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The problem with Murderous Revelation as a PvP setbonus and why everyone chooses DK

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
The problem with Murderous Revelation as a PvP setbonus and why everyone chooses DK

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
04.18.2020 , 01:43 AM | #1
Hey friends/foes, fellow shadow/assassin players!

Yeah I'm back, at least for now anyway. I can't read the future
And for those of you that havn't heard of me, not to worry

Legend:
MR = Murderous Revelation = Stride reset + 6 seconds of autocrit everything after using Stride in stealth.
DK = Death Knell = Autocrit after consuming Recklessness stacks + 10% DMG after a crit which stacks 3 times

ANYWAYS I wanted to delve into the topic of set bonusses for a bit.
From everything I can tell MR was always meant as "the" PvP setbonus. Both from what it wants to do and from the fact that it has an increased droprate from warzone boxes. While DK has an increased droprate from operation boxes and attempts to target a more sustained environment through a time-depletable buff. My experience with MR is a few days of PvP while my experience from DK comes from hearing and seeing.

What MR asks you to do is basically give up one of your primary Root Breakers and out-of-cooldown Burst generator to generate more-than-usual Burst. Not only that, it also lasts only very short and is dependent on time.
You can very much get scuffed out of the bonus entirely simply by 1, not being able to open right away (this can honestly have many reasons but for the sake of clarity I won't go into it further in the OP.. ask me about this later down the thread) or 2, being stunned/CC'd or otherwise incapacitated during that 6-second window.

What DK does is it gives you a damage bonus after you Crit. When it already provides you with 3 autocrits and then another 3 (soon just 1) autocrits. Not only that, this window in which you autocrit is also EXTREMELY graceful. With Recklessness lasting 20 straight seconds, and the autocrit buff itself lasts 30! seconds. But thats not all.. the 6 setbonus which increases all of your melee (VS/Maul/Assassinate) damage by 30% also lasts 30 seconds. 30 seconds is an absolute eternity in PvP-time. There is almost thinkable no scenario in which you will not be able to use your setbonus effects.

So to summarize;

On the one hand we have MR, a set bonus that costs you a primary mobility ability. One which could also provide some degree of burst, requires the use of it from stealth, and has a very easy to shutdown increased burst window. In the very best case scenario you can gather 4 autocrits out of it. But that is only if you can cast without any sort of disruption.

On the other hand we have DK, a set bonus that isn't tied to any sort of value ability. Where all of its effects last for what might as well be forever. You are guaranteed to get 3 autocrits out of it on top of what recklessness already gives you and there are few times where you will ever lose the 30% increase to melee damage.


Nerfing the autocrit of DK from 3 to 1 is not going to make anyone take MR. Simply because MR costs too much and gives too little in comparison to DK.

So then.. what could you do to change anything? Well you could quite simply provide MR with the same sort of grace window as you give DK. 100% increased crit chance, 4-6 stacks. Consumed on a Crit, with a 30 second duration.
This way it wouldn't be so easy to shut down such an already expensive to use setbonus.

Alternatively you could just overhaul it completely because spending Stride in stealth.. on burst.. doesn't feel that great to be honest. If I'm in stealth, I don't need to use Stride to close any gaps unless I'm in a hurry. And those are the scenarios I'd rather safe it for than some burstwindow.

Either way I'm full of ideas honestly. Discuss
Evolixe | Exilove
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
04.19.2020 , 11:00 PM | #2
Honestly, not much to discuss here. Murderous Revelation is garbage set. Using stride from stealth is dumb. Why should I waste a gap closer in order to get 6 secs auto critic, when DK does that and way much more? And in PvE it is even worse, since you want to use stride after you used reckless and discharge, you lose 15 sec of discharge CD, and 30% melee damage for 30 secs after recklessness.

It needs a full redesign. It does not remotely work.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
04.20.2020 , 02:44 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
Honestly, not much to discuss here. Murderous Revelation is garbage set. Using stride from stealth is dumb. Why should I waste a gap closer in order to get 6 secs auto critic, when DK does that and way much more? And in PvE it is even worse, since you want to use stride after you used reckless and discharge, you lose 15 sec of discharge CD, and 30% melee damage for 30 secs after recklessness.

It needs a full redesign. It does not remotely work.
It needs change, therefore I think there is plenty to discuss

Either that entails a rework or not I think is an excellent talkingpoint.
For example, Eralus Sunfell on the swtor theorycrafting discord suggested that we could take the stealth requirement out of the equation. That would for sure increase its usefullness.. but probably, by my best guess.. a little too much

That would quite simply instantly turn it into the best set for both PvE and PvP and leave Death Knell eating dust
Evolixe | Exilove
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
04.20.2020 , 04:45 PM | #4
I think removing the stealth requirement can give murderous revelation some usage. I do not think dec would consider it over DK anywhere, but hatred could, especially if it impacts the dots already on the target. It could become hatred defecato set, since hatred going out of combat does not reduce recklessness CD. Could also be good for tank for additional damage and threat generation (not that these are issues).

Just for dec break down with, recklessness it is guaranteed 4 GCDs of critic which is equal to 6 sec MR in uptime, and would be usable twice in roughly 125 secs. Within same time frame you could MR 5 times within the same time frame. Then assuming 7% alacrity, you should have around 60 secs uptime of 30% extra melee damage with DK, every 95 secs. I do not see it being better for dec in PvE, but should not be far off. PvP, the 30% melee damage is far more important. And you want to use stride as a gap closer.

Hatred has serious survivability issues. But that is a problem for another thread.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
04.20.2020 , 10:46 PM | #5
You do realise that 30% only applies to Maul, Assassinate and Voltaic Slash.. right?

What MR does really well is double dipping with recklessness. Tons upon tons of Spike/Discharge and Ball damage.

In fact, I don't think the dk 6set is a big deal in PvP at all.
Evolixe | Exilove
Darth Malgus
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
04.23.2020 , 12:10 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
You do realise that 30% only applies to Maul, Assassinate and Voltaic Slash.. right?

What MR does really well is double dipping with recklessness. Tons upon tons of Spike/Discharge and Ball damage.

In fact, I don't think the dk 6set is a big deal in PvP at all.
I did not consider recklessness from MR. It could outdps DK in PvE. I know that the 30% impacts melee only, but that close to 45% of your damage distribution. Also, DK reduces recharge by 15 secs.

I do not PvP often anymore. However, maul is far more prevalent in PvP. I would guess it is between 25%-30% of overall damage. Probably 50-60% with assassinate, VS and RS. Having 30% damage for these skills is pretty strong. Of course having 4 guaranteed GCDs of critic with MR would be way stronger.

I think if MR is reduced to 4.5 secs, we could safely make it proc without requiring stealth. At 6 secs, it probably would be too strong, when you combine 6 secs + recklessness.

And saber master still exists... for some reason.