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How much accuracy do I want?


stephenjohnp

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Actually, this is a bit wrong. Special melee attacks (re: everything but your basic attack) have a 100% chance to hit. The reason that you don't always hit is because operations bosses have a certain amount of defense (6-8%, iirc) that needs to be counteracted.

 

Not true. If you read the linked post above (Tam's one on Accuracy being harmful for tanks). Special Melee attacks have a base 95% accuracy (his examples being Double Strike and Spinning Strike). Presumably to offset the base 5% Defence chance.

 

For a Guardian that list is a lot longer: Overhead Slash, Sundering Strike, Master Strike, Leap, Throw, Dispatch and Riposte. Yes, I have seen every single one of those "Miss" (or "Dodge") on an Ops boss. For reference I have 3% Accuracy from my tree and 1% from Legacy. Giving me a base Melee Accuracy of 94%. I have none on my gear.

 

Agreeing with Kitru, I'd probably add in Strength before I added any accuracy (swapping Guardian armourings for Might ones), but I'd add accuracy before adding Power, Crit or Surge. That said: I personally don't have an issue with threat so its a trivial argument.

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Not true. If you read the linked post above (Tam's one on Accuracy being harmful for tanks). Special Melee attacks have a base 95% accuracy (his examples being Double Strike and Spinning Strike). Presumably to offset the base 5% Defence chance.

 

That was my point. It's 100% base chance to hit before factoring in enemy Defense chance. You only need enough accuracy to offset the target's defense in order to hit with every special attack you make. Anything beyond the 5-8% (I've heard/read numbers that vary) needed to offset that Defense chance only serves to reduce the chance of missing with your basic attack (which is almost completely negligible improvement in DPS, no matter the class).

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That was my point. It's 100% base chance to hit before factoring in enemy Defense chance. You only need enough accuracy to offset the target's defense in order to hit with every special attack you make. Anything beyond the 5-8% (I've heard/read numbers that vary) needed to offset that Defense chance only serves to reduce the chance of missing with your basic attack (which is almost completely negligible improvement in DPS, no matter the class).

 

If that were true I would never miss with my Master Strike, Dispatch, Throw, Leap or Overhead Slash. I have seen all of those miss on multiple occasions.

 

Here is my parse of last nights TFB HM run. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/ca20b811-e1b0-4651-9c5a-59b695dcf794/player/1#d=0,b=1

 

Please note the misses on the above abilities.

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If that were true I would never miss with my Master Strike, Dispatch, Throw, Leap or Overhead Slash. I have seen all of those miss on multiple occasions.

 

You've got 4% accuracy from external sources (Legacy and spec). You had a ~14% miss chance with your basic attack and a 4% miss chance with your special attacks. Ergo, the boss has an 8% defense chance (104% accuracy reduced to 96% accuracy and 94% accuracy reduced to 86% accuracy), which is within the realm of what I've generally heard. Your parse is completely in line with what I was saying. Honestly, I find it likely that different bosses have different defense amounts, which is one of the reasons why it hasn't really been pinned down.

Edited by Kitru
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You've got 4% accuracy from external sources (Legacy and spec). You had a ~14% miss chance with your basic attack and a 4% miss chance with your special attacks. Ergo, the boss has an 8% defense chance (104% accuracy reduced to 96% accuracy and 94% accuracy reduced to 86% accuracy), which is within the realm of what I've generally heard. Your parse is completely in line with what I was saying. Honestly, I find it likely that different bosses have different defense amounts, which is one of the reasons why it hasn't really been pinned down.

 

If that were the case then why does Master Strike/Dispatch miss some of the time but Blade Storm never miss? I would chalk it up to yellow damage being Force/Tech and using Force/Tech accuracy while White damage is Melee/Ranged and uses that accuracy.

 

You chalk the difference up to Defence chance and most people claim that Force/Tech never misses. Now given that Force/Tech has a base 100% accuracy and special attacks have a 5% bonus to accuracy, I can see where that (IMO incorrect) assumption would come from.

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If that were the case then why does Master Strike/Dispatch miss some of the time but Blade Storm never miss? I would chalk it up to yellow damage being Force/Tech and using Force/Tech accuracy while White damage is Melee/Ranged and uses that accuracy.

 

This has been covered a hundred times... Yellow Damage (Tech and Force attacks) NEVER miss.

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If that were the case then why does Master Strike/Dispatch miss some of the time but Blade Storm never miss? I would chalk it up to yellow damage being Force/Tech and using Force/Tech accuracy while White damage is Melee/Ranged and uses that accuracy.

 

You chalk the difference up to Defence chance and most people claim that Force/Tech never misses. Now given that Force/Tech has a base 100% accuracy and special attacks have a 5% bonus to accuracy, I can see where that (IMO incorrect) assumption would come from.

 

First off, special melee attacks don't have some arbitrary 5% bonus to their accuracy.. It's a specifically listed 10% higher base hit chance. The reason there is a difference between Resistance Chance (applied to Force/Tech attacks) and Defense Chance (applied to melee/ranged attacks).

 

Once again, there is a *difference* between Defense Chance and Resistance Chance; having one does not equate to the other. NPCs are known to have a Defense Chance of somewhere in the region of 6-8% but to not have one whit of Resistance Chance as evidenced by the fact that Force/Tech attacks *don't* miss while melee/ranged attacks, even with a bit of accuracy, *do* miss. Blade Storm doesn't miss because it's a Force attack (100% base accuracy) and NPCs have no Resistance chance (0% chance); combine those 2 aspects and you get a 100% hit chance without every stacking a point of accuracy. Special Melee attacks miss because they are special melee attacks (explicitly listed in your character tab as having 100% base accuracy compared to the 90% base accuracy of a basic melee attack) and NPCs have a known Defense Chance (in the 6-8% range); even including the ~4% accuracy, those 2 facts combine to get you a roughly 2-4% miss chance. Keyboard Ninja's 5% miss chance number comes from 6% defense and 1% legacy accuracy. It's not some arbitrary 5% additional accuracy for melee attacks.

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<snip>

 

<snip>

NPCs are known to have a Defense Chance of somewhere in the region of 6-8% but to not have one whit of Resistance Chance as evidenced by the fact that Force/Tech attacks *don't* miss while melee/ranged attacks, even with a bit of accuracy, *do* miss. Blade Storm doesn't miss because it's a Force attack (100% base accuracy) and NPCs have no Resistance chance (0% chance); combine those 2 aspects and you get a 100% hit chance without every stacking a point of accuracy. Special Melee attacks miss because they are special melee attacks (explicitly listed in your character tab as having 100% base accuracy compared to the 90% base accuracy of a basic melee attack) and NPCs have a known Defense Chance (in the 6-8% range); even including the ~4% accuracy, those 2 facts combine to get you a roughly 2-4% miss chance. Keyboard Ninja's 5% miss chance number comes from 6% defense and 1% legacy accuracy. It's not some arbitrary 5% additional accuracy for melee attacks.

 

So just wanted to touch on this bit.

 

At least at the raid boss level, it is in fact 10% Defense chance.

 

Easy to test on the dummy, and the overall Accuracy numbers on dummy do align for the most part with actual content ("for the most part" to account for margin of error).

 

There was also a thread on mmo-mechanics (which I am still looking for, I'm having one of those insufficient-coffee-intake moments and my memory refuses to cooperate) which lend significant additional credence to a 10% chance instead of 6-8%.

 

That being said, it doesn't directly change the discussion at hand here. I don't have a Juggy/Guardian at cap or a basis of empirical data (and anecdotal evidence based on personal performance) that would lead me to suggest a particular "ideal" Accuracy value.

 

What I do feel comfortable saying, though, is that capping Accuracy requires significant investment in Accuracy rating, and I do not see any reason why that investment is worth making for Juggy/Guardian, knowing the cost in mitigation pool to achieve that target.

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First off, special melee attacks don't have some arbitrary 5% bonus to their accuracy.. It's a specifically listed 10% higher base hit chance. The reason there is a difference between Resistance Chance (applied to Force/Tech attacks) and Defense Chance (applied to melee/ranged attacks).

 

Once again, there is a *difference* between Defense Chance and Resistance Chance; having one does not equate to the other. NPCs are known to have a Defense Chance of somewhere in the region of 6-8% but to not have one whit of Resistance Chance as evidenced by the fact that Force/Tech attacks *don't* miss while melee/ranged attacks, even with a bit of accuracy, *do* miss. Blade Storm doesn't miss because it's a Force attack (100% base accuracy) and NPCs have no Resistance chance (0% chance); combine those 2 aspects and you get a 100% hit chance without every stacking a point of accuracy. Special Melee attacks miss because they are special melee attacks (explicitly listed in your character tab as having 100% base accuracy compared to the 90% base accuracy of a basic melee attack) and NPCs have a known Defense Chance (in the 6-8% range); even including the ~4% accuracy, those 2 facts combine to get you a roughly 2-4% miss chance. Keyboard Ninja's 5% miss chance number comes from 6% defense and 1% legacy accuracy. It's not some arbitrary 5% additional accuracy for melee attacks.

 

In terms of the 5% boost on special attacks, here is exactly what KeyboardNinja wrote.

 

Note: Double Strike and Spinning Strike are both "special attacks". Among other things, this means that they get a bonus 5% accuracy boost. This is why they have 96% accuracy overall.

 

Mechanically, 5% accuracy boost and 5% defence chance is the same as 10% accuracy boost and 10% defence chance. Regardless, the point remains that close to 50% of my damage as a Guardian is subject to missing. Admitted its *ONLY* 42% of the damage once I'm into the 'normal rotation' phase but that is still quite high. 4 of my 7 highest damage/threat attacks are all subject to accuracy.

 

Again, I am not saying accuracy is good (nor needed) for a tank. I was saying that accuracy is a good way to increase threat if you are having trouble as a Guardian.

 

EDIT: Perhaps I should just have worded it differently at the start. If you need more threat as a Guardian: make sure you put points into accuracy before you bother adding points to other DPS stats. Is that a more agreeable point?

Edited by grallmate
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