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PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.06.2019 , 11:34 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
The reflexive school-yard insult is nice, but it doesn't change the fact that group ranked is irrelevant. No one good plays it. All that was left in season 10 was mediocre teams farming mat farmers, and now even that is gone. It's just dead. You clearly have a hard time accepting the truth.
Solo ranked is not a serious game mode. It is a lottery of 8 pugs thrown together, and skill is not as important as when you queue in terms of gaining rating. Terrible players are mixed in with good players and the result is a disgusting quagmire of cancer. If thatís what you consider to be the height of competitive game play, I donít know what to tell you.

Group ranked is dead because no one wants to queue and get stomped by the top teams, not because itís irrelevant. Thatís what itís been in my experience, because very few people ever ask my team to queue against them unless itís challenges and they canít lose rating. If youíd like to play truly competitive matches, just dm me on the forums or something and we can set up a time to do fours against each other. If youíd rather just do solos and pretend that youíre a good player, I guess I can understand. But donít tell me no one good plays group ranked if you donít play that game mode.

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
06.06.2019 , 11:50 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Solo ranked is not a serious game mode. It is a lottery of 8 pugs thrown together, and skill is not as important as when you queue in terms of gaining rating. Terrible players are mixed in with good players and the result is a disgusting quagmire of cancer. If thatís what you consider to be the height of competitive game play, I donít know what to tell you.

Group ranked is dead because no one wants to queue and get stomped by the top teams, not because itís irrelevant. Thatís what itís been in my experience, because very few people ever ask my team to queue against them unless itís challenges and they canít lose rating. If youíd like to play truly competitive matches, just dm me on the forums or something and we can set up a time to do fours against each other. If youíd rather just do solos and pretend that youíre a good player, I guess I can understand. But donít tell me no one good plays group ranked if you donít play that game mode.
The more players on a team, the higher the chance one of them will be a weak link in a pure death match mode.

Honestly, solo ranked without flaws would be a better metric for judging skill of a player. Although 2s (in another game i played) were pretty decent in terms of teamwork + skill.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
06.06.2019 , 01:10 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Solo ranked is not a serious game mode. It is a lottery of 8 pugs thrown together, and skill is not as important as when you queue in terms of gaining rating. Terrible players are mixed in with good players and the result is a disgusting quagmire of cancer. If thatís what you consider to be the height of competitive game play, I donít know what to tell you.

Group ranked is dead because no one wants to queue and get stomped by the top teams, not because itís irrelevant. Thatís what itís been in my experience, because very few people ever ask my team to queue against them unless itís challenges and they canít lose rating. If youíd like to play truly competitive matches, just dm me on the forums or something and we can set up a time to do fours against each other. If youíd rather just do solos and pretend that youíre a good player, I guess I can understand. But donít tell me no one good plays group ranked if you donít play that game mode.
People don't play team ranked because they don't want to lose 50 times to get the mats.. That is too painful and annoyingly long.

Mat farming kept team ranked alive as decent teams were queing and getting matched vs each other.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.06.2019 , 01:44 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Solo ranked is not a serious game mode. It is a lottery of 8 pugs thrown together, and skill is not as important as when you queue in terms of gaining rating. Terrible players are mixed in with good players and the result is a disgusting quagmire of cancer. If thatís what you consider to be the height of competitive game play, I donít know what to tell you.

Group ranked is dead because no one wants to queue and get stomped by the top teams, not because itís irrelevant. Thatís what itís been in my experience, because very few people ever ask my team to queue against them unless itís challenges and they canít lose rating. If youíd like to play truly competitive matches, just dm me on the forums or something and we can set up a time to do fours against each other. If youíd rather just do solos and pretend that youíre a good player, I guess I can understand. But donít tell me no one good plays group ranked if you donít play that game mode.
You fundamentally misunderstand me. Group ranked is literally irrelevant because it's dead. Whether you like it or not, practically speaking, solo ranked, flawed as it is, absolutely is the height of competitive gameplay in this game. If you think it isn't, you're just delusional. If you think being a former group ranked player makes you good at pvp, that's fairly laughable.

And just to underscore the point, no one good plays group ranked, because hardly anyone plays group ranked at all. Just for fun, here are some numbers from the leaderboards:

Total players in solo ranked: 14210
Total players in group ranked: 2322
(6 times as many in solos)

Players with 10 or more wins in solo ranked: 5690
Players with 10 or more wins in group ranked: 304
(about 19 times as many in solos)

Players with 20 or more wins in solo ranked: 3238
Players with 20 or more wins in group ranked: 104
(about 31 times as many in solos)

Players with 100 or more wins in solo ranked: 294
Players with 100 or more wins in group ranked: 0

I'm sure everyone can see and understand the implication of these numbers.

To bring this back on topic, my point is that any arguments against nerfing net because it would harm group ranked should not be taken at all seriously.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
06.06.2019 , 02:37 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
People don't play team ranked because they don't want to lose 50 times to get the mats.. That is too painful and annoyingly long.

Mat farming kept team ranked alive as decent teams were queing and getting matched vs each other.
No it didn't. They all dodged the top teams in queue. I was there, I was in chats with them, or in group queueing with them. all it did was kill the competitive ranking.

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.06.2019 , 03:11 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
You fundamentally misunderstand me. Group ranked is literally irrelevant because it's dead. Whether you like it or not, practically speaking, solo ranked, flawed as it is, absolutely is the height of competitive gameplay in this game. If you think it isn't, you're just delusional. If you think being a former group ranked player makes you good at pvp, that's fairly laughable.

And just to underscore the point, no one good plays group ranked, because hardly anyone plays group ranked at all. Just for fun, here are some numbers from the leaderboards:

Total players in solo ranked: 14210
Total players in group ranked: 2322
(6 times as many in solos)

Players with 10 or more wins in solo ranked: 5690
Players with 10 or more wins in group ranked: 304
(about 19 times as many in solos)

Players with 20 or more wins in solo ranked: 3238
Players with 20 or more wins in group ranked: 104
(about 31 times as many in solos)

Players with 100 or more wins in solo ranked: 294
Players with 100 or more wins in group ranked: 0

I'm sure everyone can see and understand the implication of these numbers.

To bring this back on topic, my point is that any arguments against nerfing net because it would harm group ranked should not be taken at all seriously.
You misunderstand... well, pretty much everything.

You might be noticing that I bring up group ranked in discussions. Why is that? Well, group ranked is the purest form of the trinity comp, which this whole game is based on. Operations are supposed to be two trinity comps. Flashpoints were designed for trinity comps. Even pvp was designed around the idea of trinity comps. Whenever all three roles are available, the solo ranked match maker arranges them into trinity comps. What does this mean, I wonder? Itís almost as though the whole game is based on trinity comps, and any balance changes should be based on them! Groundbreaking!

Now why should balance consider trinity comps? Well, if you make dps classes able to survive without the aid of a tank and healer, when you put tanks and heals into the matches, nothing will ever die. A dps that doesnít have a tank and a healer should die if they get netted over and over. If a dps can survive that without any outside help, then they will be immortal with a guard and a healer. This is why group ranked and trinity comps are relevant.

This is my third time explaining the same concept to you. For the sake of my sanity, please donít make me do it a fourth time.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
06.06.2019 , 03:35 PM | #17
In this case, Slimeydoom is correct, in that this game is designed around trinity and that is how it should be. You screw with trinity, you will break pve and pvp both.

That being said, E-net is only breakable with stun breaker and it has a duration of 2 hard stun. It needs to respect white bar. No movement impair while whitebarred, and upon placement on foe 3/4ths of resolve bar filled. (possible a "climbing" resolve that builds the longer they go with breakering. In that case, enet wo'nt start with 3/4ths, it will end with 3/4ths.

PS: There are two enets in swtor, but no one complains about the other one because it is balanced. Thesecond enet in swtor is carnage mara gore. you net someone for 2 seconds every 15 seconds. compare to enet, 90 seconds of cd, 8 sec duration. thats about 10 seconds of cd per 1 sec of duration. The reason enet is not balanced is swtor pvp happpens in dps windows, not in cleave pressure. does cleave work? yes, but you will be destroyed by a good hrd swap team, and the only counter to hrdswap is hrdswap.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.06.2019 , 03:44 PM | #18
Welcome back Hottie

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
06.06.2019 , 04:24 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
In this case, Slimeydoom is correct, in that this game is designed around trinity and that is how it should be. You screw with trinity, you will break pve and pvp both.

That being said, E-net is only breakable with stun breaker and it has a duration of 2 hard stun. It needs to respect white bar. No movement impair while whitebarred, and upon placement on foe 3/4ths of resolve bar filled. (possible a "climbing" resolve that builds the longer they go with breakering. In that case, enet wo'nt start with 3/4ths, it will end with 3/4ths.

PS: There are two enets in swtor, but no one complains about the other one because it is balanced. Thesecond enet in swtor is carnage mara gore. you net someone for 2 seconds every 15 seconds. compare to enet, 90 seconds of cd, 8 sec duration. thats about 10 seconds of cd per 1 sec of duration. The reason enet is not balanced is swtor pvp happpens in dps windows, not in cleave pressure. does cleave work? yes, but you will be destroyed by a good hrd swap team, and the only counter to hrdswap is hrdswap.
Exactly. Nobody complains about gore, also the hinder is 1.5 seconds (not 2) from what I recall, which means it is only within 1 full gcd window unless your alacrity is 1.3.

Whereas enet is just game breakingly bad

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.06.2019 , 05:36 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
You misunderstand... well, pretty much everything.

You might be noticing that I bring up group ranked in discussions. Why is that? Well, group ranked is the purest form of the trinity comp, which this whole game is based on. Operations are supposed to be two trinity comps. Flashpoints were designed for trinity comps. Even pvp was designed around the idea of trinity comps. Whenever all three roles are available, the solo ranked match maker arranges them into trinity comps. What does this mean, I wonder? Itís almost as though the whole game is based on trinity comps, and any balance changes should be based on them! Groundbreaking!

Now why should balance consider trinity comps? Well, if you make dps classes able to survive without the aid of a tank and healer, when you put tanks and heals into the matches, nothing will ever die. A dps that doesnít have a tank and a healer should die if they get netted over and over. If a dps can survive that without any outside help, then they will be immortal with a guard and a healer. This is why group ranked and trinity comps are relevant.

This is my third time explaining the same concept to you. For the sake of my sanity, please donít make me do it a fourth time.
Ironically, I've perfectly understood your point but you still haven't understood mine. Group ranked pvp (ie, trinity comp pvp) no longer exists for all practical purposes, so it makes very little sense to balance pvp around a game type that is no longer played. It doesn't matter what the original design philosophy was or that group ranked is the "purest" form of the trinity comp, whatever that means. Bioware should be able to recognize that regs and solos are all that matter now, and they should balance with those facts in mind.

The net nerfs that Hottie proposed would be most welcome in those game types and would lead to much more fun and balanced game play. And the great part is, there would be no downside to nerfing net, because no one is playing group ranked anyway. And the fact that the devs are highly unlikely to add unique mats to group ranked again (they said as much in the ama), there's no reason to think group ranked won't stay dead. Do you understand now? If not, I probably can't help you.