Considering the megathread in General is basically a flame fest, I decided to make a post in this thread SOLELY for the suggestion of ways bioware could make things better for the Manaan SH. Bioware said they're going to listen to us and that they want feedback, and I'm going to take their word for it. I figure if it's in one place, with limited hatespew, there's a decent chance they take some ideas, maybe implement some of our suggestions in 5.4 or later, and make manaan better.

 

Keep hate and non-constructive criticism off here. Also lets frame the discussion of the problems in ways they could correct them. Also, don't discuss future stronghold possibilities here- only about ways that the current Manaan SH could be improved.

 

If you agree with ideas and want to show support, just quote and /sign in a post.

 

Here are my suggestions:

 

1. Create Ceiling Hooks in the Underwater North and South Rooms

It would really improve the stronghold if we could control the lighting in these two rooms. Right now, things are forced to be dim because a wall small light cannot brighten up the room. I get that the point of the underwater lighting was to create a KOTOR-esque Hrakert Rift research station vibe, but the space for a large ceiling hook is there in each room. Please modify what is current a wall small into a ceiling large hook so if a player desires he may lighten the hook. This should be an easy swap to improve the sh.

 

2. Place a Submarine Taxi instead of a Brown Panel for Entry/Exit

Instead of a brown panel, why don't you place a submarine taxi off the edge of the stronghold. It's not a major improvement, but it'd fit way better aesthetically and is an easy way to make people happier. Also, we know the implementation of this is already in game, since Nar Shaddaa has it in the form of a taxi. And the submarines are rendered out the west window. Plus, it'd bring something to the waters edge of the stronghold past the centerpiece hook, which right now is very empty. This shouldn't be a huge change, just reskin the taxi from Shaddaa with the skin of the submarines in the stronghold, and place it in the water off of the entrance platform. This is also an improvement that doesn't take that much work.

 

3. Do Not Reduce the Hook Count- Expand the Courtyard

I know the hook count is tight, but it'd be problematic to reduce it now. The best option is to expand access in the main area by making an archway through the wall below the starship hook so that people can access the area to the east with the submarines. The pictures of the glitch show that that area is fully tangible and created, and not just some animation designed for the windows on the upper level. Make a bunch of hooks across this, even put one or two on the water (ex. so someone could put their Kakkran Dragster out there ). In turn, charge an extra million credits for the stronghold unlock. This one is tougher to implement, I know, but if people think its tight on hooks, this is probably the best remedy. Unlike an underwater room, which would have to be constructed, this room is already there, just a wall is blocking it. I know this is harder than the other two, but I think it would be worth it to alleviate the burden of a high hook count.

My suggestions:

 

Underwater observatory:

 

Make the windows larger or make it mainly glass down there. Add more acquatic life outside and in more colorful tones. Add more fish and yes even sharks swimming around. Have different size sharks. I love the large one but make the smaller ones swim around and the large one have it appear a little more often.

 

Add a walkway between the area where you can walk through the outside and have that mainly made of large glass so you can see the aquatic life.

 

For the hooks outside add some decorations like sunken ships or even aquatic plants (sea plants without pots) so you can place that there and even some fish/sea animals you can place but they move around.

 

Hooks:

Make the centerpiece hooks able to break down better in order to make an office/etc. Spread the hooks out more and add more areas (like mentioned below)

 

Rooftop Garden:

Give us the ability to go behind the plants out there and even decorate there. Don't block us from walking behind those plants.

 

Give us a door inside the first room in the roof garden to lead outside to where the submarines are parked and let us add stuff there. Also give us a way to reach the starship hook.

Edited July 13, 2017 by casirabit

The small aquaria are too small for the size of fish (the fish don't even swim about). I think that's unkind to the sea life in a way manaanians would never do.

The SH should be a rest area like all the other SHs.

 

The entry cut scene should not have a "press spacebar to start" thing to stop it from playing if you are afk. It shouldn't play every time you enter the SH.

 

Rework hooks (count and placement). Hook count should be in line with the size of the rooms/SH (i.e. way fewer).

The entry cut scene should not have a "press spacebar to start" thing to stop it from playing if you are afk. It shouldn't play every time you enter the SH.

 

This was the same when Yavin was released, just like back then I suggest to always play the cutscene when you use the terminal to enter, and skip it when you use the UI. This way we would have the option to see our mains wandering the fully decorated stronghold, and still be able to quickly visit them.

 

Rework hooks (count and placement). Hook count should be in line with the size of the rooms/SH (i.e. way fewer).

IMO they should link conquest bonuses to unlocked rooms instead of hooks, and then allow us to use as many hooks as we like. Nar Shaddaa's hook count is much too low for my purpose (casino/club with many NPCs and tons of lights) I would pay cc for 100-200 more hooks, at the same time I never got over 65% on Tatooine, don't care about conquest enough to clutter up my SH.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Mubrak

...

IMO they should link conquest bonuses to unlocked rooms instead of hooks, and then allow us to use as many hooks as we like, Nar Shaddaa's hook count is much too low for my purpose (casino/club with many NPCs and tons of lights) I would pay cc for 100-200 more hooks, at the same time I never got over 65% on Tatooine, don't care about conquest enough to clutter up my SH.

 

No, they should link conquest bonus to the number of the same cheap deco you have in the SH like chairs or junker lights... if you have all 10 of each trophy, etc.

Let me start by saying that I actually love the look of the place. It's gorgeous. I feel like I've landed in some ocean resort every time I go there. I love all the water features that it came with, and the fountain in the pack.

 

I agree with those who say the centerpieces need to break down better, and those underwater rooms need light hooks. They're way too dark. So NOT reduce the amount of hooks, please. Just adjust the options we get for the layouts. Speaking for myself. The room that needs the biggest hook change is the inside room upstairs. That centerpiece breakdown in the middle, and all the hooks along the outside of the room are incredibly limiting.

 

The Manaan seating arrangement, I can't remember the exact name, it's too small to be a centerpiece hook. When you put it in a centerpiece it looks teeny and ridiculous. There's really no way to use it without making things look half empty.

 

I'd love to be able to actually get to my ship hook. With now it's just this barely noticeable spot. My Phantom is pretty, I want to actually see and admire it. I'd like more access to the place in general. Looking at it from the outside it looks huge, but we can only access a small portion of it.

 

Also, the suggestions about the fish and sea life are spot on. I love the added touch of seeing the fish swimming around, but they need more color and there need to be more of them.

 

Lastly, most of the hooks aren't placed properly. They're off centered and crooked. Hooks that should be symmetrical are not. I can adjust the decos, but if the hooks were lined up right it would be a lot less time consuming and frustrating.

 

Again, I do love the place, but those are the things I think could be improved.

I've visited 2 different fully unlocked and decorated Manaan sh's, and I've yet to purchase it. I probably wont due to the huge let down it is (and the price! ouch!). It's like the opposite of the Tardis. Bigger on the outside and tiny on the inside.

 

When you first land, it looks extravagant, and there are two building like structures either side the main causeway leading up to the main front entrance. You can't get into them as there are no doors or passages. Not even the hooks on top of them, (though I saw a friend had managed to put a large deco on one of them, just can't figure out how as my camera wouldn't cooperate to see it) as you cant even see them from ground level. You can look out the windows and see areas you can't even get to and explore let alone decorate.

 

Rooftop level and Underwater levels are huge letdowns. When you think rooftop you think wide open area where you can see a lot of the sky and look out over the ocean. All you get is a closed in room and a kind of U shaped roofed outdoor room with a shrub barrier you can't get passed though the area beyond shows up fully on the map. Underwater level was the biggest let down. It's small with only 2 curved rooms with 2 doors each. The windows are seriously tiny. You pretty much have to get onto the sil just to see out decently enough. The floor of the main room could be mostly glass for viewing but still have hooks for deco, etc. There needs to be more glass and less walls. We can put lights on the ceiling or standing lights on the floor, or the wall between doors.

 

For the amount of credits to fully unlock Manaan stronghold...You could buy Yavin 4 fully unlocked and it still have more space than the Manaan sh. It looks almost palatial and we should have full access to what's there on the map, like every stronghold to date.

Edited July 13, 2017 by LadyArdor

yavin stronghold is 5 million more credits. not sure why everyone says they are the same price. and the manaan SH at 8 mil is very cheap.

yavin stronghold is 5 million more credits. not sure why everyone says they are the same price. and the manaan SH at 8 mil is very cheap.

 

Value is relative.

 

8 mil for Manaan is way more than it is worth.

 

Since yavin is many times bigger/better than Manaan, it is a better deal (at less than twice the price for 5 times the SH).

Value is relative.

 

8 mil for Manaan is way more than it is worth.

 

Since yavin is many times bigger/better than Manaan, it is a better deal (at less than twice the price for 5 times the SH).

 

That depends on your view. I can remember when Yavin was released and the forum was filled with complaints (much like now) that (1) it was too expensive (2) to big (3) too many hooks, etc. This seems always happen when a stronghold is released.

- Allow us to convert pairs of the many (many, many) small green hooks into medium narrow.

- Improve the other hook options for centerpiece-sized hooks. Right now it's hard to fill up the upper courtyard appropriately if you don't use the centerpiece hook, and it's quite tricky to arrange the lower floor into a sensible room.

- More flooring hooks, especially in the upper courtyard room, but also in the main landing area.

- There are a lot of little nooks and cranies, e.g. behind pillars, that could benefit from having a medium or two medium narrow hook layouts.

- There need to be more ceiling lights in the lower floor.

 

I would strongly prefer that they not reduce the number of hooks, just improve the quality of the hook layouts.

 

For my ~reach~ wishes, I'd love:

- larger windows on the lower floor

- the glass adjusted to be easier to see out of (including the new fishy decos)

- More rooms added, specifically off the main floor's hallway. Little rooms for offices or kitchens or libraries or something.

 

I'll edit this if I think of more.

* Many of the hooks are off-center or unevenly spaced. Their placement is far sloppier than any other stronghold. Move the crooked and off-center hooks to the proper position.

 

* Most of the hooks are Small Floor that can't up-convert to Medium Narrow. Group sets of two Floor Small hooks so that they'll convert, such as in the ground floor hallway and fountain entry walk.

 

* Most of the small hooks are in overhead rows (few decos can go here) or in two rows out front, rather than spaced evenly around the stronghold. Remove half the Small Floor hooks from the entry walk and overhead arch, scatter them around the underwater area, clustering some to work as Medium Narrow.

 

* You can't see all of the single Starship hook. This means that you can't see the bottom of a huge decoration placed on it, and worse, you can't convert it to any of the other 3 hook arrangements and actually click the hooks to use them. Convert the round landing pad to a Starship instead of a Centerpiece.

 

* There is no way to get to the Starship hook. Give us the ability to click it through the garden room windows.

 

* The garden room window is frosted. Make it clear so that we can enjoy the view.

 

* There are only four interior rooms and three of them are very cramped. Make the underwater rooms bigger. Alternately, add side doors that lead to new and larger rooms with flat walls. (You can see from the water windows that there is actually structure on both sides, so it makes sense.)

 

* The maximum number of visitors is lower. Increase to the same as other strongholds.

 

* There are extremely few Ceiling hooks and not enough Floor covering hooks. Double the number of Floor hooks and cluster some so that we can make a large, rugged (or dance floor) area using several adjacent decos.

 

* They placed a deco over the water hatch so you can't put your emergency escape sub over it, which is the only logical place to put a submarine. Remove the Generator Ceiling Light and replace it with a ceiling hook.

 

* There are big areas of the underwater landscape that are bare. It either needs to have some texture and terrain, or hooks so that we can add our own. Add some Large hooks in the bare areas.

 

* If you're going to have a big, boring ocean in every direction, you need to have a fascinating sky. Something. Anything that doesn't make the view in every direction completely dull. Make an occasional ship fly by, add something like a shark or dolphin that occasionally jumps out of the water nearby, etc.

 

* The intro tour video plays on every video. Make it play on the first visit like other strongholds. Add a "Tour" button on the Strongholds Management Window for people who want to watch it again.

*

* There are big areas of the underwater landscape that are bare. It either needs to have some texture and terrain, or hooks so that we can add our own. Add some Large hooks in the bare areas.

 

You may already have noticed by now, but there are at least seven underwater centerpiece hooks clickable through the windows.

Rename the underwater observatory to "Underwater Observatory A"Add 2-3 other rooms to the elevator and call them Underwster Observatory B,C and (possibly) D. That would go a long way to dealing with it. You could even keep the same backgrounds and the like from the windows and floor bubble. Change the colors of the fish,coral etc if they really want to spiff it up. Edited July 13, 2017 by Ravenschild

I thought of another one:

 

The windows need to be clear on the upper level. The tealish color does nothing to the stronghold. It isn't as much of a benefit to the stronghold as was probably intended. It doesn't match the exterior all that well, and it really doesn't help viewing out the interior. Recolor the windows to a transparent normal color, like the glass windows in all of the other strongholds.

 

Also, please examine each of the hooks you placed and check their symmetry. Some of them are off, notably the green rows in the courtyard do not match up perfectly, the left circular platforms large hook is notably off, and one row of the hooks in the fountains is a little off.

Edited July 14, 2017 by MissilyMilcasia

I think the Manaan Sh has the worst layout of the bunch sofar, so I think we need to put a different sh there and change the colors/details of the walls to manaan's style and put new backgrounds in the windows. The Coruscant/DK stronghold layout could be converted easily to suit Manaan. enter the Sh at what is currently the balcony and have the lower floors be underwater viewing areas. Similarly the Nar Shadda Sh could be altered easily to fit Manaan by simply changing the general style of the walls and removing the big outdoor patio area which would become an underwater garden like area, the large window in the main area of the Nar Sh would give an amazing underwater view.

 

I think that these layouts and changes are far better than the mess we got in this last update, and would be far easier to implement than a complete rework. The current Sh is mostly chunks of the FP with all the decorations removed anyway, so why not just reuse a design that works and change the walls/floor/ceiling design. They could even fix some of the issues with hooks in the Nar Sh while they are at it.

1. Remove the ceiling lamp above the water hatch in the underwater observatory and replace it with a large ceiling hook, so we can put the emergency submarine there.

 

2. The elevator sign from the last CP pack is designed to use a medium wall hook, but there are no medium wall hooks near any of the elevator doors. Please put some medium hooks near the elevator doors or make the elevator sign using a small wall hook.

 

3. Please add two large rooms left and right of the hallway after the entrance door. 650 hooks for such a small SH is too much.

 

4. Enlarge the underwater rooms and the observatory room.

 

5. As many others stated: Please rework the hooks. There are too many centerpieces indoor. Replace them with a combination of large and medium hooks or allow to break them down to some more suitable hooks.

 

6. Expand the accessible part of the rooftop garden so we can use the whole visible upper part.

 

7. Make the starship hook accessible from the rooftop garden and add a second (and even a third) starship hook.

 

8. I don't want to flame, but the whole Manaan SH gives the impression that it has been shoved out too early and not ready. 650 hooks gives the impression that the SH should be much bigger, the max of 30 visitors that there are not all planned rooms implemented yet, and the poor placed hooks that the devs wanted to save working hours badly. All in all, it seems really half-assed shoved out.

You may already have noticed by now, but there are at least seven underwater centerpiece hooks clickable through the windows.

They cover less than 50% of the outdoor terrain. If the terrain was interesting, or there was a set of hooks out each window, it wouldn't matter.

 

Remember the article Bioware wrote, years ago, about how they had to work hard to keep the Tatooine landscape interesting? They worried that having vast expanses of nearly featureless sand would be boring. They were right. Unfortunately, the underwater and ocean surface areas of Manaan wasn't given the same consideration. Underwater, there are huge bare patches. The areas that do have rocks and other little things of interest are very a bit monochrome and dark, so you really have to look hard to spot them. Above water, it's endless identical shimmer. Some cresting waves, passing submarines, leaping fish, or anything would break it up a bit.

 

The underwater observation rooms are a fantastic idea. They just need some follow-through. More color and contrast in the rocks and other features to make them visible and match the color of placed decos, perhaps a couple more Centerpiece hooks. In spaces without hooks, we need some nature textures.

Like this: https://ak5.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/17977216/thumb/10.jpg

 

The ocean vista could be a panoramic beauty, it just needs some slow, rolling waves or something to give it texture and interesting features.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Xina_LA

They cover less than 50% of the outdoor terrain. If the terrain was interesting, or there was a set of hooks out each window, it wouldn't matter.

 

Remember the article Bioware wrote, years ago, about how they had to work hard to keep the Tatooine landscape interesting? They worried that having vast expanses of nearly featureless sand would be boring. They were right. Unfortunately, the underwater and ocean surface areas of Manaan wasn't given the same consideration. Underwater, there are huge bare patches. The areas that do have rocks and other little things of interest are very monochrome and dark, so you really have to look hard to spot them. Above water, it's endless identical shimmer. Some cresting waves, passing submarines, leaping fish, or anything would break it up a bit.

 

The underwater observation rooms are a fantastic idea. They just need some follow-through. More color and contrast in the rocks and other features to make them visible, perhaps a couple more Centerpiece hooks. They could add occasional shimmers of sunlight coming from above. In spaces without hooks, we need some wavy lines in the dirt or other nature textures.

Like this: https://ak5.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/17977216/thumb/10.jpg

 

The ocean vista could be a panoramic beauty, it just needs some slow, rolling waves or something to give it texture and interesting features.

 

This. Yes there are hooks but the view needs to be better. More colors, more fish, even more sharks or other dangerous predators would be good. The areas without hooks needs to be done better. Make the room made of glass or at least larger windows.

Edited July 14, 2017 by casirabit

I was extremely disappointed to find we couldn't access the two huge wings on either side of the entrance. I really hope those will be opened up in the *near* future.

 

I'd also like to echo the requests for the ability to combine some of the small floor hooks into medium narrows, and for more floor hooks so that we can connect tiles or rugs to create a consistent walkway rather than one that keeps changing from decorative flooring to concrete/standard flooring. I agree that more starship hooks are needed, as are larger windows in the underwater rooms.

 

I would also like to see the hedge gone from the rooftop garden and be able to use the full rooftop.

 

If there's a problem with expanding into the two wings because there are too many hooks already, I, at least, would happily sacrifice some of the courtyard ones in exchange.

I was extremely disappointed to find we couldn't access the two huge wings on either side of the entrance. I really hope those will be opened up in the *near* future.

 

I'd also like to echo the requests for the ability to combine some of the small floor hooks into medium narrows, and for more floor hooks so that we can connect tiles or rugs to create a consistent walkway rather than one that keeps changing from decorative flooring to concrete/standard flooring. I agree that more starship hooks are needed, as are larger windows in the underwater rooms.

 

I would also like to see the hedge gone from the rooftop garden and be able to use the full rooftop.

 

If there's a problem with expanding into the two wings because there are too many hooks already, I, at least, would happily sacrifice some of the courtyard ones in exchange.

 

I agree with this In addition to this, I would love it if they released an extension(s) for these said problems, especially the area where the subs are that you can see from the building windows. If that area was able to be decorated I would be sold. However, I still have faith in Keith and the rest of the team to expand on this in future patches, but so far I'm pleased. also let us get the to ship or at the very least add another starship hook

Some more suggestions:

1) There are a LOT of small green hooks on the floor that cannot be changed into the blue thin medium ones. Please give us that option.

2) There is a green hue in the central hallway, the doors and the lower levels. It's impossible to create nice colour effects with lights because of it. Please change the green hue to a blueish hue like on the top level room.

3) There are too few ceiling hooks for lighting. The underwater side rooms don't have them (just a little green WALL hook). Please add more ceiling hooks.

4) The walls inside have too few options. Too many are are small green hooks. We can't do much with that. We need more bigger wall hooks.

5) The main top room needs large purple hooks in the corners of the room.

6) We need many more hooks for carpets. The existing ones are either too randomly placed or too few and far between to make useful.

7) Open entrace area on the sides there are some nice looking waterfall things but nothing can be placed in front of them like people or benches.

8) Please put more large hooks in the open areas in a way that you can also put things in with more symmetry. It's really too random.

9) Yes please open the side rooms and the rooftop in front of the balcony.

10) Please do something about the cartel certificate decorations vendor on the fleet so we can get more of those decorations. There is a huge shortage in proper green plants and they are either available there or hardly available at extortionist prices on the GTN.

11) Please do something about decorations in general. Because of your cartel pack policies we cannot get decorations in enough numbers to create properly themed SHs. I thought the Manaan pack was cool but then we get ONE standing lamp. I am not going to buy 12-24 of those packs at 1500 CC each to get enough lamps. So stop extorting us with cartel packs as the main source of decorations. I also won't spend 150 bucks each time a cartel pack comes out and still not have enough copies of each of the decorations I need.

 

Just stop killing the fun. I really enjoy decorating but not if I have to buy myself poor just to have enough decorations to test out a theme. Often enough themes might not work out but you won't give the money back then either. Manaan is a prime example. It lends itself beautifully to a peaceful resort type of place, but even though I have a lot of decorations, I just can't get enough together of the right types. I invite you to come and visit mine and I'll calmly give you a tour and I'll show you the viewpoint of a decorator.

The Manaan stronghold is the worst one in the game so far. it really shows how lazy BioWare has become.

Here is what I would like to see for additional Floor Covering hooks --

 

* Front entrance between the fountains: Additional rug hooks on the front walkway to make a continuous link of rugs, or at least be able to center rugs along the fountains.

 

* Front entrance against the building walls: Rug hooks centered beneath the Large Floor hooks. We need the ability to put rugs beneath our outdoor seating areas and civic decorations.

 

* Underwater observation rooms: Rug hooks in the center of the Centerpiece hook. Due to the curvature of the room, it's very awkward to place rugs near the doors, covered by the current side rug hooks. Larger rugs don't fit there at all. A centered rug would work much better.

 

* Upstairs room: A square of four rug hooks in the lowered area. I would like to put four dance floors there, close enough to touch and look like one giant dance floor. Alternately, I might cover the floor and put four office desks.

 

* Upstairs garden/exterior room: Rug hooks centered beneath the Large Floor hooks and Centerpiece hooks. We'd like to put rugs under our civic statues and seating areas.

 

That would give me good Floor Covering hook options and make me a very happy decorator.

 

 

Here is what I would like to see for additional underwater hooks --

 

* A Centerpiece hook outside every window, which has layout options. When using the Large+Medium arrangement, it's a bonus if some of the Medium Floor hooks are partially in the ground or a nearby rock. This allows me to place Environmental and Utility plants, hiding their pots in the dirt. Until some potless plants are released, that's our only option.

 

* Medium Narrow hooks scattered around that convert to two Small hooks. This will allow us to place underwater vehicles and pets (I want lylek crabs out my windows, pelase!)