Current skilled juggs are not dying at all with this set bonus.

prove this statement. i have serious doubts.

I'll accept the argument about unbalancing tanks. I'll accept deleting the set because i really don't give a crap any more. I have just about 0 intention of coming to swtor pvp again.

But I have serious doubts. Please show me this mysterious OPness of dps juggie who never dies.

The game loses its fun when you get 2-3 force bounds from dps specs in ranked and around 15 force bounds in regs from varietyof sentinels/marauder, dps juggernauts/guardians/tank guardians and juggernauts. I mean getting this from tanks only is ok but when A DPS SPEC CAN SAVE LIVES WHILE DOING BIG DPS it's not OK. this just screws the game for anyone who isn't jedi knight or sith

Any mara or dps jugg that wears this set in regs is absolutely crazy. Wearing that over the furious set is a MASSIVE dps loss in a mode where you're not focus fired nearly as often and live significantly longer in.

People forget that FB or any other defensive set or tactical is a trade off to a DPS one.

Juggs do not have a DPS problem, they do enough damage.

The problem with them is that they do not have that escape ability which can save them in critical focused moments during SR games. So defensive wise its is a crappy class.

Jugg Defences are similar to Mercs, but weaker and do not have heals, net, and last but not least are a melee class.

Jugg reflect is a joke compared to Mercs for example, and the heal2full ability gets you down faster u went up.

What about if they changed Force Bound to apply the debuff after being affected by Awe instead of after it ending?

If you sit through the Awe, you're not doing any damage to Jugg anyway but suffer zero accuracy loss upon waking.

If it gets broken early from damage, now you have the debuff for whatever remainder of time, still less damage to Jugg.

If you white-bar from Awe and break, now you have the debuff for whatever remainder of time, still less damage to Jugg.

In it's current iteration, the recipient has no control of the debuff outside of not getting Awed.

With the change, you can either wait out the CC and come out swinging or break and suffer the consequences.

#playerchoice

What about if they changed Force Bound to apply the debuff after being affected by Awe instead of after it ending?

 

If you sit through the Awe, you're not doing any damage to Jugg anyway but suffer zero accuracy loss upon waking.

If it gets broken early from damage, now you have the debuff for whatever remainder of time, still less damage to Jugg.

If you white-bar from Awe and break, now you have the debuff for whatever remainder of time, still less damage to Jugg.

 

In it's current iteration, the recipient has no control of the debuff outside of not getting Awed.

With the change, you can either wait out the CC and come out swinging or break and suffer the consequences.

 

#playerchoice

That's a pretty good idea, but does it resolve the issue of multiple knights/warriors in a group being able to stagger FB effects?

That's a pretty good idea, but does it resolve the issue of multiple knights/warriors in a group being able to stagger FB effects?

Tbh there are many ways devs can stop force bound domination.

1. Make so that force bound debuff works only if affected targets hit the guy who used it. With this juggs can use fb only to save themselves instead of ruining out all enemy dps and stuns for 9 seconds even if dps jugg isn't focused

2. restrict fb set bonus only for tanks so that marauders/sentinels and dps juggs/guardians could not save their team mates as they are tanks

3. Nerf marauder and dps jugg dps so that using force bound would actually make their dps pretty low due to lack of dps set bonus. Currently even if jugg dps or marauder are using fb set bonus they still do nearly 8k dps per second on arenas because other dps specs (operatives, sorcs, mercs etc) were nerfed after the last class balance changes while dps juggs were buffed and marauders weren't touched

There should be no reasoning with keeping force bound in the game. We cannot allow more busted things like these to be added.

Accuracy is already extremely unbalanced for yellow & white damage.

It honestly needs a rework but force bound is a more pressing matter.

6 second cc, force bound debuff, obfuscate, then again 6 sec. cc, force bound then again obfuscate - match is over. HAHA, nice meme game you can just remove all dps classes except jedi knight/sith warrior

I think you should be more specific with obfuscate and say "sentinel/marauder". Remove force bound all you want, i really couldn't care less. But obfuscate is specific to sentinels.

Watched a live interview with musco and Schmitt. They are working on changes to how guard works before touching force bound. That will only affect Juggs and have zero affect on Maras. So I guess they don’t see an issue with maras using it. I take it from what they said they think it’s only OP because players are guard swapping.

At least that’s how I heard it. Maybe watch it and see if I got that right.

Watched a live interview with musco and Schmitt. They are working on changes to how guard works before touching force bound. That will only affect Juggs and have zero affect on Maras. So I guess they don’t see an issue with maras using it. I take it from what they said they think it’s only OP because players are guard swapping.

 

At least that’s how I heard it. Maybe watch it and see if I got that right.

This is bw we're talking about. They're probably so incompetent they just assume that since the set is listed as being for juggies, they don't have to balance around maras using it.

This is bw we're talking about. They're probably so incompetent they just assume that since the set is listed as being for juggies, they don't have to balance around maras using it.

It’s an easy fix. Just lock it for Juggs to wear.

It’s an easy fix. Just lock it for Juggs to wear.

You have to use BW logic, not you and I logic.

BW logic: we intended it for juggies, so they're the only ones using it right?! So when something is op, we only have to worry about stuff that juggies can do.

This is bw we're talking about. They're probably so incompetent they just assume that since the set is listed as being for juggies, they don't have to balance around maras using it.

With respect, have you played a Sentinel in ranked? Their ability to survive depends on three things: Defel Spliced Genes, Concentration/Fury spec, and Force Bound. Found this out through some humiliating experience. Being one of the worst Sentinels in the game (that PvPs) certainly does not lend credence to what I am going on about...but I have definitely watched some of the best and, more importantly, I have listened to some of the best. Force Bound is almost required to be viable in ranked. In regs, it is not needed, I'd even suggest that it is a detriment. Balancing around that would be disastrous for Sentinels/Marauders unless by eliminating the set the developers were forced to buff Sentinel survivability baseline.

I don't see that happening.

It might be worth noting that I do not have Force Bound and I have no intention of acquiring a set because: A) prohibitively expensive, and B) I expect them to nerf it at some point making point "A" even more of a gate. I may not be cut out for ranked, but I don't want my Sentinel's baseline nerfed.

That's really where I'm coming from.

Force Bound is worthless. It hinders dps output and does not extend ranked life expectancy, for a dps jugg/guardian, even with grit. Your best bet, in ranked, is to go straight up dps (descent + tact) and hope that your team is willing to help you withstand the onslaught that will ensue. Just like a pt or van.

I happen to agree, but as someone who never played with force bound, my opinion based on having simply read about it is rather worthless.

With respect, have you played a Sentinel in ranked? Their ability to survive depends on three things: Defel Spliced Genes, Concentration/Fury spec, and Force Bound.

Actually yes, I have. Before the force bound set was a thing mind you, but with the force camo reducing tactical and conc spec. Still infinitely better than dps guardian. Remarkably, i never got vote kicked at match start on a conc sent. I did 3 times on a vigi guardian. My statistically meaningless sample size means im not going to go into this further.

The point i was making, I grant obnoxiously, is if force bound was supposed to be a juggernaut thing, much like the conc sent one i use for pve on a focus guardian is supposed to be for sents, maybe BW should consider making items intended only for certain specs or classes work only on those certain specs or classes.

Conc sents were in a better place than focus or vigi guardians before force bound and after grit teeth, which was the last venture I had into ranked.

It might be worth noting that I do not have Force Bound and I have no intention of acquiring a set because: A) prohibitively expensive, and B) I expect them to nerf it at some point making point "A" even more of a gate. I may not be cut out for ranked, but I don't want my Sentinel's baseline nerfed.

Finally to quote myself from earlier this very thread:

to copy my opinion from a thread in the pvp section:

my take on this set is:

 

1. I can't afford it anyway. (Sitting at 50 mill)

2. I have no desire to attempt ranked (again), so I feel perfectly justified in running descent

3. I have no desire to farm up yet another set of BiS mods

4. This is their idea of fixing guardian dps in pvp?

5. I have serious doubts this takes the class from like the bottom of solo ranked to OP as some people here are claiming.

6. the concept bothers me. If you have a gear vendor, use it. Kai can still exist as a discount dealer.

7. The avengers game is getting close and my time with swtor might be nearing an (at least temporary) end, so i see little reason to invest in the set.

8. Finally, based on the level of outrage, there is some probability of the set being adjusted at some point, so why risk going broke for nothing?

I happen to agree, but as someone who never played with force bound, my opinion based on having simply read about it is rather worthless.

 

 

Actually yes, I have. Before the force bound set was a thing mind you, but with the force camo reducing tactical and conc spec. Still infinitely better than dps guardian. Remarkably, i never got vote kicked at match start on a conc sent. I did 3 times on a vigi guardian. My statistically meaningless sample size means im not going to go into this further.

 

The point i was making, I grant obnoxiously, is if force bound was supposed to be a juggernaut thing, much like the conc sent one i use for pve on a focus guardian is supposed to be for sents, maybe BW should consider making items intended only for certain specs or classes work only on those certain specs or classes.

 

Conc sents were in a better place than focus or vigi guardians before force bound and after grit teeth, which was the last venture I had into ranked.

 

Finally to quote myself from earlier this very thread:

Ah, yes. I had forgotten that post. I know I read it earlier this month.

Your points are well taken and more than fair. You're right, the developers should make equipment more class and spec specific.

I happen to agree, but as someone who never played with force bound, my opinion based on having simply read about it is rather worthless:

I have worked with just about every gear set and, in the end, always comeback to descent and hemophilic slash for vig. Stack force sensitivity and and periodic intensity and u can pump some serious dmg. DPS Juggs/Guardians just are what they are right now. I have accepted it and have moved on.

With respect, have you played a Sentinel in ranked? Their ability to survive depends on three things: Defel Spliced Genes, Concentration/Fury spec, and Force Bound. Found this out through some humiliating experience. Being one of the worst Sentinels in the game (that PvPs) certainly does not lend credence to what I am going on about...but I have definitely watched some of the best and, more importantly, I have listened to some of the best. Force Bound is almost required to be viable in ranked. In regs, it is not needed, I'd even suggest that it is a detriment. Balancing around that would be disastrous for Sentinels/Marauders unless by eliminating the set the developers were forced to buff Sentinel survivability baseline.

 

I don't see that happening.

 

It might be worth noting that I do not have Force Bound and I have no intention of acquiring a set because: A) prohibitively expensive, and B) I expect them to nerf it at some point making point "A" even more of a gate. I may not be cut out for ranked, but I don't want my Sentinel's baseline nerfed.

 

That's really where I'm coming from.

I have top 3 marauder and top 3 sent from season 10 solo ranked and many other gold sentinels/marauders and i can say that having FB for marauders in addition to saber ward, guarded by the force, cloak of pain and camouflages we can reset when using predation is way too overpowered. Not only players spend tonnes of time chasing mara after all his camouflages and trying to kill him without stuns (most of the time mara can't be stunned due to vortex immunity and saber ward utility), they also have to deal with 6 sec mezz and then few seconds of 70% ability misses. This too insane for a dps spec, it is easier to kill a merc or sorc or even tank tunnel than killing marauder.

Also don't forget that marauders using fb not only to save themselves but to save their team mates. So literally they say "you can't go me but i also won't let you kill my team mate so give up, you lost". If i had force bound long back to season 10 i would not had to tryhard all season to get my top spots lol. So easy and overpowered

I have worked with just about every gear set and, in the end, always comeback to descent and hemophilic slash for vig. Stack force sensitivity and and periodic intensity and u can pump some serious dmg. DPS Juggs/Guardians just are what they are right now. I have accepted it and have moved on.

I agree with you too, as someone who tried wirh grit teeth when it came out. As often as you get a second use out of it, just run the smash monkey or slash tacticals was my conclusion then.

And yeah I've been mostly playing other games, but I still have game time left here. Not sure I'll be paying again when it runs out (not because of the state of guardians in pvp, that I can deal with, but because of the utter lack of a casual pve endgame at level 75). But at this point I paid, and don't feel like playing much, so I basically paid to complain.

I agree with you too, as someone who tried wirh grit teeth when it came out. As often as you get a second use out of it, just run the smash monkey or slash tacticals was my conclusion then.

 

And yeah I've been mostly playing other games, but I still have game time left here. Not sure I'll be paying again when it runs out (not because of the state of guardians in pvp, that I can deal with, but because of the utter lack of a casual pve endgame at level 75). But at this point I paid, and don't feel like playing much, so I basically paid to complain.

Your last comment made me laugh. I will just say this, it ok to take breaks.

I left swtor for over a year. Came back and have a new found respect for the game. I really enjoy Swtor. Yes I enjoy pvp the most, but since my return, it is not my only focus anymore. I guess what I appreciate the most about the game is that it provides players with so many options and so many different things to do. For instance, I have had 3 75's just sitting on SS waiting for another double xp event. I am now power leveling renown and valor. Yesterday, I brought a merc from 41 to lvl 51 and a scoundrel from 11 to lvl 20.

I have completed the Renown chieve "everybody knows my name" already on SF and should have it on SS by the end of the event.

I have to admit, I get so much enjoyment with the title. It makes people crazy in pvp when I have it up on a toon that everyone recognizes. It a guilty pleasure!

Point is, a break was good for me to be able to see the game for what it is. I failed to see it before I left.

If they nerf Force Bound they HAVE TO nerf Sniper's Diversion.

Force Bound affects TECH and FORCE.

Diversion affects ACCURACY.

Diversion is much much stronger and no one's talking about it.

Snipers do not need to sacrifice a bunch of DPS in trade of a little survivability like Mara/Jugg do by using the set.

If they nerf Force Bound they HAVE TO nerf Sniper's Diversion.

Force Bound affects TECH and FORCE.

Diversion affects ACCURACY.

Diversion is much much stronger and no one's talking about it.

Snipers do not need to sacrifice a bunch of DPS in trade of a little survivability like Mara/Jugg do by using the set.

While not being as strong, 45% versus 70%, you can still land things through diversion and you can also cleanse it once you've stepped out of it. I do agree however, it is silly. It should go back to being single target much like pacify/obfuscate has always been.