Yes, I know; skank tanks have been neutered in the PvP sense, but are they really so bad for PvE? I find the survivability pretty decent, and I can put out decent DPS numbers, as well. All in all, it's a fun class for me, and yet...I'm queuing MM FPs, and everyone mentions it.

I could understand if I was grouped as a tank, but I'm not; I'm shown as DPS. Maybe I'm out of the loop here from my intermittent playing...but what's so wrong with the setup?

Well, if you are grouped as a DPS, then you're not providing as much DPS as should be available. If you group as a Tank, then you're not tanking as well as you could. Either way, you are doing sub-optimal performance. Now arguably, you may still be a better DPS or Tank as some other 'real' dps or tanks, but people aren't going to be happy about them either.

You should probably reserve 'skank tank' for Guild groups or groups with your buddies.

P.S. In most GF MM FPs, I personally wouldn't mind, if I even noticed. 🤔

Well, if you are grouped as a DPS, then you're not providing as much DPS as should be available. If you group as a Tank, then you're not tanking as well as you could. Either way, you are doing sub-optimal performance. Now arguably, you may still be a better DPS or Tank as some other 'real' dps or tanks, but people aren't going to be happy about them either.

 

You should probably reserve 'skank tank' for Guild groups or groups with your buddies.

 

P.S. In most GF MM FPs, I personally wouldn't mind, if I even noticed. 🤔

See, but I'm not understanding how my DPS would falter if I'm using DPS gear. Going traditional tank? Sure, but the way I always understood it, was I was just taking the taunts and buffs that came with the tank spec, and gearing for DPS. Is that not the way it works? I'm starting to think I know nothing lol

most likely u have ended up with terrible healers, skank tanks are amazing for flashpioints if they know how to use their cooldowns correctly, speeds up the run a lot, votekick the healer and get a healing companion if they are just whining too much

Never the healer that complains, since I'm not the one pulling. Usually, DPS/Tank that calls me out on it. #feelsbadman.

See, but I'm not understanding how my DPS would falter if I'm using DPS gear. Going traditional tank? Sure, but the way I always understood it, was I was just taking the taunts and buffs that came with the tank spec, and gearing for DPS. Is that not the way it works? I'm starting to think I know nothing lol

You're right. That's not the way it works. And, based on what you're saying, it's easy for me to see why your other group members were bringing it up.

Threat in this game is generated by raw damage/healing numbers. Heals generate threat on all enemies in combat, single target damage generates threat on the enemy you target, and AoE damage generates threat on all damaged enemies. If you go into tank spec, you lose many of the buffs and abilities in the DPS trees that increase your damage, but gain buffs to the threat you generate per points of damage dealt. So you become worse at killing things - significantly worse, even if you stick with DPS gear - but better at generating threat.

In PvP content, skanking sometimes has a place (depending on the meta) because the threat mechanic in PvP isn't about directly controlling the actions of enemy players - who can target whomever they like - but rather about debuffing them and reducing their overall damage output. So throwing a ton of taunts around makes sense and is good. In PvE, where the enemies have a strictly defined decisionmaking mechanic and where taunts force target switches and dramatically augment threat generation, having non-tanks throwing around taunts willy-nilly is not helpful. PvE taunts don't lower boss damage output on non-tanks - they just change who the tank is. That makes the tank's job harder: controlling the boss is much harder when you don't know whether you will have control at any given moment or not. And it makes the healer's job harder, because they have to split more of their attention. And it makes the DPS's job harder, because predictability in boss positioning and activity allows them to maximize damage output while not having that predictability can cause problems.

Plus, again, tank abilities don't do as much damage as DPS ones, even on players with the same stats. You may notice gems like "This ability generates a high amount of threat." in your tree. Yeah, that's to make up for the fact that it doesn't do as much raw damage as, well, a damage-dealer's abilities.

If you want to do damage, the damage specs and damage gear for your class are best. If you want to tank, go full tank.

Ironically, real PvE tanks actually do mix in some DPS mods at high levels because of diminishing returns for high tank stats and to keep threat generation high. And some DPS players mix in a few defense mods (not enhancements or armorings) for level-synced content because of the cap on power (although this is largely pointless and done primarily out of a search for optimization for its own sake rather than any significant in-game effect). But in PvE, you generally won't see skanking the way you're doing it.

Never the healer that complains, since I'm not the one pulling. Usually, DPS/Tank that calls me out on it. #feelsbadman.

If you use taunts in the fight, you will have threat, even if you don't start the fight. And, to be blunt, if you're in tank spec with full DPS gear and you don't pull bosses away from the tank, your damage sucks.

Never the healer that complains, since I'm not the one pulling. Usually, DPS/Tank that calls me out on it. #feelsbadman.

wait... are you trying to be a skank tank that plays as dps?

...i can almost accept a skank tank as a tank. as a dps? No. If you're specced tank in a trinity group, pulling and keeping aggro is your primary job, doing damage is secondary.

I agree for FP (and many sm ops) tank spec with dps gear is a perfectly legit setup, and I've done it myself. But claiming to be a dps as a tank spec? Show me how much damage you think you did and ill go show you real dps.

wait... are you trying to be a skank tank that plays as dps?

 

...i can almost accept a skank tank as a tank. as a dps? No. If you're specced tank in a trinity group, pulling and keeping aggro is your primary job, doing damage is secondary.

 

I agree for FP (and many sm ops) tank spec with dps gear is a perfectly legit setup, and I've done it myself. But claiming to be a dps as a tank spec? Show me how much damage you think you did and ill go show you real dps.

Yeah, like KendraP I don't think the OP is correctly using the term skank tank.

A skank tank, as I understand it, is a player who is in the tanking discipline of their advanced class, but has some or all dps item modifications in their gear.

The OP doesn't seem to be describing that. If I am reading the post correctly, it appears as if the OP is designated as a DPS as far as activity finder is concerned, but is in the tanking discipline for its "survivability benefits."

It turns out that a tank, in the tanking discipline, with all the benefits to threat generation, who is also using dps item modifications, can often put out more threat than a tank more traditionally geared.

This means that a player who is supposed to be dealing damage is often stealing aggro away from the actual tank. In many fights, this can cause a lot of issues, including but not limited to the rest of the group being affected by conal attacks, or other changes in the boss positioning that may be suboptimal or even fatal. Players may be subject to AoE damage or knockbacks that they wouldn't otherwise be subject to because you are stealing aggro from the tank.

To boot, because you are in tanking discipline, there will be many passives, and in some cases even active abilities, that you will not have access to. You will be missing out on procs that may make an ability energy-free, or do more damage. In short, you are gimping your actual dps rotation, your energy regen.

So, to summarize:

• I do not think the OP understands what a skank tank actually is.
  
• The OP is likely causing group chaos by accidentally stealing aggro and messing up mechanics, at the very least causing the group to take more damage or deal with more knockbacks than they otherwise would.
  
• Because the OP does not understand what a skank tank actually is, they are doing far less dps than they should be, which is also causing group chaos.

In a nutshell, yes, OP, it is you.

Well, a tank queing as a dps is a step above the dps I got who queued as a tank and was using tank gear.

It's MM fp, at the very least read a your class guide so you have a clue what your rotation should be, your abilities/utitilies, and how to gear. Good dps can make a flashpoint run much smoother, but bad dps (which is what a tank, in any gear, will be) end up making a flashpoint much harder than it should be.

You want surviviblility as a dps in PVE? Learn what your threat drop and defensive abilities are, use target of target so you can see if the boss is targeting you (a lot of bosses are scripted to drop aggro; do not yell at the tank just because you get aggro) so you know when to pop a dcd.

Or run a stealth class, we have the ultimate 'reset your threat to zero' ability.

I personally won't group with skank tanks for any PvE content. If your a tank you should be wearing tanking gear not DPS gear. That is your role.

For me it shows the person doesn't have a proper understanding of his class and role, or is Ignoring it because he wants to DPS but have quick queu times as a tank. Either way it's not worth my time to group with them.

Yes, I know; skank tanks have been neutered in the PvP sense, but are they really so bad for PvE? I find the survivability pretty decent, and I can put out decent DPS numbers, as well. All in all, it's a fun class for me, and yet...I'm queuing MM FPs, and everyone mentions it.

I could understand if I was grouped as a tank, but I'm not; I'm shown as DPS. Maybe I'm out of the loop here from my intermittent playing...but what's so wrong with the setup?

Firstly You are going about it all wrong, if you want to be tank spec in dps gear you should still queue as a tank. Often what I will do is run the DPS intended set bonus but just in tank spec (Meteor for VG, Descent for Guardian, Death Kneel for Shadow) With Full tank stats but DPS amps and Crit augs. This allows me to still shield/defend attacks while also getting more critical hits, and do increased damage. As for tactical I will often run a DPS one of those too.

This "skank" tank set up is totally viable in MM FPs, I even run it in NIM for certain bosses, however I think what people are angry at is the fact that you are queueing as DPS, see tank spec generates a ton of threat so tank specs with DPS gear are extremely hard to hold threat off of which could make the /real/ tanks job a lot harder, not to mention despite being able to do a lot more damage you still wont put up comparable numbers to an actual DPS in a DPS spec. I think if you queue as a Tank and try it, you'll have a lot better results. Plus it might pop quicker for you too! Cheers mate hope this was helpful!

See, but I'm not understanding how my DPS would falter if I'm using DPS gear.

I think this is the main issue. Your spec affects your dps more than dps gear vs tank gear. Do you use Starparse? If you do, you should find that you often do over 10k dps as a dps, if not constantly. Tank... tank can't do that number, except when spamming AoE on mobs, which again a dps can do better and faster (15k and beyond.)

If you don't understand that, I can only fear that your actual dps is much lower. The other dps calling you out is another hint that, no, your damage is not up to par, and (s)he needs to do your part. I very rarely see dps say that.

As a dps, usually I keep quiet if I think the team can handle it. Tanks are less generous, though, since they need to be in control of the fight, and you in tank spec and taunting (you did mention it) is going to make it very difficult.

Please learn to properly dps and practice on a dummy. The dps different is especially pronounced on group of adds, which dummy cannot reflect, but it should be a good start.

1. skank generates too much aggro in pve, not each normal tank can cover without explicit taunts, which annoys.

2. skank does not have proper shielding, so once he got agro, he dies fast.

3. tank build requires to be attacked, if not - no resource/skills/less damage.

this just in, I remember tanking a GF op last expansion with a skank jugg who signed up as dps. The other dps were nothing too special and since his gear rating was 258 and he seemed to know what he was doing I assumed we'd be all right. But no, so here's what happened: things died really slowly and for all the ****** dps he was doing he kept ripping aggro due to the passive high threat that being in tank spec generates. I had to triple taunt every single thing or he melted because he wasn't wearing tank gear. put 2 and 2 together after a failed check at the minefield after seeing his set bonus and 0 accuracy and booted the guy.

0/10 would not tank beside a skank dps again.

Remember, when you group up you owe your group to contribute as much as possible. By running a "build" that does 50% damage but generates 150% threat (approximately) you are screwing your group. Your "build" is pure ignorance. It basically says "carry me because I'm too egoistic to play a proper build".

There's also no reason to build for extra survivability as a dps. In fact I'd prefer the tank to be in mostly or all dps gear while tanking because as a healer I fall asleep when healing a full tank outside of NiM Ops.

If you die as a dps it has nothing to do with you needing more survivability. 90% of the time you are taking avoidable damage and just need to learn to avoid it. And 10% of the time the healer/tank is horrible

MM False Emperor. Immediately the "tank" says he's not really a tank. He only queues as a tank to get the FPs to pop for him.

Me and the other dps give a "hmm" and I look over his gear. Initially, all dps related gear. Eventually, he puts a tank Tactical in and replaces his focus with a shield. I say, "it's up to the healer". Another comment about his gear and he calls us "haters". Bad move, but we move on.

Well, actually it went ok up until Jindo Kray. His lack of mitigation was a super hindrance and the healer was overwhelmed even just focusing on the "tank". After a few attempts I initiated the vote kick.

If he'd had actual tank stuff besides the tactical and shield, maybe different story. But when you need to be a major damage SPONGE, you better have the gear for it. Don't hope that the healer will be able to carry you.