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I'm wondering about the status of the Jedi Council post-KOTFE


BelorfinSiana

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There's been much said about the Sith Empress/Emperor and the Dark Council, since they lead the Imperial government. The Jedi Council on the other hand has been M.I.A. for a while now. Does it exist anymore? Does the consular still have a place on it? Is there a new Grand Master? With the faction warfare coming back to the forefront, I imagine we'll get some kind of answers in 6.0... and hopefully Kira Carsen isn't dead. ;)
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The Jedi seems to have spread throughout the galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised if the council members kept each other in the dark about their operations so as to not risk revealing their location to the Sith.
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Actually, I've been kinda curious as to who might make up a Jedi council, assuming Bioware would only represent it with Jedi characters that don't have a possible death situation or completely new ones.

 

With Nathema, master Kiwiiks is another character that can be supposedly dead, (could she die in the vanila story?) and as far as I can read from the wiki that makes Satele Shan and Giffis Fane the only ones that have appeared in SWTOR that have no possible death scenarios. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

 

I was disappointed not to see Nalen Raloch on Ossus, given that other Kalikori settlers were there, but maybe I can be lucky and characters specific to the different classes might make apperances yet.

 

What might be some Jedi characters that we have known from the story and quest content, that don't have possible death scenarios? Maybe some of them would make it to the council.

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So far as I know only Satele is the both a major character in the game and a Jedi Council Member who cannot die in the story.

 

Shol Bestros is the only other Jedi Council Member that cannot die, however he's such a minor character (a Republic quest giver for the Eternity Vault operation) that I don't expect to see him again.

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So far as I know only Satele is the both a major character in the game and a Jedi Council Member who cannot die in the story.

 

Shol Bestros is the only other Jedi Council Member that cannot die, however he's such a minor character (a Republic quest giver for the Eternity Vault operation) that I don't expect to see him again.

Shol is "frozen in time", just like most aspects of almost all MMORPGs(1). (Think of Padawan Fia - she's always there looking for someone to carry a holorecording to Master Til'lin (?sp), and will always always be there like that.)

 

(1) Notable exceptions:

* The instanced nature of the world outside towns in GW1 meant that these areas *could* change as the character(s) progressed through the story, although generally it was a question of the NPC / foe content rather than the terrain.

* GW2's Lion's Arch now looks nothing like it did when the game launched, and neither does the western side of Divinity's Reach, and there are random oddments scattered around the world that are remnants of Living World Season One.

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Actually, I've been kinda curious as to who might make up a Jedi council, assuming Bioware would only represent it with Jedi characters that don't have a possible death situation or completely new ones.

 

With Nathema, master Kiwiiks is another character that can be supposedly dead, (could she die in the vanila story?) and as far as I can read from the wiki that makes Satele Shan and Giffis Fane the only ones that have appeared in SWTOR that have no possible death scenarios. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

 

I was disappointed not to see Nalen Raloch on Ossus, given that other Kalikori settlers were there, but maybe I can be lucky and characters specific to the different classes might make apperances yet.

 

What might be some Jedi characters that we have known from the story and quest content, that don't have possible death scenarios? Maybe some of them would make it to the council.

 

Assuming light Side choices in JC and JK and Imperial storylines:

 

- Even if Bela Kiwiiks isn't dead the shock drum incident was a very trying one for her, to the point she almost lost her force connection so deep was she sustaining herself in the force not to get ripped apart by the drums effects on things around it. It is unknown if there was any long lasting damage from the incident.

 

- Youn Parr was never that strong in the force as she acknowledged when she said that your character was stronger in the force when you were a toddler than she was when she was a teenager, and the events around Terrak Morrhages likely still has effects on her mental state that aren't likely to disappear any time soon, that is besides the point, she was already old by the time she helped train your character and your character was the last one she'd teach which suggests she wasn't far off from retreating from life in general even if she wasn't controlled by Terrak. It is unknown what the long term effects of being cut off from the plaguemaster will have on Youn.

 

- Tol Braga was mind dominated by the emperor like your character, he believed himself invulerable to failure until he ran across the emperor and failed, hard. That was an easy way into Tol's mental state for the emperor until the emperor was knocked out of him. It is clear that Braga is a broken man after those events and i doubt he will ever recover to have the mind to sit on the jedi council again.

 

- Syo Bakarn is also in the same position as Tol Braga, Syo has the emperors first son inside of him, after pushing him out and keeping him under control within his mind, there is no way Syo could ever trust himself to come back and sit on the council for fear the first son will influence him over time and create opportunities during Syo's weaknesses and days where he isn't on top of his emotional state. Syo probably feels himself to be a threat to everyone around him and seclusion is the only way to deal with it.

 

- Orgus Din was executed by Angral, Jedi Knight storyline.

 

- Jeric Kaeden was assassinated by an Imperial player character, Imperial Ilum Storyline.

 

- Gnost Dural is currently in Imperial custody likely being tortured for information, Imperial Ossus storyline.

 

(I wish i had access to the wiki so i can get precise information, but it requres a cookie accept, so i'm going from what i know. Can't gaurantee any accuracy.)

Edited by Celise
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I was rather referring to other Jedi characters that can't die, that we have encountered, that might be elevated to the position of council member in the vacuum left by the deaths of the current council. (Because they don't have variable scenarios to account for when writing the story).

 

Another hope of mine (but not an expactation) would be if bioware implemented Jedi characters in the coming story content, that the player can encounter during the vanilla story missions.

 

For example Ardun Kothe for agents, Sumalee for smugglers, etc. Bioware usually don't delve into large bags of variables like this, but I think it would be kinda awesome (and I think almost all classes come across at least one unique jedi character in their story). Even not as council members they would be neat to encounter again. They could have an original replacement character to play their role for players that either don't have a character that coudl take the role, or for those that chose to kill the characters they met.

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Unfortunately, I think nearly every Jedi NPC encountered in the various stories is also possibly killable, especially after Nathema.

 

Sumalee and Kiwiiks can die on Nathema. Praven, Warren Sedoru, and Bengal Morr can die in the Knight story. Nariel can die in the Smuggler story. Master Timmns can die in the Sith Warrior story. Arden Kothe can die in the Agent story.

 

Unaw Aharo from the Jedi Knight story, does always survive the events of the Knight story. I believe he is last heard from during the Shadow of Revan storyline. I'm not sure who else, Jomar and Leeha maybe?

Edited by OldVengeance
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Unfortunately, I think nearly every Jedi NPC encountered in the various stories is also possibly killable, especially after Nathema.

 

Sumalee and Kiwiiks can die on Nathema. Praven, Warren Sedoru, and Bengal Morr can die in the Knight story. Nariel can die in the Smuggler story. Master Timmns can die in the Sith Warrior story. Arden Kothe can die in the Agent story.

 

Unaw Aharo from the Jedi Knight story, does always survive the events of the Knight story. I believe he is last heard from during the Shadow of Revan storyline. I'm not sure who else, Jomar and Leeha maybe?

 

Even if Ardun Kothe did survive, he has spent the better part of his life as a spy and has no qualms about doing things another Jedi would never do, for example, being the one to activate and trap someones mind in castellan restraints and force that person to act with no alternative, that isn't an act worthy of a jedi at all as every moral standard he has as a Jedi is flushed away in a single act. Further he is willing to leave the poor soul trapped in the restraints behind after the mission completes and with no regard for their wellbeing to do anything about it, that says a lot about his current behaviour as a Jedi.

 

Ardun has spent too much time playing spy games that he'd never be able to make it on the council knowing what his record says about him and when he is questioned on his past he can't lie about it.

 

I wouldn't say that Jomar and Leeha are ready though, if they sit in the same room discussing things? they may fall into old habits with all that sexual tension they got from before when they were involved with each other, it could very well resurface and make things awkward. only a few years have passed and not long enough for them to get over each other. i can see one or the other as a possibility but not both.

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Like I said, encountering old faces without the council in mind would be neat also. I always hoped Bioware would implement more story material with cases like Wrex/Wreav or Mordin/Wiks in the Mass Effect series if you are familiar. Write a role for a Jedi character that is familiar with the main character and have an original character to replace them where applicable,

 

As for the council, I could imagine Jomar eventually becoming a seat holder, but Leeha was one of the ones taken over by the emperor, right? It would be kinda interesting to see how that story element would present itself now that the empreror is gone for good.

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It would be nice to see NPC padawans from Tython, like Fia, Spanios and Moracen etc repopulate the new jedi council, the way they gave a nod to that unmentionable sith acolyte from Korriban on Ossus.

 

Can I just say, it was really stupid to kill off Kaedan the way they did? He was a good character. As an imperial [or even pubside] you could really grow to hate Kaedan.

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Jeric Kaeden is hardly jedi material let alone one for the council, how he survived for as long as he had on the council before making the one mistake Jedi should never make, to fight power with power and make the first move, i'll never know. Never-the-less, he got the ending he was clearly looking for based on his militant approach to things.

 

I was thinking of Moracen and Spanios in the previous reply but considering their relationship and how secretive they were, as well as how one was almost willing to kill to keep it secret? I doubt either of them are considered a shining example of what it means to be a Jedi. It depends if the masters managed to get those desires out of their students and set them on a proper path, but like Leeha and Jomar, that wanton lust and desire won't be easy to ignore if both Moracen and Spanios find each other alone again, even years later.

 

I was thinking of other Jedi that could become masters, i mean there are those padawans who needed help against flesh raiders, Fia is another, there are those two Jedi Padawans at the foot the staircase leading into the jedi temple, they direct you to trainers within. The Jedi masters involved in the flesh raider idols, the Jedi who wants you to kill Horranths and their eggs. I was also thinking of the trainers and reluctantly the masters of Moracen and Spanios, as one is already too old to be a council member. You need individuals in the prime of their lives but had plenty of experience as Jedi with their powers.

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I liked Kaedan. He was obviously intended to be the council's version of Ravage, an irritating curmudgeon. I would have given him extra dialogues for DS jedi to reflect that. His fight on Illum was entirely forgettable, and I've since noticed that every time his VA shows up, he's progressively more overacting. HK's VA does the same thing.

 

As for the flaws with the other jedi, it doesn't matter. They raised whats-her-face from lord Renning's assistant to DC member, they're clearly scratching the bottom of the barrel. Perhaps we could make that jedi who couldn't lift the rock [DSers lie for him, LSers shamelessly suck up to his master] on Tython a grimdark pub Saboteur.

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Even if Ardun Kothe did survive, he has spent the better part of his life as a spy and has no qualms about doing things another Jedi would never do, for example, being the one to activate and trap someones mind in castellan restraints and force that person to act with no alternative, that isn't an act worthy of a jedi at all as every moral standard he has as a Jedi is flushed away in a single act. Further he is willing to leave the poor soul trapped in the restraints behind after the mission completes and with no regard for their wellbeing to do anything about it, that says a lot about his current behaviour as a Jedi.

 

Ardun has spent too much time playing spy games that he'd never be able to make it on the council knowing what his record says about him and when he is questioned on his past he can't lie about it.

 

I wouldn't say that Jomar and Leeha are ready though, if they sit in the same room discussing things? they may fall into old habits with all that sexual tension they got from before when they were involved with each other, it could very well resurface and make things awkward. only a few years have passed and not long enough for them to get over each other. i can see one or the other as a possibility but not both.

 

Arden Kothe is well aware of the moral failings of his past, I don't remember it being established that he was willing to leave the Agent in Castellan restraints after the mission, though. The Agent freed themselves before the mission was complete.

 

He says he's become a better man if he survives to the end of the Agent story, so if he can do that, I think he could theoretically be on the Jedi Council. It's a moot point though, because he's killable.

 

I don't think Jomar and Leeha are Jedi Council material either, but there's nothing to say they necessarily were interested in getting over eachother.

 

But on the other hand, the Jedi Consular could end up getting married and still end up on the Jedi Council.

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He too could have ended up dead, but otherwise Jedi Master Timmns from the SW Belsavis story would make a good council member. He's cool-headed enough to work with a Sith against a greater threat but not naive enough to leave out precautions for eventual betrayal.
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Arden Kothe is well aware of the moral failings of his past, I don't remember it being established that he was willing to leave the Agent in Castellan restraints after the mission, though. The Agent freed themselves before the mission was complete.

.

 

Just went through that mission today, he definitely had no intention of freeing you.

 

paraphrasing: "You're part in this is done, stay where you are and hold position there, we'll be in contact in a few months + keyword"

 

Then watcher x hallucination shows up and you break free.

 

When you confont him, he describes his own actions as unforgivable.

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There's also one un-killable Jedi in Consular's story. Atross Finn is a dreamy researcher / healer who treated Yuon on Coruscant. I'd be very happy if we see him and the other surviving padawans back for 6.0 onwards. I'd EXTRA happy if he ends up being a companion but

 

I think we're probably getting Tau's padawan instead...

 

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I just replayed the Illum story bit on the pub side and was presented with another Jedi master, Master not-Syo, that I don't recall turning up elsewhere, maybe he survived the infinite invasion too.

Can he die? I always make him go with the rest of the main forces, I think you only hear from him again if you save the jedi temple artifacts. I think you get an email from him apologizing for being selfish.

Edited by JuventusAndFCK
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