me. So it beats me really what he was on about.

A lot of people also don't know that when 5.0 came out, SM ops dropped 230 gear and not 236. So that makes it even more bizzare considering that 230 gear is what you were expected to go into HM with. And even though we have gotten 3 levels of superfluous gear ratings (248, 252 and 258), the Ops have not been made any harder to adjust for these new levels of gear.

But the problem is that people now think that you need at least a certain rating for content and they are generally 2-3 rating levels off. I would laugh about it but it actually is bad for the game that this happens. People get their hands held to the point that they are so bad at playing that they need stronger gear to manage even easy content.

I think the removal or lblo is the stupidest thing ever. LBLO is a good way to:

- get new ppl to get an introduction to an op, get a taste of it and maybe next time they will be willing to join a full run

- sometimes you just want to run group content but have limited time, you get a quick fun fix or in smaller guild, a way to get everyone to participate.

- other times you get into a pug group that is really bad and wipes on bosses and you are bound to start from 0 again ( If I start playing again I would avoid pugs though it was fun to help out new ppl before- for the sake of helping out.)

- occasionally, the group has a friend coming late and they boot you...

I think the removal or lblo is the stupidest thing ever. LBLO is a good way to:

- get new ppl to get an introduction to an op, get a taste of it and maybe next time they will be willing to join a full run

- sometimes you just want to run group content but have limited time, you get a quick fun fix or in smaller guild, a way to get everyone to participate.

- other times you get into a pug group that is really bad and wipes on bosses and you are bound to start from 0 again ( If I start playing again I would avoid pugs though it was fun to help out new ppl before- for the sake of helping out.)

- occasionally, the group has a friend coming late and they boot you...

I disagree.

You only introduce new people to the last boss fight of an op without understanding what's going on reallly.

If you have limited time, that's fine because bosses have no locks in SM so you can stop whenever you want and start over and each boss will have their rewards rather than just the last.

Pugs need to learn to be better. They made everything so easy people don't try to get better anymore. That's a bad thing.

All removing the boss lockouts from storymode will do is reduce the number of pug groups that will form for anything but EV/KP. Even for those you might get people more choosy about letting in newer or lower geared players.

 

Who's going to risk running ravagers and having the pug group fail at master/blaster if there are no lockouts? Currently you can just get a new group together and try again. Most OPs besides EV/KP have a potential to crash and burn some way in if enough players are either not good enough at their class, or unable to follow mechanics.

 

Currently with the boss lockouts if your pug group wipes and disbands you can form a new group and try again at the boss where you wiped. With no boss lockouts you'll have to start from the beginning of the OP again. That is a lot of time potentially wasted.

 

For conquest just don't have all the points for the final boss and you'll see more full runs forming.

 

Removing the boss lockouts will result in less full runs for pug OPs forming, not more.

The OP is missing something with this post tho... Their nerfing sm ops so their more like Veteran flashpoints, their gonna be alot easier meaning people are less likely to get stuck on master and blaster

I think the removal or lblo is the stupidest thing ever. LBLO is a good way to:

- get new ppl to get an introduction to an op, get a taste of it and maybe next time they will be willing to join a full run

- sometimes you just want to run group content but have limited time, you get a quick fun fix or in smaller guild, a way to get everyone to participate.

- other times you get into a pug group that is really bad and wipes on bosses and you are bound to start from 0 again ( If I start playing again I would avoid pugs though it was fun to help out new ppl before- for the sake of helping out.)

- occasionally, the group has a friend coming late and they boot you...

lol this post makes me laugh so much how does this give new people an introduction to an op ? they missed 90% of it

The OP is missing something with this post tho... Their nerfing sm ops so their more like Veteran flashpoints, their gonna be alot easier meaning people are less likely to get stuck on master and blaster

Exactly.

Tho LBLOs are no harm and even more, good for conquest, with all changes to come there is no point in LBLO in SM anymore.

LB locks existed long before they gave more than 2k CQ points from one GF ops/day. It has nothing to do with conquest. They became a thing after 5.0 launched because CXP & RNG gear grind was introduced with 5.0. .

This part gave me a good laugh.

Yes reusing Lockouts after a failed group is useful, and I have posted that before. With that being said, LBLO wasn't used like it is now until conquest was originally introduced. And for the record Conquest was introduced in patch 2.9 which came out on 8/19/2014. I remember many last boss lockouts from that point on. It is not something new since 5.0.

LBLO have always been a quick conquest tool.

No no no run the full operation it's easy enough stop being lazy.

Sure get me 7other ppl who are willing to run them all day as I don't mind running full runs, or better words why don't you run 8 ops (any) on one day and come back to me.

Just because it's "easy" doesn't mean everyone has time to run an Op a day/night every night if they'd want to play. Some would like to do some other things in the game but still get conquest points, one chance at loot, etc...

 

No one is stopping you from running full runs on Ops. LBLO does no harm to you either.

Well said. Also, it's mainly for ppl with alts as come on for your main toon you better do full runs to get gear and whatnot.

All removing the boss lockouts from storymode will do is reduce the number of pug groups that will form for anything but EV/KP. Even for those you might get people more choosy about letting in newer or lower geared players.

 

Who's going to risk running ravagers and having the pug group fail at master/blaster if there are no lockouts? Currently you can just get a new group together and try again. Most OPs besides EV/KP have a potential to crash and burn some way in if enough players are either not good enough at their class, or unable to follow mechanics.

 

Currently with the boss lockouts if your pug group wipes and disbands you can form a new group and try again at the boss where you wiped. With no boss lockouts you'll have to start from the beginning of the OP again. That is a lot of time potentially wasted.

 

For conquest just don't have all the points for the final boss and you'll see more full runs forming.

 

Removing the boss lockouts will result in less full runs for pug OPs forming, not more.

Also if you want to do full runs why are you pugging it as just join a guild and do it with your guild. Plus all your points said here is 100% I believe in but I don't have fail runs getting the lockout as I always help newcomers in explaining the fight and getting it done one way or the other.

Yep. And with the level De-syncing they're doing, it's gonna result in a LOT more fails on some Ops. Too many people are used to face rolling mechanics. There is going to be a LOT of rage in chat because of "noobs" wrecking Ops, IMO, after this launches.

Not really as if you played PTS then you will know it's not really hard to do those ops at all now with the de-syncing thing as you will get max gear lvl for that ops if u go in as a lvl 70-75 but if you are a lvl 50 then maybe. Either way, there is no harm learning the mechanics as it meant to be.

Bioware are not going to revert it and that's your fault for being so casual end of the day LBLO were being abused for conquest points and bioware noticed it and fixed it simple it's done now look in the mirror and smile.

Guess you saw your face, good job!

^ 100% this. The only reason LBLO exist isn't due to people not having time. It's because people want fast and easy conquest. It was an abuse of the system that was within the rules to do, but BW is finally fixing it. I have no problems with them getting rid of LBLO, my only concern with no lockouts is if BW introduces a new raid, not every group will finish something bran new the 1st or 2nd time they enter it.

It's only for SM ops they are removing it from the game. for HM and up it's still there. Also if a new raid comes there might be a bit of an issue but then again never had any so better read up on guides.

If that's the reason they done that, then maybe they should have change the conquest grant, so that in order to get the cq points, you'd have to do the full op. That way, CQ points aren't abused, and people still have a chance to do the LO's if they like, and as someone else said, if the group fails, you can still keep the LO and get another group together. I can't imagine getting rid of the LO's are going to effect ops (or groups) positively.

True that.

unless you work for bw, you have no idea if they will revert that or not. If enough people ask them to not do it, they might listen.

 

Best way would be to only grant a small amount of conquest points for it, or have the weekly count boss by boss, so that full runs get the cp.

 

Nothing is my fault for being so casual anyway. Not sure where or why you're coming off with such a snide & snarky attitude.

ikr

I tend to agree with the perspective that removing lockouts will result in making it harder to form groups by limiting the numbers of people doing ops on a daily basis.

That said, the probability of BW backtracking on this decision is nonexistent and we may as well accept it.

As for the casual argument, sorry people paying to play generally have a job and a real life too.

LB locks existed long before they gave more than 2k CQ points from one GF ops/day. It has nothing to do with conquest. They became a thing after 5.0 launched because CXP & RNG gear grind was introduced with 5.0.

 

Today I spend almost 90 minutes on 3 first bosses EC with pugs from fleet before we gave up on minefield. Anyhow, I got a lock and another group later, so my time wasn't completely wasted. By removing lockouts they will efficiently remove all the people who know how to play from GF as well.

Wait, 90mins damn that's way too long also what server you on? Not that it matters but EC can be a pain if allot of ppl don't know what they are doing. Then again it does help if they learn the mechs a bit as well.

Also if you want to do full runs why are you pugging it as just join a guild and do it with your guild. Plus all your points said here is 100% I believe in but I don't have fail runs getting the lockout as I always help newcomers in explaining the fight and getting it done one way or the other.

Most guilds dont do alot of full runs anymore they do LBLO for conquest...

Removing LBLO has its pros and cons, but one really big pro is that it stops big guilds being able to abuse it for conquest points 24/7 and it will give other guilds a better chance at competing with conquest in my opinion