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Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.18.2019 , 08:36 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by blodvite View Post
I think in general offhealing is somewhat powerful in solo ranked, or just in general if utilized right. However I dont think removing Kolto Probes is the right way to go. The problem with probes from Ops/Scoundrels lies in the fact that they are practically spammable with not much punishment aside from consuming a global cooldown.

Althought Kolto Probes are practically vital for operative surviability I wouldn't mind seeing a change to how Kolto Probes from a concealment/lethality operative affects its team mates. Top of my head I can think of two changes I find kinda reasonable:

1. Increase energy cost for Kolto Probes when placed on team mates while specced as a dps. This would force ppl to offheal tactfully rather than spam Kolto Probes around as needed. You still retain the low energy cost when placed on yourself.

2. Decrease the stack limit of Kolto Probes to 1 that a dps specced operative can place on its teammates. While still being able to grant 2 stacks to himself. Basically a nerf to offhealing, especially in scenarios with multiple operatives on the same team.

But then again, a fair part of the problem lies in peoples inability to CC operatives properly in matches. Aswell as neglecting how powerful it is to simply rootkill an operative to death.
easiest solution in the world for their off-healing is to make the heals less effective for other players. problem solved. they're still going to be the best 1v1 class, so you need to focus them down early rather than let them hang around till the end, but all ops specs melt under focus and stun.
Krack

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
06.18.2019 , 08:52 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
easiest solution in the world for their off-healing is to make the heals less effective for other players.
Maybe make the first kolto probe do 50% healing and the second 150%

If you constantly keep 2 probes on your teammates, you're a healer playing in the wrong spec.
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QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
06.19.2019 , 03:05 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
The simple fact that no-one denies they are the absolute undisputed kings of 1v1 is proof enough that they need to be nerfed. Maybe nerfed isn't the right word, levelled out?

True 1v1 isn't a game format beyond 1v1 encounters in WZ and duels outside of WZ, but its still a very relevant part of play. Anyone who has ever guarded a node (and enjoys doing so) cares about 1v1 class balance. The fact is that Scoundrels / Operatives are so good at 1v1 that they can reliably go 1v2, 1v3 etc on a common basis. You can say all day long that 3 DPS who can't kill an Operative are bad players until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that no other class can do this against those 3 bad players. You will die eventually. (Please don't tell me about that occasion you won a 1v3 with your Sentinel / Jugg / sin whatever, the fact is Operatives do it all the time).

Can you imagine the outrage that would occur if Shadows were suddenly given 3 self heals, 2x30m abilities, increased armour rating, lowered their force speed to 10s cooldown and gave them immunity while force speed is active? On top of keeping their utility self heal that heals in stealth? That is basically what Scondrels / Operatives are now.

There is a reason good Operatives don't need to stealth out to win 1v1 duels, where as sins / Shadows do - again, please don't tell me about that one time you won a duel with as shadow and didn't stealth) fact is shadows stealth out of fights far more than Scoundrels / Operatives do.

I'm all for altering their abilities being the way forward. Remove Kolto probes, increase cooldown times of their DCDs, something like this. It would still be possible to retain their top tier 1v1 status, but they wouldn't be unbeatable anymore.
It should be easy for any decent player to survive against a single operative for long enough for help to come. It's a stealth class. It's their job. A sin is much more menacing and will kill you a lot faster if the skill is equal between the sin and the operative.

On the flipside. If you are trying to cap a node and an operative is defending... CC THE OPERATIVE. You know they're tanky. Why engage? Stun out of LoS and cap. It's not hard. Yes, most randoms don't have the mental capacity to understand this, but, if you see Derpy the Jugg going for the node cap in the middle of the fight.. be a good boy and use your big stun button on the operative. Uh oh! He broke it!? Use your mezz. There you go! You got the node!

It's not hard.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
06.19.2019 , 08:47 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
Yes, most randoms don't have the mental capacity to understand this, but, if you see Derpy the Jugg going for the node cap in the middle of the fight.. be a good boy and use your big stun button on the operative. Uh oh! He broke it!? Use your mezz. There you go! You got the node!
Nice to see you back on the forums Arvengis, posts like this are always good for a laugh. Thanks.
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Werronious's Avatar


Werronious
06.19.2019 , 11:51 PM | #95
well all dps classes have some sort of self heals, so they need to buff sin/shadows too, we need instant heals and regens like all other dps classes.

Werronious's Avatar


Werronious
06.19.2019 , 11:58 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
The simple fact that no-one denies they are the absolute undisputed kings of 1v1 is proof enough that they need to be nerfed. Maybe nerfed isn't the right word, levelled out?

True 1v1 isn't a game format beyond 1v1 encounters in WZ and duels outside of WZ, but its still a very relevant part of play. Anyone who has ever guarded a node (and enjoys doing so) cares about 1v1 class balance. The fact is that Scoundrels / Operatives are so good at 1v1 that they can reliably go 1v2, 1v3 etc on a common basis. You can say all day long that 3 DPS who can't kill an Operative are bad players until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that no other class can do this against those 3 bad players. You will die eventually. (Please don't tell me about that occasion you won a 1v3 with your Sentinel / Jugg / sin whatever, the fact is Operatives do it all the time).

Can you imagine the outrage that would occur if Shadows were suddenly given 3 self heals, 2x30m abilities, increased armour rating, lowered their force speed to 10s cooldown and gave them immunity while force speed is active? On top of keeping their utility self heal that heals in stealth? That is basically what Scondrels / Operatives are now.

There is a reason good Operatives don't need to stealth out to win 1v1 duels, where as sins / Shadows do - again, please don't tell me about that one time you won a duel with as shadow and didn't stealth) fact is shadows stealth out of fights far more than Scoundrels / Operatives do.

I'm all for altering their abilities being the way forward. Remove Kolto probes, increase cooldown times of their DCDs, something like this. It would still be possible to retain their top tier 1v1 status, but they wouldn't be unbeatable anymore.
yea as a shadow my vanish is my priority button, I hug it all the times. And then after using it I need to wait 45s-1min for a combat to wear off. Plus I need to find safe spot to use meditation heal.
Let the scoundrels stay the same but give shadows regen and single heal from sages. You took everything from us, our dps our teleport.

Ksiphon's Avatar


Ksiphon
06.27.2019 , 01:56 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
So i had an arena match on my merc healer with 3 dps vs 4 dps, one of them fully decked out 258 operative.

After the first round they ended up doing two thirds of my healing. some 600k v 400k. We lost, i died first i think, no im not great, but im also not a trash can.

That is a lot of *********** healing on a DPS.... y is kolto probes not an exclusive operative healer ability? Insta cast, low energy cost. At the very least a DPS should not be able to cast kolto probes on group members unless they r specced heals.

Operative can simply do too much, basically acting as a healer and a very very slippery DPS as well.
Totally agree. Take away kolto probes from operatives. Let them eat 1 Electro Net per minute(1 ENPM) without probes and while we're at it, take away their kolto infusion too. Way too OP.
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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
06.27.2019 , 02:49 PM | #98
TBH, I'm looking for a reason to not have to waste 2 GCD's applying 2 stacks of probes. I'd be happy if they took away 1-stack from dps operatives. Increase the healing of the 1-stack by 25-33% or so.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
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kissingaiur
06.27.2019 , 02:50 PM | #99
i had a great discussion with one of my friends, mac, about operative dps and how the whole class needs a redesign, i couldnt agree more

concealment has always been this weird gimmicky off healer dps hybrid. the only reason they are good is because they are good at running away. having a melee class that is designed around run away as a defensive is completely absurd (one of the reasons i was all for them removing phase walk from sin dps and adding 60% dr on phase speed). give dps operatives dcds that actually matter, remove roll immunity and nerf their healing by 50%. give them dcds that allow them to stay in the back line and be an actual melee class without having to run away every time they get hit and heal up. removing roll immunity and their healing would make those secondary to the spec and making dps be the primary focus of the class, as it should be.
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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
06.27.2019 , 02:56 PM | #100
A redesign would be interesting, but I can't see them doing it with all these tac items and new set bonuses coming out.

For PVE, scoundrels and operative dps are fine. I even take scrapper into hm/nim
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.