I just wish we could have redeemed her, I feel like a total dick for killing her, but saving Arcann, while she was arguably a much more "innocent" person. More messed up by far, but not beyond saving, my JK was crying manly tears, every life is precious.

...and then he went on to kill bagilion random troopers.

I just wish we could have redeemed her, I feel like a total dick for killing her, but saving Arcann, while she was arguably a much more "innocent" person. More messed up by far, but not beyond saving, my JK was crying manly tears, every life is precious.

...and then he went on to kill bagilion random troopers.

Your JK also made an attempt to save and turn what he thought was the Sith Emperor.

Your JK also made an attempt to save and turn what he thought was the Sith Emperor.

Yea, how come he gets a chance?

I just wish we could have redeemed her, I feel like a total dick for killing her, but saving Arcann, while she was arguably a much more "innocent" person. More messed up by far, but not beyond saving, my JK was crying manly tears, every life is precious.

...and then he went on to kill bagilion random troopers.

I feel the same for my Shadow. She has already brought back various people who have done as bad things as Vaylin.

Parkanas Tark

Laranna Fain

Syo Bakarn

Eriz Vossan

Calphayus

Arcann

I think the major point is that Vaylin didn't want to be saved, Arcaan didn't either for that matter it was literally taken out of his hands.. That said I always found the way it was framed kind of annoying in that.. *Arcaan destroys five worlds and orders the entirety of the knights of zakuul to pair off and fight to the death* <-- you can be forgiven, no worries I didn't know those people anyway.

*Vaylin kills exactly one person you actually know and may or may not care about in front of you* you're beyond redemption, you have to die, you're too dangerous to be left alive!

All of that said Vaylin dying was pretty much a foregone conclusion the moment Valkorion called her his "favorite" given who he is you know that translates into "broken beyond the ability to repair and better off dead" and given what was done to her, which was like something out of a horror movie, she's much more mentally and emotionally scarred than either of her brothers.

Beyond that the only possible way to help her would probably be to subdue her long enough to do the ritual on Voss to draw the darkside corruption out of her so she could be worked with.. and I can't really imagine a scenario where that would have been possible given that she's a monster /before/ she gets her force-restraints off

My main is an Inquisitor. I would just throw her into the Belsavis Mother Machine and tell it to 'rebuild' her without the crazy part.

Failing that go DS-V and join her. I'm more than happy to turn on Senya and Arcann during that fight.

I think the major point is that Vaylin didn't want to be saved, Arcaan didn't either for that matter it was literally taken out of his hands.. That said I always found the way it was framed kind of annoying in that.. *Arcaan destroys five worlds and orders the entirety of the knights of zakuul to pair off and fight to the death* <-- you can be forgiven, no worries I didn't know those people anyway.

 

*Vaylin kills exactly one person you actually know and may or may not care about in front of you* you're beyond redemption, you have to die, you're too dangerous to be left alive!

 

All of that said Vaylin dying was pretty much a foregone conclusion the moment Valkorion called her his "favorite" given who he is you know that translates into "broken beyond the ability to repair and better off dead" and given what was done to her, which was like something out of a horror movie, she's much more mentally and emotionally scarred than either of her brothers.

 

Beyond that the only possible way to help her would probably be to subdue her long enough to do the ritual on Voss to draw the darkside corruption out of her so she could be worked with.. and I can't really imagine a scenario where that would have been possible given that she's a monster /before/ she gets her force-restraints off

Yes, Arcann being just allowed into the Alliance without question but Vaylin just having to die sets my teeth on edge. And I'm not really against being able to save him, as long as we don't have to for the people that dislike him. They both kill a lot of people, after all.

But, yeah, that's what she said. Personally, I just wanted to have one compassionate dialog option and no forcing her to kneel to her abuser. I'm not a fan of using mental illness and abuse to create a villain, but even so, that's just nasty. My go-to example is simply being able to say she CAN be saved, and her saying she never wanted to be. It would make it less grotesque.

That's not to say we never try to reason with her. We do. But once we get to Kneel, none of that is enough.

As for her being a monster (I'm assuming you mean in the sense of "ridiculously powerful"), if they'd left in the dialog they apparently had with ships being pulled from orbit I might have accepted it. But, ultimately, we walk up to within reach if using a lightsaber (I mean, we plant feet and drive the weapon through her up to the hilt), we could have knocked her out, and blasters have stun settings. That entire scene, if we are meant to believe there was no other way, needed to be revamped heavily. Because it wasn't, it felt to me like we were punishing her rather than ending a threat, since at that point other options were available.

Maybe "there was no other way" was what they intended, but if so, I think they failed. There are some other things, but this is too long as it is.

Honestly, she was tortured enough and probably "unstable" enough that even if it were possible to purge her of magical Force powers or anything, of that sort they could make the argument that she still would be dangerous. It just would have been nice to be allowed to try. There were ways to handle this even if she must die, but if for whatever reason they couldn't, they should have given us some means to let her live, even if it's no more plausible than Arcann being accepted. I would have been fine with that.

Yes, Arcann being just allowed into the Alliance without question but Vaylin just having to die sets my teeth on edge. And I'm not really against being able to save him, as long as we don't have to for the people that dislike him. They both kill a lot of people, after all.

 

But, yeah, that's what she said. Personally, I just wanted to have one compassionate dialog option and no forcing her to kneel to her abuser. I'm not a fan of using mental illness and abuse to create a villain, but even so, that's just nasty. My go-to example is simply being able to say she CAN be saved, and her saying she never wanted to be. It would make it less grotesque.

 

That's not to say we never try to reason with her. We do. But once we get to Kneel, none of that is enough.

 

As for her being a monster (I'm assuming you mean in the sense of "ridiculously powerful"), if they'd left in the dialog they apparently had with ships being pulled from orbit I might have accepted it. But, ultimately, we walk up to within reach if using a lightsaber (I mean, we plant feet and drive the weapon through her up to the hilt), we could have knocked her out, and blasters have stun settings. That entire scene, if we are meant to believe there was no other way, needed to be revamped heavily. Because it wasn't, it felt to me like we were punishing her rather than ending a threat, since at that point other options were available.

 

Maybe "there was no other way" was what they intended, but if so, I think they failed. There are some other things, but this is too long as it is.

 

Honestly, she was tortured enough and probably "unstable" enough that even if it were possible to purge her of magical Force powers or anything, of that sort they could make the argument that she still would be dangerous. It just would have been nice to be allowed to try. There were ways to handle this even if she must die, but if for whatever reason they couldn't, they should have given us some means to let her live, even if it's no more plausible than Arcann being accepted. I would have been fine with that.

Agreed

Honestly, she was tortured enough and probably "unstable" enough that even if it were possible to purge her of magical Force powers or anything, of that sort they could make the argument that she still would be dangerous. It just would have been nice to be allowed to try. There were ways to handle this even if she must die, but if for whatever reason they couldn't, they should have given us some means to let her live, even if it's no more plausible than Arcann being accepted. I would have been fine with that.

In the deleted scenes (which I'm assuming you watched as you're aware about the ships being dragged down from orbit) she does have a change of heart after you beat her. When she comes to the realization Valkorion has been manipulating both of you. That would have been the ideal moment to 'turn' her to your side and go down the enemy of my enemy is my friend path.

In the deleted scenes (which I'm assuming you watched as you're aware about the ships being dragged down from orbit) she does have a change of heart after you beat her. When she comes to the realization Valkorion has been manipulating both of you. That would have been the ideal moment to 'turn' her to your side and go down the enemy of my enemy is my friend path.

Yeah, she basically says that she can't surrender because we're a puppet of her father, that he won't show her mercy. And because of the way it's set up, she's absolutely right. It's one of the things that would make it better for me: that he was influencing us and therefore our out of character behavior was on him. I've always thought the breaking point was making our characters do it without remorse. Her dying because of the ritual or being controlled by the Emperor for that moment would have resolved the problem.

It would have made it worse for people that were creeped out by things like the IA story, though. Giving us the option to save her, or at least try to save her, would have solved all of that.

Yeah, she basically says that she can't surrender because we're a puppet of her father, that he won't show her mercy. And because of the way it's set up, she's absolutely right. It's one of the things that would make it better for me: that he was influencing us and therefore our out of character behavior was on him. I've always thought the breaking point was making our characters do it without remorse. Her dying because of the ritual or being controlled by the Emperor for that moment would have resolved the problem.

 

It would have made it worse for people that were creeped out by things like the IA story, though. Giving us the option to save her, or at least try to save her, would have solved all of that.

Just stunning her in the leg then getting some force users to minimize her connection to the force would have done nicely

- - -

Heh, we're at the two year mark today. May the great god Nahut lead us to the light of victory!

Wow, this is what I come back to! It's really cool to know how everyone thought about this. The fact that everyone had such different opinions and reasonings proves to me that a major choice option should have been presented at the end of the Vaylin fight. Maybe Bioware can think of something in the meantime, maybe a surprise Vaylin appearance. Maybe their done entirely with Zakuul, we'll see!

Hopefully they'll do this one thing and change her fate, even if it's only in a two minute bit that leaves us with her getting therapy. Or helping us burn the galaxy down, I'm good with either at this point, Either way, I'd like to see her able to hang out with our characters, honestly. Or with us deciding that she needs to stay dead, not a decision I feel I would ever make but I'm not going to take that away from anyone that feels that way.

Wow, this is what I come back to! It's really cool to know how everyone thought about this. The fact that everyone had such different opinions and reasonings proves to me that a major choice option should have been presented at the end of the Vaylin fight. Maybe Bioware can think of something in the meantime, maybe a surprise Vaylin appearance. Maybe their done entirely with Zakuul, we'll see!

Welcome back

It's got quiet recently but there have been a fair few Vaylin themed posts on SWTOR, Twitter, Reddit, etc.

Welcome back

 

It's got quiet recently but there have been a fair few Vaylin themed posts on SWTOR, Twitter, Reddit, etc.

Any news about subject? The guys from BW thought up, give us Vaylin, so that we are leave them alone?

Any news about subject? The guys from BW thought up, give us Vaylin, so that we are leave them alone?

I think the last time it came up was during this Bad Feeling Podcast from December of last year. I'll need to relisten to it later to remember what was said.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348746660

You've also got people talking about it on Reddit.

I actually feel sorry for Vaylin with what her father did to her in the past and the experiments that was used on her and then what her father did controlling her in the end. I wish there was an option to actually help her and get her to join you like her brother could

Yeah, there was a lot of her story I could have tolerated, even her death, but to not even be given a real opportunity to try while spewing Valkorion-lite nonsense was too much.

Yeah, there was a lot of her story I could have tolerated, even her death, but to not even be given a real opportunity to try while spewing Valkorion-lite nonsense was too much.

This is just what I'm thinking and probably way out there but I don't think she is gone just like I don't think Valkorion is gone either. I think they are still stuck in the Player Characters mind as spirits just waiting to be released/freed, if that is true like I like to think. Then both could easily be released though probably in a different body.

This is just what I'm thinking and probably way out there but I don't think she is gone just like I don't think Valkorion is gone either. I think they are still stuck in the Player Characters mind as spirits just waiting to be released/freed, if that is true like I like to think. Then both could easily be released though probably in a different body.

One of the few ways I'd accept Valkorion's return is if he dragged her back with him, really. And then we all get together to take him down again.

Don't know if I'm a minority on this or not but I always thought this "I hope she could be turned away from her course of action and join the Outlander maybe even as a party member". I really hoped that would have been the case have both brother and sister join

That's what I would have liked. They did too much to show that she lacked any real agency for me to like how she was treated. If she's just been a villain of her own free will, what happened would have been fine, but after Betrayed it became really hard for me, at least, to see her that way. But, so it goes. They said it was a mistake, maybe they'll eventually do something better, but the "better" sounds like it's going to be slight if it happens at all.

That's what I would have liked. They did too much to show that she lacked any real agency for me to like how she was treated. If she's just been a villain of her own free will, what happened would have been fine, but after Betrayed it became really hard for me, at least, to see her that way. But, so it goes. They said it was a mistake, maybe they'll eventually do something better, but the "better" sounds like it's going to be slight if it happens at all.

We'll need to invent time travel! Go back in time and kill our past selves to save Vaylin ... then during the confusion we knock Vaylin out and return to our time! Then we'll learn if Star Wars has a multiverse.

We'll need to invent time travel! Go back in time and kill our past selves to save Vaylin ... then during the confusion we knock Vaylin out and return to our time! Then we'll learn if Star Wars has a multiverse.

I came back for a while and I want to say - SWTOR is not considered a Canon, so who knows...