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Operative suvivability?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Operative suvivability?

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
05.29.2019 , 02:37 AM | #11
If a scoundrel is evading 4 people then they are certainly popping some cooldowns to make it happen. Guessing the stuns were maybe poorly timed? Need to start chaining stuns when the scoundrel gets low on health. If you stun too early and white bar them they just scamper out of line of sight and heal up.

When I PVP on my scoundrel, I do not fear for my safety and will engage large groups on my own. The class is amazing at what it does. I trust if I keep the dots and hots rolling that I will outlive anything that tries to kill me.

Had a warzone moment like the OP described where I survived a 1vs6 that no other class could and I still eventually capped the node.

Is the survivability too strong? I don't play scrapper much, but it seems like it's in an okay place right now. I'd say for ruffian it certainly feels like it's too strong, but ruffian doesn't have any real dangerous killing power. The spec needs the extra defences right now to compete in PVP. For example, the only chance ruffian has when trading blows with a marauder is that eventually, the ruffian will outlive the mara. Normally by the time ruffian's ramp-up is done and it's time to crank out brutal shots, the mara has got in a solid 4-5 gcds worth of damage and the ruffian is approaching half dead before they can even start to deal damage.

So, if you drop some of what makes scoundrels so strong then you end up with a result that makes them beyond weak. As it is right now, the class is balanced to win fights of attrition. Their damage in PVP is below that of other classes but it should be because they can live through almost anything. They can punch way above their weight in terms of survival. If you take that away, consider what you are left with. It would become a broken class for PVP because at a competitive level the class could not compete with the output and defences of other classes. Why pick a scoundrel that you need to play perfectly when you could facetank on a merc and still get quality damage?
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Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
05.29.2019 , 05:41 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
If a scoundrel is evading 4 people then they are certainly popping some cooldowns to make it happen. Guessing the stuns were maybe poorly timed? Need to start chaining stuns when the scoundrel gets low on health. If you stun too early and white bar them they just scamper out of line of sight and heal up.

When I PVP on my scoundrel, I do not fear for my safety and will engage large groups on my own. The class is amazing at what it does. I trust if I keep the dots and hots rolling that I will outlive anything that tries to kill me.

Had a warzone moment like the OP described where I survived a 1vs6 that no other class could and I still eventually capped the node.

Is the survivability too strong? I don't play scrapper much, but it seems like it's in an okay place right now. I'd say for ruffian it certainly feels like it's too strong, but ruffian doesn't have any real dangerous killing power. The spec needs the extra defences right now to compete in PVP. For example, the only chance ruffian has when trading blows with a marauder is that eventually, the ruffian will outlive the mara. Normally by the time ruffian's ramp-up is done and it's time to crank out brutal shots, the mara has got in a solid 4-5 gcds worth of damage and the ruffian is approaching half dead before they can even start to deal damage.

So, if you drop some of what makes scoundrels so strong then you end up with a result that makes them beyond weak. As it is right now, the class is balanced to win fights of attrition. Their damage in PVP is below that of other classes but it should be because they can live through almost anything. They can punch way above their weight in terms of survival. If you take that away, consider what you are left with. It would become a broken class for PVP because at a competitive level the class could not compete with the output and defences of other classes. Why pick a scoundrel that you need to play perfectly when you could facetank on a merc and still get quality damage?
Your moment in that video is exactly like I saw. You seemed to be at 75/80% HP when you were chain stunned and then you were close to death after the stuns wore off. So I guess if you aren't using a healing bot then that's just how strong the class is.

But don't you think its somewhat overpowered? As you say yourself no other class could entertain the idea of going 1v6 on a turret. Again as you say you can outlive any class in a 1v1 scenario which mean ultimately you can beat any class in a 1v1 scenario too.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.29.2019 , 08:29 AM | #13
It's a fair bit of luck that he survived that. At the end of his stun, he had like 2k health left, then he hit Dodge + adrenal + medpac, then roll healed away with white bar. The fact that this opponents weren't able to kill him while he was stunned tells me at least half of them were trash.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
05.29.2019 , 09:04 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
The fact that this opponents weren't able to kill him while he was stunned tells me at least half of them were trash.
That, OR operatives are OP'd.

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Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
05.29.2019 , 09:06 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
It's a fair bit of luck that he survived that. At the end of his stun, he had like 2k health left, then he hit Dodge + adrenal + medpac, then roll healed away with white bar. The fact that this opponents weren't able to kill him while he was stunned tells me at least half of them were trash.
Even still, if that happens to any other class they are still dead. He may well have survived the chain stun because the six players around him could not DPS him well enough, but without one utility self heal being on a very low cooldown, and the other defences also being on a low cooldown, he would have died very soon after the stun.

If Operatives / Scoundrels are to be nerfed (which I think they need to be since no other class can entertain the idea of trying to cap vs 6 players!) then the way to do it would be to increase their defensive and utility healing cooldowns. That way they would still be formidable in 1v1, but wouldn't make a mockery of other classes in a tactical WZ situation.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.29.2019 , 10:36 AM | #16
He survived with 2k health. After that, 4 of his enemies ran off knowing he was still alive. This is because players should never fight more than 2v1 at a node, or the other node(s) with fall. Had they stayed, I'm sure he would have died.

Scoundrels/Operatives are a skirmisher class. They win battles of attrition, particularly if there is plenty of LOS spots. That particular node on that map is literally the easiest one in the game for a scoundrel/op to hold indefinitely. Don't blame a well played op -- blame the map, and the baddies. Two well-played maras could have mopped the floor with his corpse. #nerfmaras
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
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Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
05.29.2019 , 03:36 PM | #17
No I second that Operatives need to be nerfed. I suggest they need their defensive cooldowns increased, then they would still formidable 1v1 but wouldn't be able to go 1v6 at a turret anymore. Its a joke that they can make a mockery of other classes like that. Not other class can even entertain the idea of trying to cap vs 4+ players, yet you see Operatives doing it all the time in regs.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.29.2019 , 03:39 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
No I second that Operatives need to be nerfed. I suggest they need their defensive cooldowns increased, then they would still formidable 1v1 but wouldn't be able to go 1v6 at a turret anymore. Its a joke that they can make a mockery of other classes like that. Not other class can even entertain the idea of trying to cap vs 4+ players, yet you see Operatives doing it all the time in regs.
all operatives collectively nod and cackle maniacaly

POST EDIT: so I believe I understand how this topic went south.. "defensive cooldown" in swtor is a term used to describe a defensive skill. the acronym is "dcd" Defensive CoolDown. what you mean to say, is "CoolDown" or, "cd"

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
05.29.2019 , 03:49 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
all operatives collectively nod and cackle maniacaly

POST EDIT: so I believe I understand how this topic went south.. "defensive cooldown" in swtor is a term used to describe a defensive skill. the acronym is "dcd" Defensive CoolDown. what you mean to say, is "CoolDown" or, "cd"
Ok so, cooldowns of defensive abilities increased? Is that more accurate? Of course no one wants their fave class to be nerfed, so I don't 't expect people who main Scoundrels and Operatives in PVP to be happy about potentially being nerfed. But that fact is it has happened before because a class was too strong and so it can happen again. Skanks were nerfed and as a result, while still strong, are not what they used to be.

DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
05.29.2019 , 04:26 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
No. If you get stunned when you pop evasion, you don't dodge any damage at all. Being stunned reduces dodge chance to 0% for the duration of the stun, that's why you always stun people during deflection, saberward, evasion, etc
I could swear that you can still dodge dmg if you pop evasion just before you get stunned. Interesting info, I'll test this, I've never noticed this on my op and I did get stunned while I had evasion on. Although I dont main op, on, juggs even if they stun you while you have reflect on, you'll still gonna reflect that stun dmg and thats a fact.