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Juggernaut Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Juggernaut Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback
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DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
07.05.2019 , 10:56 PM | #21
Finally Juggs get their well deserved buffs... Can't wait 6.0 for PVP. Strong Mara, strong Jugg. Can't even ask for more.

Bioware please be careful with the self heals... they can make a class very OP in PVP.

PS: A mara will never beat a DPS Jugg 1v1 in 6.0... Impossible. No dps buffs can counter heals to full in PVP.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
07.05.2019 , 11:03 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by DzastinBiberi View Post
If you think this is op, wait until they drop tacticals for Mercs.
Mass electronet every 20 seconds and heal to full entire team once every 1 minute...

EmperorRus's Avatar


EmperorRus
07.06.2019 , 12:11 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Mass electronet every 20 seconds
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Sandrosw's Avatar


Sandrosw
07.06.2019 , 12:58 AM | #24
I would like to see the abilities, sets and tacticals on PTS as they are presented now, *before* making any nerfs and buffs to them. What looks good on paper can prove to be no-so-good in game and vice versa. Things that lower cooldown of other skill that is used in rotation have a potential to actually break rotation and result in dps loss. Things that need one skill with long cooldown used while another skill with long cooldown has effect will effectively prevent the first skill to be used without second, which can actually make class worse (here Backhand during Invincible - which will prevent jugg using this stun for a long time before popping his dcd, and then he might face whitebarred opponent in pvp... something similar can be said about Force Speed in the SI thread, where lot of people did not like the idea of having it used in rotation and making it not available when it is actually needed).
On paper those look stronger than Sorc ones, however the sorc ones seemed to involve the new sorc ability much more, so if the new ability is strong, they can actually be very good.. who knows without PTS testing
Darth Marr shall rise again.

ultimarb's Avatar


ultimarb
07.06.2019 , 01:54 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
We dont know what other classes are going to offer tho. When we see other classes we may not beleive its fotm at all.
we dont need to wait to see the tactical items abd set boni for the other classes. the direction those "perks" are going are just wrong. there are too many slows and roots already in the game. in pvp you're 80% of the time hindered by any of those effects.
on some server you have already a class stacking problem. the inidating roar accuracy is a joke as the grit teeth one is.

i dont know why people are voting for some super spectacular stuff....the time to kill is already far to long in this game and it will be even longer in 6.0 and this is the truth for every class except powertechs. so all those damage reduction slow, root, accuracy debuff, and stun immunity stuff is a bad decision.


and those "perks" were promoted with "play your way"...this goal isnt achieved by making abilities which are already ingame more powerfull.
the sorc perks for there aoe heal which changes from more singletarget heal or more multi target heal change the way to play...or by changing an ability to do dot instead of direct damage.
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ctprock's Avatar


ctprock
07.06.2019 , 02:56 AM | #26
No point in getting mad over grit teeth. Mercs and Commandos will probably get something 10 times as busted that makes grit teeth look like child's play. We all know Charles Boyd won't let his precious commandos and mercs go without something game breaking.
hell yea. GM of <Bioware Hates Powertechs>

omaan's Avatar


omaan
07.06.2019 , 03:36 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

[*]Grit Teeth - Taking damage while Endure Pain is active reduces the cooldown of Enraged Defense by 10 seconds per hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds.


Let us know your thoughts! Here are the types of feedback we are looking for. XX seems too strong or too weak. XX Set Bonus combined with XX Tactical seems too strong or too weak. I wish there was a Set Bonus or Tactical that had a specific effect or modified a specific ability not listed. Be as specific as possible in your feedback.

-eric
for solo ranked Being able for a jugg who can guard others, spam taunts to save their team mates to regen his hp two times during the fight is way TOO OVERPOWERED. In this case you need either to nerf other juggs defenses, take all taunts and guard from dps jugg or remove this new tactic item (grit teeth) at all. How do you espect enemy team to kill enemy dps when jugg guards him, spam taunts and do other things to save his team mate but if you go jugg he will just heal himself to full hp?? Way too powerful to be able to heal two times to full hp for a class with taunts and guard.

-_Richtus_-'s Avatar


-_Richtus_-
07.06.2019 , 08:54 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,
  • Retaliator - Taking damage during Endure Pain grants Retaliator stacks, increasing the damage of your next Retaliation by 10% per stack.
  • Strengthening Scream - Threatening Scream increases your damage reduction by 5% for each enemy you hit. This effect lasts 10 seconds.
If Endure Pain would be a really useful dcd, like its CD suggests and not the last resort + medipack stuff it is now (if solo) or it would direct the damage I take to that time limited health and not to my actual health maybe that bonus could be really useful....
Otherwise, it is only useful if you can proc retaliation willingly (immortal or rage) and even then only if the bonus has a really high stack limit and no internal proc cd for a last resort chunk of dmg...
Well Strengthening Scream with 5% dmg reduction can be good in a 8vs8 but in a 1vs1 ?... why not give it a bigger number but cap it after x%?
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Keep Away - Activating Saber Ward finishes the cooldown of Force Push.
  • Grit Teeth - Taking damage while Endure Pain is active reduces the cooldown of Enraged Defense by 10 seconds per hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds.
Keep away is a really weak tactical. Could be baseline in saber ward. What is build defining with this?
Grit Teeth sounds good, it adds another function to the juggernaut where you just can stop hitting him or cc him like with ED or EP and you will be fine, and he has no benefit. And after EP he is dead anyways (if solo)- but in a grp fight it can be really strong. In regs or against dots or for tanks it is fantastic. If I see what op stuff mara gets I think...that stuff is ok.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Vengeance
  • Bloody Vengeance - When a bleed tick critically hits, it reduces the cooldown of Vengeful Slam by one second.
  • Payback - Retaliation finishes the cooldown of Hew and allows it to be usable on a target with any health level, it also causes your next Hew to enable Retaliation. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.
  • Crimson Slash - Vicious Slash refreshes the duration of Force Scream and Impale's bleeds on the target.
So I can choose between a vengeful slam with almost zero cd for dot spread and constant aoe from hell or I can refresh two of my dots which deal almost no dmg and have a ~ 2/3 uptime already? That's not a choice.... The later seems weak.
So it just ends with vengeful slam spam all fight long .
Crimson Slash: If it functions so that my hew resets retaliation and retaliation resets my hew than it's ok. If I have to wait till my retaliation procs to use this loop than not. But furthermore why concentrate all things in vengeance on hew? We already can proc hew after jump and with dots and ravage...we don't need another proc...cause worst case they interfere with each other.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Rage
The current plan is that these will be mirrored to the Fury options we listed for the Marauder. The team is exploring adding some unique ones for Rage as well.
So that implies the gap between rage jugg and fury mara stays almost the same....? But mara can now use the new set to get a lesser version from our vengeance defining cc immunity jump with fury! - to their already 6sec build-in cc immunity with fury that juggs don't have ...?!

I was really exited for "build defining" things. But I mostly see some highly unbalanced features or gimmicks and most of them donīt give a real tough choice between them cause some of them are so underwhelming and some are really strong.
And then there is the gap between classes:
I mean just compare sorc things with mara...
They need to open the pts with all this unlocked to test them together and against other classes.

Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Finally Juggs get their well deserved buffs... Can't wait 6.0 for PVP. Strong Mara, strong Jugg. Can't even ask for more.

Bioware please be careful with the self heals... they can make a class very OP in PVP.

PS: A mara will never beat a DPS Jugg 1v1 in 6.0... Impossible. No dps buffs can counter heals to full in PVP.
Why? They have a tactical which gives them a reset on force camouflage. So they just stealth out and you get zero heal procs from ED and EP also never procs. And if that isn't enough their sprint and intimidating roar are enough to counter all your "pls hit me" dcds. Furthermore, with the new warrior set they can have cc immunity for almost the whole fight (in fury). So 1vs1 vs. a non-dot mara it's not really that OP. Sure in regs and for tanks its really fantastic.
But if you look at the mara things- juggs need something really strong either.

I agree the sorc tacticals are on a much lower level than mara and jugg, that's for sure. Letīs wait till we see the game breaking merc stuff .

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
07.07.2019 , 03:10 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Set Bonuses
  • Strengthening Scream - Threatening Scream increases your damage reduction by 5% for each enemy you hit. This effect lasts 10 seconds.
This looks pretty good

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Tactical Items
  • Grit Teeth - Taking damage while Endure Pain is active reduces the cooldown of Enraged Defense by 10 seconds per hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds.
This looks overpowered as hell. basically, Endure Pain reset CD on Enraged Defense, and can potentially still be active when that happens. So that is basically two extra full health bars ever 60 seconds (first regular HP, hit ED, full, hit Endure (full at 130%), lose HP, hit another ED, full). Juggs can usually survive 60 seconds just fine, especially with something like the Threatening Scream set bonus.

However, I like the idea of it, but it needs some fine tuning, maybe make it occur only once per 6-10 seconds, instead of 2 (meaning it would not reset full CD on Enraged Defense)

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Immortal
  • Crushing Defense - Crushing Blow generates Crushing Defense stacks for every enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction per stack for 10 seconds.
  • Indomitable - Using Backhand while Invincible extends the duration of Invincible by 5 seconds.
  • Retaliating Defense - Retaliation consumes Aegis Assault's damage reduction and grants Retaliating Defense, increasing damage reduction by 5% for 20 seconds.
These look pretty good, although the Backhand one seems a bit like the proverbial redheaded step child.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Vengeance
  • Bloody Vengeance - When a bleed tick critically hits, it reduces the cooldown of Vengeful Slam by one second.
  • Payback - Retaliation finishes the cooldown of Hew and allows it to be usable on a target with any health level, it also causes your next Hew to enable Retaliation. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.
  • Crimson Slash - Vicious Slash refreshes the duration of Force Scream and Impale's bleeds on the target.
Looks interesting.
RE: Bloody Vengenace, not sure how frequent bleed crits are, but seems like in a middle sized group group where you have spread your bleed, this would enable essentially endless Slam (which could probably be fun, but could cause some imbalance). Maybe add "can occur only every 2 seconds", or something to it?



Note, I do not really play much of a Jugg/Guardian (or Knight in general, not my favorite story/character), so these are just some observations from a casual player of this class.

Also, this really needs to be tested on PTS to crunch the numbers properly, any word on when that might happen? IIRC, the original target was during June?
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Delani's Avatar


Delani
07.07.2019 , 02:24 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
This looks pretty good



This looks overpowered as hell. basically, Endure Pain reset CD on Enraged Defense, and can potentially still be active when that happens. So that is basically two extra full health bars ever 60 seconds (first regular HP, hit ED, full, hit Endure (full at 130%), lose HP, hit another ED, full). Juggs can usually survive 60 seconds just fine, especially with something like the Threatening Scream set bonus.

However, I like the idea of it, but it needs some fine tuning, maybe make it occur only once per 6-10 seconds, instead of 2 (meaning it would not reset full CD on Enraged Defense)



These look pretty good, although the Backhand one seems a bit like the proverbial redheaded step child.



Looks interesting.
RE: Bloody Vengenace, not sure how frequent bleed crits are, but seems like in a middle sized group group where you have spread your bleed, this would enable essentially endless Slam (which could probably be fun, but could cause some imbalance). Maybe add "can occur only every 2 seconds", or something to it?



Note, I do not really play much of a Jugg/Guardian (or Knight in general, not my favorite story/character), so these are just some observations from a casual player of this class.

Also, this really needs to be tested on PTS to crunch the numbers properly, any word on when that might happen? IIRC, the original target was during June?
I dont think GRIT TEETH is OP at all. I do however think that it moves DPS juggs up the chart. DPS juggs is now very viable. But they should reconsider changing it for tanks.