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TLJ: My personal take


AshurDarksoul's Avatar


AshurDarksoul
08.05.2018 , 08:46 AM | #61
Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....


-Ashur

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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.05.2018 , 11:37 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by AshurDarksoul View Post
Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....


-Ashur
Pretty much.
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DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
08.05.2018 , 12:16 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Except here's the fun fact. Outside of questioning RJ's decisions, what did I say badly about him? Oh wait nothing. Till he started lumping me in with the vile ones because I didn't like his "masterpiece".

I didn't attack him personally till he just lumped me in with all the vile people and then started calling me vile things.

Just because I don't likenthe movie and have numerous issues with it doesn't mean I am an old white male man baby misogynist racist etc.
When and where did that happen? Because it seems like some people are conflating "he calls out the misogynists, the racists, and the man-babies who are among those complaining about his movie" (which he has done) with "he calls everyone who complains about his movie a misogynist, a racist, and/or a man-baby" (which he has not done).

Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I mean the movie literally screams the following:
I hate men, regardless of color
I hate capitalism
Women can do no wrong
Kill the past off so we can make money off new things, but we still hate capitalism.
  • Luke saved the Resistance, showing up when it counted and going out as nothing short of a bona fide hero.
  • Since when did a negative portrayal of fat-cats and war profiteers become a controversial plot point? You'd see that in standard '90s Saturday morning cartoons, it's not some radical partisan position. And on top of that, the last word the movie gives on on this "social commentary" is DJ punching up the holo of the X-Wing, showing Finn "oh hey, those guys you're hating on? Your side is buying from them, too, and they're the only reason you good guys have weapons to fight back with" -- the narrative never refutes that, letting DJ's "things aren't necessarily so black-and-white" point stand.
  • Rey utterly failed in her self-appointed mission to redeem Ben -- that was the whole reason she left Luke and went off on her own, Luke warned her not to do it, and sure enough she wasn't up to it.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
08.05.2018 , 12:25 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by AshurDarksoul View Post
Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....


-Ashur
So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.05.2018 , 02:37 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?
Except the fact TLJ made 700 million dollars less and it was also WELL short of Lucas Film projections.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
08.05.2018 , 02:45 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
When and where did that happen? Because it seems like some people are conflating "he calls out the misogynists, the racists, and the man-babies who are among those complaining about his movie" (which he has done) with "he calls everyone who complains about his movie a misogynist, a racist, and/or a man-baby" (which he has not done).

  • Luke saved the Resistance, showing up when it counted and going out as nothing short of a bona fide hero.
  • Since when did a negative portrayal of fat-cats and war profiteers become a controversial plot point? You'd see that in standard '90s Saturday morning cartoons, it's not some radical partisan position. And on top of that, the last word the movie gives on on this "social commentary" is DJ punching up the holo of the X-Wing, showing Finn "oh hey, those guys you're hating on? Your side is buying from them, too, and they're the only reason you good guys have weapons to fight back with" -- the narrative never refutes that, letting DJ's "things aren't necessarily so black-and-white" point stand.
  • Rey utterly failed in her self-appointed mission to redeem Ben -- that was the whole reason she left Luke and went off on her own, Luke warned her not to do it, and sure enough she wasn't up to it.
I'm not digging through all his posts...oh wait he deleted most of them so I couldn't prove it even if I wanted to.

1. Luke had to literally be kicked in the posterior by Rey do right to do so. Hell Mark Hamil said it best in his early interviews when he said "I fundamentally disagree with everything you've done with my character". The Luke we actually know from 4-6 wouldn't of needed to be literally punked into doing so. Why it's Jake Skywalker, not Luke.
2. Sure it's something to talk about, when it's actually relevant to the main plot and not wasting screen time to shove a political message out. Same with slavery. What in the name of hell does that planet need with slaves when on a per capita basis droids are far cheaper?
3. Yes she failed to do so and suffered zero consequences and hell nothing changed. So her going to Snoke's flagship was again a WASTE OF TIME.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
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Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
08.05.2018 , 05:12 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I'm not digging through all his posts...oh wait he deleted most of them so I couldn't prove it even if I wanted to.

1. Luke had to literally be kicked in the posterior by Rey do right to do so. Hell Mark Hamil said it best in his early interviews when he said "I fundamentally disagree with everything you've done with my character". The Luke we actually know from 4-6 wouldn't of needed to be literally punked into doing so. Why it's Jake Skywalker, not Luke.
2. Sure it's something to talk about, when it's actually relevant to the main plot and not wasting screen time to shove a political message out. Same with slavery. What in the name of hell does that planet need with slaves when on a per capita basis droids are far cheaper?
3. Yes she failed to do so and suffered zero consequences and hell nothing changed. So her going to Snoke's flagship was again a WASTE OF TIME.

to point number 3:
Honestly I didn't mind that as much as the whole Rose/finn plot. Rose needed one scene, Stop Finn from taking the escape pod. After that all the rest between them should have been cut from the movie, it was all just a waste of useless content.
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AshurDarksoul's Avatar


AshurDarksoul
08.05.2018 , 07:29 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?

Rationalize it how you wish. A backlash usually follows a trigger. The trigger in this case is TLJ, the backlash hurt Solo, which from what I hear is an ok movie.

Again, their is enough evidence to show that there has been "enough" pushback, for whatever reasons people are pushing back, to make Disney take pause and look at the directions the franchise is moving. I wouldn't be surprised if Ep 9 gets a kick in the jewels as well if the same hacked-off fans don't think things will change directions. Just my prediction....

Ashur

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AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
08.06.2018 , 06:47 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Except here's the fun fact. Outside of questioning RJ's decisions, what did I say badly about him? Oh wait nothing. Till he started lumping me in with the vile ones because I didn't like his "masterpiece".

I didn't attack him personally till he just lumped me in with all the vile people and then started calling me vile things.

Just because I don't likenthe movie and have numerous issues with it doesn't mean I am an old white male man baby misogynist racist etc.

When I am personally a half white, half black 35 year old male who detested how the Hispanic male was emasculated at every turn, the black guy was turned into a walking joke then cycled, the old white guy was turned into a coward and grumpy old man.

But women, can do zero wrong, unless Phasma and god what a joke she was. I feel so bad for Gwendolyn Christie. To go from being the bad*** Breanne of Tarth to a joke who collectively across 2 movies got 3 and a half minutes of movie time in a lame attempt to sell toys.

I mean the movie literally screams the following:
I hate men, regardless of color
I hate capitalism
Women can do no wrong
Kill the past off so we can make money off new things, but we still hate capitalism.

But riddle me this everyone. If this was not a star wars movie, would you give 2 craps about it?

If the answer is yes, good on ya. If it's no, then you might want to dig beneath the Star Wars name and actually look at the structure of the movie and find out how bad it is.
I disagree with your assessment of the treatment of men in the film. Every one of those three them had an important lesson to learn and every one of them ended up stronger in the end. Poe learned how to be a better leader and understand the sacrifices that must be made. Finn learned to think of others and to stop running away from his problems. Luke learned how to shoulder the burden of being the legend that the galaxy was in need of. That's what the middle movie of a trilogy is for.

And think about the women: they did wonderful things, but they all also had their failings. Holdo lost most of the Resistance. Leia caused Poe to lose trust in leadership (Holdo, too, but Leia broke the trust initially when she berated and demoted him). Rey grew with the Force, but now she doesn't have direction since Luke is gone. And it makes sense that Rey makes fewer mistakes... she's the hero, just like Luke was in the OT.

And, no, the movie wouldn't hold up as well on its own. That's the thing about being a part of a larger story, to truly appreciate it, you need to see how the whole story comes together. Think about it, ESB is the best movie of the saga, but it wouldn't make any sense all on its own.

Oh, and I doubt RJ attacked you personally. If you see yourself in his words, then that says more about how you see yourself than how anyone else sees you.
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AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
08.06.2018 , 06:49 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
to point number 3:
Honestly I didn't mind that as much as the whole Rose/finn plot. Rose needed one scene, Stop Finn from taking the escape pod. After that all the rest between them should have been cut from the movie, it was all just a waste of useless content.
I think it was just a poor execution of important character development for Finn.
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