The Starguard would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

Burst Laser Cannon

Light Laser Cannon

Rocket Pods

The Pike would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

Interdiction Missile

Rocket Pods

Retro Thrusters

Power Dive

I don't think either ship needs all of these. But these ships are sort of advertised as being good at these things, and they are missing a lot of the really powerful tricks.

Alternatively, Strikes could just have some base stuff buffed about them. I mean, maybe they could just deal more damage. Not as much as a Scout during CDs, but more than one outside of it.

Alternatively, Strikes could just have some base stuff buffed about them. I mean, maybe they could just deal more damage. Not as much as a Scout during CDs, but more than one outside of it.

Could be done through the magazine component maybe ? I mean most players would agree that the magazine is one of the most underwhelming components in the game. Maybe the Starguard could get a magazine that increases primary weapon damage (like a second capacitor) and the Pike one that increases missile damage ? (might as well put that one on the comet breaker too ?)

The Starguard would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

 

Burst Laser Cannon

Light Laser Cannon

Rocket Pods

 

 

The Pike would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

 

Interdiction Missile

Rocket Pods

Retro Thrusters

Power Dive

 

 

I don't think either ship needs all of these. But these ships are sort of advertised as being good at these things, and they are missing a lot of the really powerful tricks.

 

 

 

Alternatively, Strikes could just have some base stuff buffed about them. I mean, maybe they could just deal more damage. Not as much as a Scout during CDs, but more than one outside of it.

Burst lasers or Light lasers would be pretty awesome on the Star gaurd, though I wish there was something else it could do... something else seems to be missing, I dont particularly care for the idea of Rocket pods personally.

For the Pike on the other hand I think they could add ALL of those things to it except the rocket pods and it would make the Pike much better.

Still dont think any of this would even come close to making Strikes such as these competitive by comparison really, but who knows that depends on the plans they have for the "nerf scouts"

 

The Pike would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

 

Interdiction Missile

Rocket Pods

Retro Thrusters

Power Dive

 

 

Well, it depends. I fly Pike / Quell as rangers. Melee I've had enough. So I do not need short-range missiles or pods. Thermite torpedoes, however, I'd like that would be really useful.

Power DIE I do not want a gift, retro I like to take, although I would stay with Barell Roll.

My 2 cents:

The Starguard would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

 

Burst Laser Cannon

Light Laser Cannon

Rocket Pods

Burst Laser Cannon - would switch the type 1 SF from slightly underpowered to overpowered

Light Laser Cannon - Yes

Rocket Pods - Should remain Scout only (they, in my opinion, just don't "fit" to a SF)

The Pike would be MASSIVELY improved with any of:

 

Interdiction Missile

Rocket Pods

Retro Thrusters

Power Dive

Interdiction Missile - Yes

Rocket Pods - Should remain Scout only (they, in my opinion, just don't "fit" to a SF)

Retro Thrusters - Would make type 1 SF obsolete

Power Dive - Impartial, no argument against but I also don't see it as a significant enough change

I'd definitely see another cannon added to the Starguard. For a cannon specialist, which packs two at once I think that the available choices are too limited (and too redundant as well).

I'm not sure if I'd like BLC on this ship, but LLC (or simply LC), yes definitely.

As for the Pike, I don't see any particular need for this ship. I am plenty satisfied with it in its current state.

Starguards could use a better close range cannon option, though my recent experiment in insanity where I start with Ions and then swap to heavies has been working out surprisingly well (mind you I only do this when I wind up close to a healthy target before deciding to attack them, given the choice I start and finish with heavies and a missile).

LLC is really the natural choice if you're going to do that.

The Pike is really fine as is in terms of component selection. Retro would be fun with some of the shorter ranged missiles, but it's really not needed.

If you feel that strikes aren't deadly enough, which is a slightly different concern than component selection, then I don't think you'd accomplish much with any of the suggested component additions.

There are a couple of challenges a strike faces in terms of damage output.

One is ability to stay on an agile target, which would be remedied by adding more speed and/or turn rate to the strikes' total maneuverability budget.

The other is the ability to create burst damage on demand. This is done chiefly with heavy missiles on a strike, and the lock-on mechanic is more reliably countered with a lower degree of skill than blaster+cooldown or railgun based burst. Missile reload times, lock times, and missile break CDs are where you'd address that.

While I'm not fond of the idea of the level of snares and disables that are creeping into GSF it's possible that the devs think that strikes will be buffed by an environment full of very slow or even stationary targets.

The best upgrade for strikes though, is seat cushions. Spend enough time in cockpit to wear through about five of them and the strikes become very dangerous. I think that the other ship classes have hardware crutches that you can lean on for some degree of offensive success as you learn to fly them: railguns, stacking burst damage, mines. The strikes don't have that. For them it's a matter of practice to improve pilot skill, and it doesn't have an impressive effect until you have a lot of it. They also seem to get more performance gains out of teamwork than the other ship classes do in my experience.

Me want Burst + Heavies.... Armor Pen everywhere

Ion + BLC looks fun too :p

Interdiction and thermite need to be on the pike too

I know there was one discussion thread about retros on a Pike before, and it was pointed out (and pretty well agreed upon) that retros could make those a little too good, since they have two missile lock options. People were envisioning being able to fire both missiles in a close range pass, etc.

I rather agree and would take that off the table. The other options probably would be okay, though I don't really see rocket pods as being worth it on a strike. Scouts are the one with the maneuverability to make those work some of the time.

I'd maybe worry a little about interdiction on the pike again, since an opening shot with that would really open up your target to whatever missile you wanted to use after that. Even though EMP can take out the engine maneuver and system ability, the target can still dodge whatever you want to send next if they're a decent pilot.

Starguard really deserves at least Light Laser Cannons. They'd pair really nicely with either Heavies or Ions, and would do the job that rapids don't really do at the moment.

BLCs... I dunno, it's kind of crazy that Strikes didn't get these and scouts and gunships did, to be honest. I guess spreading them around would help out with parity on those and allow the devs just to focus on how powerful the scout offense systems are. But I don't know that it's strictly needed.

Retros on pike is a good idea for the build, but for the gameplay it may be too much... Just locked on a cluster, switched to concs, got half the lock anddddd retro thrust to complete it. Not liking that (only because we don't need that on a strike that's already lethal). I guess I just feel that if we added things like pods to strikes, what's a scout gonna do?

Press 1 and 4 and left and right click and watch things explode obviously just like scouts have always done.

Poor strikes, people scared that something like this would some how make them OP and even if they added in this stuff the sad fact is they would still under preform its in the fundimentals of all the ships right now. Combination of Survival and burst damage of all 3 other ship types just makes the Strike utterlly obsolete.

I have given up the idea that Strikes will ever be part of the Meta.

P.S I dont think they will ever add Pods to a strikes arsenal they seem pretty set on making that scout exclusive, I am talking about the laughable idea that Retro's would make PIkes OP..... just that sentence made me laugh a litle inside .

Clarion/Imperium + Interdiction Missile = OP?

I actually didn't suggest this. While the Clarion is not exactly earthshaking, it does have a role.

As for the Pike, I don't see any particular need for this ship. I am plenty satisfied with it in its current state.

The Pike needs help. Honestly, all the Strikes do.

Burst Laser Cannon - would switch the type 1 SF from slightly underpowered to overpowered

Based on WHAT? The flashfire has this, two gunships have it. The flashfire is much more maneuverable.

Now you might say that the flashfire is a bit OP- but guess what, he's got way more going for him than just BLCs, and is plenty viable without them. The T1 Strike badly needs a close range weapon, and RFL is not cutting it.

I think it's odd that people think power dive or retro or BLC will make the ship OP or whatever. Why do you think that? The strike frame is generally inferior to the scout frame, and without distortion this definitely isn't going anywhere.

Strikes are not ok.

Based on WHAT?

Based on personal experience. With no offense meant, how often do you play the Type I Strike Fighter?

Now you might say that the flashfire is a bit OP- but guess what, he's got way more going for him than just BLCs, and is plenty viable without them.

You answered here yourself. Flashfire is "plenty viable" without BLC, and "a bit OP" with it. Type 1 Strike Fighter is plenty viable without BLC - what would it become with it?

The T1 Strike badly needs a close range weapon, and RFL is not cutting it.

I agree here, that's why I voted yes for the Light Laser Cannon.

I think it's odd that people think power dive or retro or BLC will make the ship OP or whatever. Why do you think that?

I'm actually not sure how much is this aimed at me, so I'll answer from my standpoint. I said I'm impartial to Power Dive - with or without it, the difference is quite insignificant. And I said the Retro Thrusters on Type 2 would make the Type 1 obsolete, not the Type 2 overpowered.

Based on personal experience. With no offense meant, how often do you play the Type I Strike Fighter?

 

 

You answered here yourself. Flashfire is "plenty viable" without BLC, and "a bit OP" with it. Type 1 Strike Fighter is plenty viable without BLC - what would it become with it?

 

 

I agree here, that's why I voted yes for the Light Laser Cannon.

 

 

I'm actually not sure how much is this aimed at me, so I'll answer from my standpoint. I said I'm impartial to Power Dive - with or without it, the difference is quite insignificant. And I said the Retro Thrusters on Type 2 would make the Type 1 obsolete, not the Type 2 overpowered.

T1 strike currently isnt "plenty Viable" not on the same level that the scout is with out Burst lasers. Quad 'n' pods any one. Your statement is now invalid.

T1 wouldnt be obsolete cus it still has a reactor and the T2 doesnt and can with this suggestion would still have burst lasers and the T2 doesnt..... ta da not useless lol.

The Pike needs help. Honestly, all the Strikes do.

Maybe. But in my opinion, that's not the kind of help they need...

I'm not opposed, it's just that in my opinion they'd just be "another choice" without solving any glaring need :

• Power Dive - Why not. But not feeling the urge for shorter break.
  
• Retro Thrusters - Why not. If you want to give up hit'n'run tactics of Barrel Roll, or change from Koiogran's way of jousting, fine.
  
• New secondary weapons - Why not. But Pike is already impressive thanks to the number of choices it has.
  Not fond either of the idea that the Pike may copy the loadout of some exotic builds created by other ship class (reverse thinking works too), especially when it's Gunships' since one would be universally superior (the Pike thanks to superior speed, armor, shields...).
  Well, maybe I'm opposed a little on this one.

Long story short, it's more a matter of "Wouldn't it make too much choices ?" or "Should we allow it to do that ?" than anything else.

In the end, since I'm not seeing a need that would be solved by these, I'd tend to be cautious and left the ship as it.

I would explore other solutions.

Press 1 and 4 and left and right click and watch things explode obviously just like scouts have always done.

The devs said they're taking a look at TT / BO during the stream, and giving something unique to a different class seems to reduce the uniqueness of the ships. I wasn't talking about viability here - I was talking about originality.

Poor strikes, people scared that something like this would some how make them OP and even if they added in this stuff the sad fact is they would still under preform its in the fundimentals of all the ships right now. Combination of Survival and burst damage of all 3 other ship types just makes the Strike utterlly obsolete.

Scared? I don't think scared it the right term.... Strikes need love, but only in the sense that more specialized roles perform their tasks better (makes sense). Making them less unique doesn't make them better per se.

I am talking about the laughable idea that Retro's would make PIkes OP..... just that sentence made me laugh a litle inside .

Itkovian flies Pikes. Pylan flies pikes. Both of them can top the leaderboard without retros. I'm saying that this idea seems more like "lets give more abilities to more ships" instead of having specific craft have the abilities that they were designed with and tweak the components already assigned to the ship. Retros, like I said, make perfect sense with this build, but in a dogfight against a missile launcher who can add another 2-3 seconds to make that second lock on would change the way the class plays (encroaching on the T1 strike's turf as a dogfighter). I enjoy using my (non-mastered) pike to BR into a situation, engage an enemy with a cluster, and come around for another pass to conc him/her. I guess I don't understand since there are good players who fly these ships. There just aren't a lot of players who choose the ship and play it well, but they exist. In non-elite matches, any ship has the potential to be taking the lead spot on the scoreboard. In elite matches, the tactics that assist in winning to do more for matches than individual performance.

I think that while strikes can be used very effectively, the other 3 roles of GS and Scout and Bomber are better able to provide a deterrent. They're all fun to play, but scout has insta kill, GS has safety from afar, and bombers can hold a node really well. The other classes excel in different areas whereas the strike is meant to be good at all areas but not great. Strikes are still hell'a fun to play, albeit their killing potential seems light relative to the others (except they have their own pros as well like protons or double missiles, etc.)

P.S I dont think they will ever add Pods to a strikes arsenal they seem pretty set on making that scout exclusive, I am talking about the laughable idea that Retro's would make PIkes OP..... just that sentence made me laugh a litle inside .

Okay. Plenty of Type 2 Strike pilots have said that retros with those would make them quite a bit stronger (not necessarily OP). Not sure how you're not seeing the ability to fire off two missiles in a close range engagement as being a weak thing. It'd be a large offensive buff for the type 2's, and they're not in a terrible spot right now.

Scouts do have over strong offensive abilities right now, but the tendency of posters in this thread to think Strikes are extremely weak is what I find baffling.

I actually didn't suggest this. While the Clarion is not exactly earthshaking, it does have a role.

No, I'm suggesting it: the Clarion currently lacks a truly decent missile option. Giving them Interdiction Missiles would suit their buffer/debuffer/support role perfectly, IMO. But to be objective, might also make them potentially too good. Discuss in 1500 words or less.

Okay. Plenty of Type 2 Strike pilots have said that retros with those would make them quite a bit stronger (not necessarily OP). Not sure how you're not seeing the ability to fire off two missiles in a close range engagement as being a weak thing. It'd be a large offensive buff for the type 2's, and they're not in a terrible spot right now.

 

Scouts do have over strong offensive abilities right now, but the tendency of posters in this thread to think Strikes are extremely weak is what I find baffling.

chuckled at the "they're not in a terrible spot right now"

Ok just because a few exceptional pilots can make it work doesnt mean they are in a good spot. I have yet to see a pilot have only that ship on their bar like we see with the GS and the Flashfire. Yes the Flash fire is getting nerfed, but it will always have more burst then the Strike.

Dont worry with the way things go the balance is never really going to change. Strikes will never have a role in GSF that another ship cant preform much better.

They wont even have the ability for "multi-role" as currently the new bomber and gunship do it better.

Currently for me roles are Close in knife fighter (largely dominated by Scouts), Long range sniper (GS), Area Denial (Bomber) and Mid Range Support (strike) all 3 of the other roles often have around 3-7 second kill times with out assistance. The Strike on the other hand depends much more on the target. If its not a noob pilot, IE ship actually matters and not just blowing people up who dont know what a Missile break is, then either A your never landing anything but clusters (scouts do it better and will always do it better so no point using a strike besides gimping yourself) or you will never land a missile before killing them with lasers or they are a bomber and can eat the missile and mostly be ok. The issue is Strike TTK is to high by comparison to the other ships because mid lock on and long lock on missiles are unreliable at best.

For those of you that dont know me. I have over 800 game played in a Pike, it is the only ship of which I have every single component mastered in it. Have used every combination of missiles you can think of even EMP and Ion (not recommended) I am comfortable in saying I do not believe there is a component combination I have not used on it with a degree of success.

But its not because the ship is ok, its because the enemy pilots werent as good at times. And when they are good any scout can shut it down, any Gunship can kills faster and highly reduces efficiency of the strike and any bomber can hold any location better. There is no point when the Strike of any type can hope to win in an equally skilled arena. Just look at the pilots considered Aces on your servers. You might find 1 or 2 exceptionals those exclusive strike pilots, but every single other one is an Ace in either a GS or a Scout or a Bomber. That right there tells just how much more effort the strike pilot has to put in.

Just look at the pilots considered Aces on your servers. You might find 1 or 2 exceptionals those exclusive strike pilots, but every single other one is an Ace in either a GS or a Scout or a Bomber. That right there tells just how much more effort the strike pilot has to put in.

Are the Strikes bad, or the others too good ? That is the question (and the right answer is not always the most glaring/satisfying)

Are the Strikes bad, or the others too good ? That is the question (and the right answer is not always the most glaring/satisfying)

That's part of the issue, the T1 scout is almost as good as the T2. The T3 scout has a unique role but could use some love (ironically relies on same type of missiles as the strike surprise surprise) The T2 GS could use some help (Second verse same as the first) and other then that that's it the rest of the ships have a role and can do that role. ALL of the other ships basically.

11 ships that are "to good" vs 4 ships that "arent good enough" easier to buff 4 then it is to nerf 11. Simple arithmatic awnsers the question. Strikes arent good enough. Though T2 scouts are to good.

I see no real problem on the Strikes on their own, they are almost perfectly balanced the problem is that they are not faced with balanced ships *cough*T2 scout*cough*.

Light Lasers instead of RFL, seriously this is a no brainner RFL makes sense on a ship like a scout that can keep a solid bead on a ship at close range even after investing everything into trying to get the turning rate of a scout a Striker can never make good use of RFL...

Remove the shield penalty from Quick Charge Shieds, this would solve the mobility issues on the Strikes. Right now we can trade 50% shield strengh to have decent boosting but with most kills happening in face to face *jousts* Directional Shield is too far superior to Quick Charge.

That's part of the issue, the T1 scout is almost as good as the T2. The T3 scout has a unique role but could use some love (ironically relies on same type of missiles as the strike surprise surprise) The T2 GS could use some help (Second verse same as the first) and other then that that's it the rest of the ships have a role and can do that role. ALL of the other ships basically.

 

11 ships that are "to good" vs 4 ships that "arent good enough" easier to buff 4 then it is to nerf 11. Simple arithmatic awnsers the question. Strikes arent good enough. Though T2 scouts are to good.

Actually remove the Missile break on Distortion Field and suddenly all missile ships not using Clusters are gonna have a huge boost in competitiveness.