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Stuns, Roots, and Resolve

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Stuns, Roots, and Resolve

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
01.28.2013 , 05:27 PM | #1
So, there is constant debate on how resolve should work in relation to stuns and roots. Instead of having a thread compiled of OMG STUNZ ARE OOOPPPPP paired against SHUT UP NOOBZ, I'd actually like to see a constructive debate (probably won't happen) as to what changes you would like to see with the current resolve system and why, or why you think everything should stay as-is.


Personally, I think the current resolve system is fine, apart from the stun bubbles giving the appropriate resolve for a mez (this needs to be fixed).

As for roots and snares - no, I don't think they should BUILD resolve, but once a person is white-barred, they should be immune to those effects as well. Once a person is white-barred and use their CC breaker, it usually isn't so they can attack their enemy more, it is usually an escape mechanic so they can get out of the fight, as they are probably low on health after being CC'd to that extent. Being continuously rooted in place after using a CC breaker seems to defeat this purpose, in my opinion.

CorbinCrawford's Avatar


CorbinCrawford
01.28.2013 , 07:40 PM | #2
I partially agree. My own opinion is that when white barred the >next direct damage attack< should free you from your stun/root. This is because 1v1 it is frustrating to have an opponent get 4 free seconds to beat on you - but because so many classes get a 4s stun odds are once your turn is up you will stun your opponent and have your 4 free seconds of mayhem. Back and forth, fight after fight, rotation rotation.

If CC was to break on the next direct damage when white barred (not including DoTs), then choices will be made, long casts or heals used. I believe it would make people fight differently, as certainly mashing keys just because you have 4 free seconds is out of the picture. So as a Scrapper I would save my CC for a second BB when it is off cooldown, or to run away if things go south. I wouldn't go SF, BW, BB, Kick, etc. This would stop the 'stunlocking' (and perhaps people would stop unsubbing !ZING!).

To facilitate this though resolve would need to not diminish, which again I think is fair. On one hand it is clever to wait X-seconds before using a second CC to get them at 990/1000 resolve, but if resolve didn't diminish and a second attack would white bar them I believe again fights (1v1) would become more tactical. As for white bar diminishing, I think it is fair to say it goes down too quickly (and more often than not goes down when you're in the med bar or on a speeder back into the fight).

In the zergfest that is the other 95% of PVP I think this change would benefit everyone, because lets face it this is where the real stunlocking happens. You are the ball carrier, you're stunned, so many people beating on you, dead. You may pass or not, but you're dead. Back in the med bay with 4 bars. So 4-6 seconds stunned unable to move, and now 10+ seconds running into a forcefield to get out ASAP. Not fun.

Even if CC broke on the next direct damage attack, in the zerg fest you'd probably still die, but at least you would not be stunned when dying so in huttball you can throw the ball for example. Not having to type "Sorry, stunned and died" More teamwork, great! Promote that, don't promote senseless stun tossing as call it teamwork because everyone can stun, but not everyone can stun properly (ie at the opportune times)

As for snares/roots, I think they need a separate resolve bar. They are needed (Scrapper to get close for example), but a second bar should fill perhaps and once filled, like white bar resolve, make you immune to roots/snares.

Then again, Bioware could simply just revamp the class abilities in PVP and remove 50-75% of the unnecessary mezzes/snares/stuns to begin with... I'm looking at you warriors!

Boyana's Avatar


Boyana
01.28.2013 , 08:19 PM | #3
I have many ideas but not sure how would they work if ever implemented.

My first idea is "root immunity".
The problem starts (for me) when 3 or more warrior chain their roots. It would be nice that the root of a second warrior, who leaped, lasts only for the half of it. The root of a third would not work at all. I do remember my friend not being able to move 5 feet for 30-40 seconds.

So, my second idea was to increase HP or defense. With more HP people would last longer and would not be dying during 2 stuns. Same goes with more defense BUT that would require rework of damage and healing done, so I am guessing it is not an easy path.

Boyana's Avatar


Boyana
01.28.2013 , 08:23 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by CorbinCrawford View Post
I partially agree. My own opinion is that when white barred the >next direct damage attack< should free you from your stun/root. This is because 1v1 it is frustrating to have an opponent get 4 free seconds to beat on you - but because so many classes get a 4s stun odds are once your turn is up you will stun your opponent and have your 4 free seconds of mayhem. Back and forth, fight after fight, rotation rotation.

If CC was to break on the next direct damage when white barred (not including DoTs), then choices will be made, long casts or heals used. I believe it would make people fight differently, as certainly mashing keys just because you have 4 free seconds is out of the picture. So as a Scrapper I would save my CC for a second BB when it is off cooldown, or to run away if things go south. I wouldn't go SF, BW, BB, Kick, etc. This would stop the 'stunlocking' (and perhaps people would stop unsubbing !ZING!).

To facilitate this though resolve would need to not diminish, which again I think is fair. On one hand it is clever to wait X-seconds before using a second CC to get them at 990/1000 resolve, but if resolve didn't diminish and a second attack would white bar them I believe again fights (1v1) would become more tactical. As for white bar diminishing, I think it is fair to say it goes down too quickly (and more often than not goes down when you're in the med bar or on a speeder back into the fight).

In the zergfest that is the other 95% of PVP I think this change would benefit everyone, because lets face it this is where the real stunlocking happens. You are the ball carrier, you're stunned, so many people beating on you, dead. You may pass or not, but you're dead. Back in the med bay with 4 bars. So 4-6 seconds stunned unable to move, and now 10+ seconds running into a forcefield to get out ASAP. Not fun.

Even if CC broke on the next direct damage attack, in the zerg fest you'd probably still die, but at least you would not be stunned when dying so in huttball you can throw the ball for example. Not having to type "Sorry, stunned and died" More teamwork, great! Promote that, don't promote senseless stun tossing as call it teamwork because everyone can stun, but not everyone can stun properly (ie at the opportune times)

As for snares/roots, I think they need a separate resolve bar. They are needed (Scrapper to get close for example), but a second bar should fill perhaps and once filled, like white bar resolve, make you immune to roots/snares.

Then again, Bioware could simply just revamp the class abilities in PVP and remove 50-75% of the unnecessary mezzes/snares/stuns to begin with... I'm looking at you warriors!
Ohhhh, I agree, especially with the bold part!

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.28.2013 , 11:31 PM | #5
try wearing light armor, having no defensive cooldowns and they tell me its fine

ive died in one 4 sec stun with 2 geared dps on me... 4s ttk is ridic.. at least let me run for my life as it happens
NIHIL

THE BASTION

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
01.29.2013 , 12:32 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
try wearing light armor, having no defensive cooldowns and they tell me its fine

ive died in one 4 sec stun with 2 geared dps on me... 4s ttk is ridic.. at least let me run for my life as it happens
And what change do you propose?

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
01.29.2013 , 12:46 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
try wearing light armor, having no defensive cooldowns and they tell me its fine

ive died in one 4 sec stun with 2 geared dps on me... 4s ttk is ridic.. at least let me run for my life as it happens
you know...the same is true for medium armor (scrapper). of course, there's also medium armor sentinel, which gets his 4 additional seconds of life. I mean...combat stealth is great, but I'm a burst class. I have to use that combat stealth as an offensive tool. it's not an escape if my dps is to be worth a damn.
Krack

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.29.2013 , 02:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Kontraz View Post
And what change do you propose?
well aside form nerfing the hell out of pt,s juggs, and mara's..

we need to remember that this broken resolve system affects the squishiest class the worst.

simple logic implies during the time stunned and not defending ones self, a sorc takes more dmg than any other class, in addition we have no defensive cooldown to pop after or preemptively

if our burst is going to remain that far behind every other popular dps build then we should at least have a share in a defensive cooldown. and with that chumps are asking for a bubble stun nerf

resolve itself is an easy fix. the problem with it is simple.. that on the way to your resolve bar filling you receive 100% of the length of each cc affect you're hit with, and then after its full (which usually you will be in the graveyard by then) you finally become immune

wow the greatest mmo franchise ever had it right with DR, Rift had a very strict DR system which was 1 full length cc of any sort, next would be half length, then ur immune

with swtor the resolve bar % of being full should be relative to the DR on incoming cc

for example, if my resolve bar is 25% full than incoming cc should be only 75% in normal length
if my resolve is 50% full then incoming cc should be only 50% in length etc

therefor on your way to being immune the cc you recieve will be shorter and shorter in length

with current inbalance and premade vs pug, warzones can be a brutal and not fun experience. At least having control of you character is the first step in remedying the situation
NIHIL

THE BASTION

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
01.29.2013 , 07:42 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
well aside form nerfing the hell out of pt,s juggs, and mara's..

we need to remember that this broken resolve system affects the squishiest class the worst.

simple logic implies during the time stunned and not defending ones self, a sorc takes more dmg than any other class, in addition we have no defensive cooldown to pop after or preemptively

if our burst is going to remain that far behind every other popular dps build then we should at least have a share in a defensive cooldown. and with that chumps are asking for a bubble stun nerf

resolve itself is an easy fix. the problem with it is simple.. that on the way to your resolve bar filling you receive 100% of the length of each cc affect you're hit with, and then after its full (which usually you will be in the graveyard by then) you finally become immune

wow the greatest mmo franchise ever had it right with DR, Rift had a very strict DR system which was 1 full length cc of any sort, next would be half length, then ur immune

with swtor the resolve bar % of being full should be relative to the DR on incoming cc

for example, if my resolve bar is 25% full than incoming cc should be only 75% in normal length
if my resolve is 50% full then incoming cc should be only 50% in length etc

therefor on your way to being immune the cc you recieve will be shorter and shorter in length

with current inbalance and premade vs pug, warzones can be a brutal and not fun experience. At least having control of you character is the first step in remedying the situation
I'm going to ignore your cries for nerfing classes - not due to disagreement, but because it is entirely off-topic

as for your suggestion of halfing the duration? The problem herein lies with this being an objective-based game. Yes, your suggested build seems great for 1v1 or even straight up deathmatch scenerios, but when capturing points largely relies on the ability to CC an opponent at an appropriate time, a mez lasting only 2 seconds is now worthless.

Exothermix's Avatar


Exothermix
01.29.2013 , 07:59 AM | #10
Remove current system completely and replace with:

Any root/slow = 30 secs immunity to further root/slows

Any mez/stun = 30 sec immunity to further mez/stuns

Adjust time of all classes CC (stuns/mezs/roots/slows) accordingly.
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