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May PvP Report

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MikeBradley's Avatar


MikeBradley
06.07.2019 , 02:00 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  

Hey All,

If you missed the live stream last week talking about the itemization changes planned for 6.0, here is a link to it on Twitch for those who enjoy the chat log (and here it is on YouTube for those that don't), check it out for lots of information regarding upcoming changes in September. If you’d like to give feedback on anything PvP related that was (or wasn’t) talked about in the stream, Musco has spun up a thread to gather that feedback.

Win Trader Report

In May, we caught and punished 18 accounts for win trading or cheating in PvP. We have:

  • Suspended the accounts for one week
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their ranked PvP Reward Tokens

Something I have seen a fair number of questions about is how appeals are handled, by whom, and why so many reversals happen, which leads me to…


Punishments, Reversals, and Who Decides?

I realize that there is a perception on these forums that we reverse many of the punishments that we administer, so let me provide some detail on exactly what is happening. Here is a breakdown of all the accounts we’ve punished for win trading in season 11 and all of the punishments we have reversed. For transparency, if there are any other reversals this season, I will include an updated number in future monthly reports.

So far in season 11, we have actioned a total of 96 accounts for win trading related offenses. Of those punishments, we have reversed only 5. All 5 of these accounts were reversed because they were all caught in the same reporting error. In this case, these accounts had been caught once, punished, and then (incorrectly) punished again for the same original offense. We reversed only the second punishment, and by every indication that we have, these accounts have since been playing by the rules. Meaning that we actually still hit 96 accounts, those 5 were just incorrectly hit twice.

I’ve seen a fair bit of misinformation around who actually handles appeals so let me provide clarity on that process as well. Every appeal that we receive is reviewed by our Live Production team (Keith Kanneg, Eric Musco, and myself), and checked against the data we have gathered. After investigation, if we feel that we’ve made a mistake, only we can reverse the punishment. This decision is made entirely by SWTOR Live Production, and no rating restorations or reversals take place without our express direction.

That being said, let me take this time to remind everyone that although live production does have final say in reversal of any actions taken, contacting members of the live team directly is not appropriate. If action is taken against your account it is important that you follow the process outlined in your suspension.


New way to Report Win trading / Cheating in PvP

Per the previous report, we’ve created a new shared email specifically to make it easier to report win trading or cheating in PvP. The email address is pvpReports@swtor.com , and there will be a sticky post explaining the purpose of this email living at the top of this forum. This new email will go to all of SWTOR Live Production and we’re hoping that it opens up a better path for reporting PvP cheating or win trading, especially for those who wish to include image or video evidence. In game reporting will still work as it always has, and we are still looking at possible improvements we could make there, this is simply an additional way to report.

As always, I look forward to reading your thoughts, questions, comments, and concerns throughout these forums, and will do my best to address them in these regular reports. Thank you for your patience and for continuing to help me understand what is most important to you.

Until next time…

Mike Bradley | Associate Producer
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omeru's Avatar


omeru
06.07.2019 , 03:39 PM | #2
Only 18 accounts and 1 week suspension? Come on 18 players is nothing compared to what is going on currently and 1 week ban is not an actual punishment.

I am sure all those 18 accounts are the ones who are throwing not getting advantage of wintrading. Like you did on botter bannig his bots and dont touch cheaters main avounts rating. Sorry but with that fiasco i dont trust your we banned x amount of accounts and resetted all their ratings.

ColorfulCaiques's Avatar


ColorfulCaiques
06.07.2019 , 04:52 PM | #3
Par for the course. There is no deterrent. A friend of mine told me they made a few toons on Star Forge and said team ranked is nothing but full of wintrading. You guys have only issued a handful of perma bans. Solos aren't fairing any better; getting friends on alts or alt accounts to throw for you on the opposing team and EU is full of literal bots from he who shall not be named.

Also, why haven't you guys opened up a dialogue on some of these wintraders seemingly having control on customer support? He who shall not be named has admitted to being employed by one of your EU locations, likely the one in Ireland where your ToS team is based. He has insiders that are aiding and abetting his and his friends' illegal behavior.

Ugh I give up
Don't flatter yourself, EA/BW. I'm just here by the grace of a referral.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
06.07.2019 , 11:11 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeBradley View Post

Every appeal that we receive is reviewed by our Live Production team (Keith Kanneg, Eric Musco, and myself)
Well the question is whether you think you really get all the appeals. I mean, I am sure you guys are not the first ones to get these, there must be some staff gathering and forwarding them to you. What the people were concerned about is whether you really get all the appeals and whether “someone” isnt able to resolve it without you knowing about it.

Dont get me wrong, I am sure you stand fully behind your staff, but there have been these indications....
Merovejec
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JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.10.2019 , 06:58 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeBradley View Post
  • Suspended the accounts for one week
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their ranked PvP Reward Tokens
These punishments are far too lenient. The suspensions should be much longer, if not permanent. And all of the wintraders' past pvp rewards (flairs, titles, flags, etc) should be removed as well. You are not deterring wintrading at all with these weak punishments. Nothing stops these players from coming back into the game and immediately wintrading again. It seriously makes me wonder whether I should bother wasting the time to report wintraders at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeBradley View Post
We reversed only the second punishment, and by every indication that we have, these accounts have since been playing by the rules.
One of those accounts that you reversed has wintraded his way to a top 3 spot this season. He's just sneakier about his wintrading now. He came crying on the forums, and he probably came crying to you and Eric, yet he continued to wintrade as soon as his suspension was lifted. Not only that, he kept his top 3 title that he got via wintrading. This kind of stuff is just indefensible.

fabsus's Avatar


fabsus
06.11.2019 , 01:55 AM | #6
i think the punishment is a bit mild, don't you?

at least the valor rank should be reset to 1, too. also the entry rank for ranked pvp should be raised,
that the time, until they can trade again, is extended.

personally i would wipe out the complete account, with every achievement, every reputation,
all items, all credits, all titles... just keep the cm-items and the level.

but we shouldn't underestimate the effect of the leaderboards. if you sort it by rank, everybody could identify the cheaters and wintraders. so let us spread that, to make them even more unpopular.


but what are they doing now (and since some weeks)?

actually they are waiting, until other pvp groups are going offline, so that they can q for ranked, without playing against real opponents. then they are looking, which pve guilds are online and try to talk them into playing some rounds ranked, just for "fun"; with a helpfull and friendly mask.
they also are spreading out, to talk to some directly and do the same, also offering to practice in some custom games. just don't fall for it, because the intention is a different one.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.11.2019 , 02:03 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
These punishments are far too lenient. The suspensions should be much longer, if not permanent. And all of the wintraders' past pvp rewards (flairs, titles, flags, etc) should be removed as well. You are not deterring wintrading at all with these weak punishments. Nothing stops these players from coming back into the game and immediately wintrading again. It seriously makes me wonder whether I should bother wasting the time to report wintraders at all.
100% agree with this.

There is no real deterrent to cheating in this game. All of these punishments are a slap on the wrist at best.

If you won’t perma ban them, then the minimum ban should be more than 1 week. I would suggest 3 months and be unable to participate in ranked for the rest of the season.

Severith's Avatar


Severith
06.11.2019 , 02:25 AM | #8
So, even if you're caught win trading, you keep all the gear and crystals you "earned", and after a week you can go back to win trading again.

If you're not going to ban them, how about giving those folks some permanent flair, on all their characters on the account, which can't be removed. Something like pastels of pink and brown. That way people know to keep an eye on their behavior in the future.

This current "no accountability" "punishment" system is a example of the systemic failure of why ranked isn't considered fun by the vast majority of pvpers. Hence why it died.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
06.11.2019 , 04:36 AM | #9
Mike B, thanks for your transparency! You may not deliver a message people want to hear (including me sometimes) but you lay everything out on the table for all to see and for that I think you deserve more credit than any other rep BW has working for them right now that interacts with the playerbase.

I am just curious when the conversation is going to turn to gutting this scoring system as well as the very lenient policy of cheating. If for reasons BW cannot explain to us the punishments are to be so lenient, and the scoring system continues to be such an easily manipulated one, eventually BW has to throw in the towel and come up with some other format for ranked.

I mean I have seen BW gut and tear apart perfectly working gaming systems from gearing systems to conquest systems that were universally accepted and viewed as successful systems in their own right with just slight flaws that needed adjusted or tweaked. These systems were totally tore out of the game, with zero reflection as to how the players were to feel about such changes.

Here there's undoubtedly one of the most flawed scoring systems in any PVP games I have ever seen. Not only that, this monstrosity been given years of time to spread it's filthy turd covered wings over the entire contest of ranked dripping fecal matter on all who participate. For years!

enough is enough, some serious dialogue ought to be about the damn scoring system that simply is incapable of deterring cheaters. I get it that BW can't monitor and watch ranked 24/7, then you need to do something to the structure of the contest and stop with the window dressing that simply isn't effective at improving ranked. That's the point here, changes have got to be fruitful and actually create change.

As long as ranked is easy to cheat and as long as it is viewed that cheaters get far too leniency and far too slight of punishments, all that is going to happen is the only active players will be subsiders that just funnel the rewards to the same old cheaters that buy those oh-so-needed ranked pixels.

Right now, the contest cheaters get to feel warm and special inside rolling around on their virtual reality pixelated treasures while honest players trying to enjoy stiff competition against the best of the best in ranked have to wade through impossible amounts of shenanigans which adds tons of frustration.




TL;DR

These punishments are like putting lip stick on a pig and the result of these punishments isn't improving the ranked scene. It's time to really consider more serious options to improve both solo and group ranked PVP.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
06.11.2019 , 05:38 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
So, even if you're caught win trading, you keep all the gear and crystals you "earned", and after a week you can go back to win trading again.

If you're not going to ban them, how about giving those folks some permanent flair, on all their characters on the account, which can't be removed. Something like pastels of pink and brown. That way people know to keep an eye on their behavior in the future.

This current "no accountability" "punishment" system is a example of the systemic failure of why ranked isn't considered fun by the vast majority of pvpers. Hence why it died.
I guess they are judging the state of the account. If its a new fresh account they might give him a chance to be good again. If its a long time account they should be familiar with the banning policy. At least thats how I understand it.
Merovejec
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