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PVE Operative Medic (Scoundrel) / Healing discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
PVE Operative Medic (Scoundrel) / Healing discussion

Sovjohn's Avatar


Sovjohn
01.22.2012 , 09:09 AM | #1
I would like to initiate some constructive discussion about PVE healing with Operatives / Scoundrels.

My recent feedback indicates that in PVE scenarios where the Operative is the only healer (say, hard-mode flashpoints), while the healing works out for the majority of the encounters, certain bosses which have the potential to cause large amounts of burst damage to the group make healing rather too challenging to be worth it as an Operative.

Case in point:

Kaon Under Siege, bonus boss. This is an intense encounter in all regards, but the Operative lacks, once more, the tools to mitigate (shields? burst healing?) large-scale damage to the group. No amount of HOTs in their current state could make me heal this entirely on my own, without having a bounty hunter in my group assist in certain points.

It appears that when complementing a good healer (Operations, primary healer being a Sorcerer, and me assisting him) we are doing very well, but if a group has to rely on our own healing capacity only (and do note, a well-geared group, not average level 50 players dressed in blue gear), we have some serious issues.

Thoughts?


For reference, this is a recent post I had made in a related thread:

Quote:
We've discussed IA healing with friends and guildmates - Nobody believes it's "right on". Basically, a friend set it right - In a WOW comparison, Sorcerers are akin to Priests (fair game, pretty good healers), Bodyguards are comparable to Paladins (haven't looked them up much but I think they get decent tools to play with), and Operatives are like... nerfed Druids.

I tend to agree. First and foremost, I'm not saying I'm a pro player at the moment, it's too early in the game to claim that I have mastered the energy mechanic, which is quite different than using mana. However, I've faced the problems many state on these forums.

I consider the lack of "emergency heal" one of the biggest flaws of the class, and I'm sorry but since SP is rather weak and needs TA I can't consider it an "emergency heal".

In PVP, of course one can spam probes all around forever and possibly get decent healing output in theory, I know that despite my gear being average for lv. 50 I can indeed pull 200-250k easily enough. But here's where the problems start:

In a PVP zone, 'cept the Voidstar where people tend to gather around in one or two areas, it's quite hard to actually heal a decent part of players with HoT's only. Say, you are defending a cannon in Alderaan, with 3 other players, these are the ones you can heal, and not the full 8 of the warzone. If a massive assault comes, you find yourself pulling probes and such, nanotech, that's about it.

A typical scenario, and I mean typical - A guy on my team comes close to me from another location at say 50% health. How do you help him stay alive? Cast HoT's, sure. Cast some interruptible heals like Injection, sure if you can do it and not get CC'd to death. Cast Surgical Probe? Yes, you could if you just happened to have a TA active at that second, but if you didn't, then the odds are that until you cast an Injection AND that, the guy's dead if he's focused.

The same went for certain flashpoints, btw, I've leveled up as Medic from the start and at times, in certain bosses mind you, not always, it so happened that the group was taking mass amounts of damage from a X boss. You can't top them in such cases, and of course you can top the tank and HoT the rest, but it seems that you can't mitigate burst damage at all, especially to >1 targets.

Despite the challenging mechanic of energy (hey, Bodyguard has something similar called Heat, looks like energy in reverse), it doesn't seem that you can provide reliable heals in an emergency situation as things are.

I'd like:

1) An ability to crit 100% an Injection, with CD, and a reduced energy cost (I believe Paladins in WOW had a spell called Divine Favor which did just that back then, haven't played that in years so don't know if it still exists). Alternatively, an ability to instantly cast an injection, or a variant of this type. A 2:00 cooldown would seem logical, and provide us with just that, an emergency heal of the sort. Said cooldown might also provide 1 TA instantly, making Surgical Probe another instant heal candidate.


2) Change the nice shield probe to be castable to others as well, and buff its damage mitigation perhaps. This ought to provide much flexibility and assist in PVP healing especially.

3) Rework Diagnostic Scan. It's the ability I use least of all, because it's just a "filler energy regen ability" and does nothing useful. Ideally, rework it through talents, and associate it with Kolto Probe (enhance it's effect? consume KP to provide instant heal? Something else?)

4) Last but not least - Buff Recuperative Nanotech. Seriously, a top-tier talent and a mediocre HoT? Nah - Make it provide more healing initially and less later on, would be a good buff to use it more (and a life saver in PVP scenarios as well).

I don't know - I hear all over the place that DPS Operatives are over the top, but there's not much love lost for Medics. I've had people in my guild scrapping their healing specs and turning to DPS to enjoy the class, and this should not happen period.

All in all - The major thing to deal with would be to cope with a situation where someone needs a heal quickly, and you can't guarantee a TA being up to cast Surgical Probe (even then, it's not a life-saving heal).

The minor thing to deal with is the Diagnostic Scan / shield issues.

Saella's Avatar


Saella
01.22.2012 , 12:04 PM | #2
I have post this already but i think ill post it everywhere, maybe those Developpers (monkeys) will read it


-Fix Recuperative nanotech, Add an initial healing on it 1k heal than hot, It cost so much we CAN't spam it more than twice without running low on energy... Give it a higher range... 10m is very bad... Should be 4 people but no range cap... or make it tick faster and heal for more... it heal for 400 every tick and always go to random people...

-Diagnostic scan... That should be an instant cast like the BH instant free heal...

-Kolto infusion ??? Damn.. its not in my bar since im lvl 25... Time to make this skill usefull... It cost way to much energy and 1 tactical adv/upper hand, which is ridicoulous...

Give this heal a hot after it landed... or even make it free energy but still cost 1 t.a./u.h, this way we could at least use it....

Kolto infusion is perfect this way... don't touch that...

Kolto probe is good that way too..

Give us one more heal... if we got interupted and dont have any t.a. we just jiggle until the Global Cooldown went off... and generally we die before this happen...

We should be able to use our barrier on other people not only us... and it should protect for a % of the total amount of heal of the target ...

I'm level 50 fully Columi geared and healing aren't balanced at all... The sorcerer (take it as exemple) have way more heal than us... Lets talk about their Group heal... reach every player in the effect, heal initialy for a good amount, and then overtime heal... Ok my recuperative nanotech can go to trash...
They can spam their aoe way more than us, and maybe they haven't infinite energy but i never saw a Sorcerer run out of mana... They have way to much habilities to regain it....

Instead of slapping I.a. in the face patch after patch in could be cool, to give them a candy...

Iknow that the merc is in the same boat as us... the energy system need to be fixed or bioware need to Lower energy cost....
I do good in PVE but a sorcerer can do it with better than us with both hands in the nose...

Do we need to QQ everyday to see a change ? You clearly say the last video i saw : THE PLAYERS ARE HERE TO DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT... THIS IS THEIR GAME.....

So give us a break with all the nerfed.. (we are 2 in 2 so far) and start looking at other class or give us something that might help the pills to go through...

Zidaen's Avatar


Zidaen
01.22.2012 , 03:53 PM | #3
The guy above me makes some decent points, specifically the issue is comparing aoe heals from IA to sorc/merc.

You guys have a great AOE heal for light random group damage. Sadly light or random group damage is rare and stacking+Sorc or merc aoe heal is so good.

I'd love to see your aoe get some sort of buff.

As for burst healing our op does quite well up to two bursts but then falls behind due to energy regen and blown cooldowns. He functions much better as a group healer in a long sustained fight.

Sadly I think Ops are are less suited for HM flashpoints for the majority of the bosses compared to a Sorc and especially Merc. You guys fill a good role in operations as a group healer who can top people up quickly but just cant handle consistent bursts or hard aoe and a lot of HM FPs do that.

The tank buffs a Merc gives via healing is just too good to not use one for the tanks so you probably wont have to worry about tank healing in operations. I have exceptional utility though constantly topping people off on quick random group damage hurts my force pool. Our Op manages that role without energy problems. Normally I just spec damage and let merc+op heal unless it's a heavy group damage with less movement and then you just cant beat sorc aoe+merc aoe healing stacked.

darreke's Avatar


darreke
01.22.2012 , 05:09 PM | #4
Agree on buffing colto cloud, even removing the range would help.

And a change on diagnostic scan would be nice, never bother to use it, not really viable in hard modes to waste cooldowns on it, especially on boss fights, a blastershot is better then.

Getting an extra way of restacking slow release medpeck (like a crit emergancy medpack) would be nice too, but might be overpowerd

Damukag's Avatar


Damukag
01.22.2012 , 06:21 PM | #5
Honestly I would just be happy if they decided to give us a bit of direction. Are we supposed to focus on our HoT abilities? As of right now a good portion of our output is oriented around their ability to generate 'free' TAs for us to spend on Surgical Probes, but the actual heal itself is lackluster and I'd almost always prefer casting a kolto injection (same healing but instant, faster cast, less energy, assured instant TA) instead. Why give us a HoT ability and make it the core of our playstyle if it's actually LESS efficient than our base single target heal nine times out of ten?

Either buff our HoTs and make us better raid healers in that method or fix Kolto Infusion to be a worthwhile single target cast (remove energy cost, up healing considerably, something) and make us better single target heal nukers. As it stands, we're sort of stuck between both and can do neither.
"Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of."

-Arthur Dent

Donnadarco's Avatar


Donnadarco
01.22.2012 , 06:41 PM | #6
Quote:
Either buff our HoTs and make us better raid healers in that method or fix Kolto Infusion to be a worthwhile single target cast (remove energy cost, up healing considerably, something) and make us better single target heal nukers. As it stands, we're sort of stuck between both and can do neither.
Yes this is how i feels also...Lost.

Atleast make Kolto Cload equal to "Salvation" / Revivfication. Why is Salvation Dubble the heal ? and unlimited targets ? Think 16 MAN Operations !

A SAGE CAN HEAL 12 MORE TARGETS then smuggler.... and 13 more targets for Trooper / mercs.

I dont call that fair.

Energy: 30
Heals up to 4 allies within 10 meters for 267 over 15 seconds.

VS

Force: 100
Heals all allies within 8 meters of the targeted area. Targets remaining in the area heal for an additional 581 over 10 seconds.

VS

Heat: 16
Range: 30m
Heals up to 3 allies within 8 meters of the targeted area for 95 - 206.

Why u think all nighmaremodes and hardmodes needs sages ?

Sovjohn's Avatar


Sovjohn
01.24.2012 , 09:07 PM | #7
Today, I was able to look into the numbers, pure numbers, of a friend (good geared Sorcerer) who's our main healer, and me (secondary healer, shall we call me).

Our HOT ticks were the same. Do mind that I may actually be a bit more geared than my friend, but still, the crit ticks were roughly the same.

However -
  • He was able to go to the bonus boss of Kaon Under Siege and clear it without breaking a sweat on first try, unlike me. The reason being the magical word "shield".
  • Also - On Soa (I think that's how the last boss of Eternity Vault is named), we had to do that drill where people are jumping down and take damage. I used my HOT in all cooldowns, and it helped the 4/8 targets it affected. I also popped random HOT's on the way down. However the effect the Sorcerer's HOT had when all 8 players were sitting in its AOE effect on the way down, was remarkable. You could see the entire operation frames getting their health up.

To my mind, this reinforces the concept of us not being able to shield another player and save them from damage bursts, plus, even if we are HOT healers, it seems that in PVE scenarios (read: everyone "balls up" to a spot for healing, at least ranged DPS and healers can do that) it affects more people on average than me.

I am filling my role by casting my AOE on the melee guys, but more often than not it affects 3 / 4 people because they are around the boss / whatever and are not necessarily within 10 feet of the player I cast the heal on, constantly rotating and such.

More constructive discussion is frankly encouraged!

Areoss's Avatar


Areoss
01.25.2012 , 08:00 AM | #8
Our Hot needs to go up to 8 people as a minimum...

We need to shield the targets we wish...

and some form of usefulness for the ability that shall not be named that is pulled off the toolbar.

Perhaps have something to proc to make it an instant cast free heal? like a 10% chance on HoT or something? Just to give it a bit of use but not make it over powered.
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trotsky_tor's Avatar


trotsky_tor
01.25.2012 , 01:58 PM | #9
Couple of thoughts/suggestions I've had:

- RN needs to be looked at, hard.

1. Remove the 10yd radius. It's workable as it is, but considering it already has a 4 person max, there's no reason for it to be range limited as well.

2. Have it refresh Kolto Probe on the target(s) it hits or do an initial heal based on how many stacks of KP are on the target(s)

- Kolto Infusion should be made energy-free if it's going to cost a TA. Leave the cast-time to differentiate it from Surgical Probe. Alternatively, get rid of the TA cost, and leave it as a quicker heal counterpart to Kolto Injection.

- Kolto Probe requiring only one stack would be nice, but I can live without that.

- Having no healing cooldowns and no reactive healing or shields make us really suffer when large damage goes out to more than one target. Both other healing classes have "oh crap" buttons to hit when they need.

Zinfandel's Avatar


Zinfandel
01.25.2012 , 03:26 PM | #10
Just switch the Sorcerer game developing team w/ the IA's. Should fix everything!

Really though, I mirror a lot of the fixes from the above poster.

A) Kolto Probe: 1 stack, 50% more healing or shielding, and 50% more ticks. Energy cost should be the same.

B) Infusion: I like this ability. I hear a lot of people complain about it, but it's one of the most useful heals I've used in tight situation. Though I would say the heal on this needs to be increased or a shield or Hot should follow up the effect. I'd be fine if they left this as is. It actually better than surgical probe

C) Surgical Probe: I hardly use this. It's really lacking in Heals. It's good for a quick heal to try to get some ae dmg taken care of. Keep in mine, a probe heals more than this and doesn't cost a TA, and will in-fact reward one given time. I would use this more often if it had an additional chance to crit or something. It seems like a poor-man's oh **** heal. Except you'll still be like oh **** by the time you can cast another ability.

D) Diagnostic Scan: Since they fixed ability lag a little bit, it's been easier to fit this in. They need to remove the cast time all together, and make it so i can use this when I need to move. It's really restricting right now. Though, keep in mind, you can get a tick off of it and still move, you don't have to let it finish it's cast time.

E) Nanotech: Useless right now. Only time I use it is when I feel like being lazy while clearing trash. i would say it would be more useful if it just insta healed instead of HoTing, but I'd imagine that putting you at the top of the aggro list. Instead, make it an instant group shield. Would be fine on threat, and give us an extremely useful signature move.
Energy is still a little too high for that, I'd say keep energy as is and add some more benefits or more shielding that it would heal....maybe allow the shield amount to be double the heal. Also, remove the damned range. Too many of our abilities require us to cast and not move around at all.



My usual rotation is Injection, Infusion, Probe. W/ stim on I can usually throw a Scan in between and keep up 90%+ energy. Keep in mind that your energy still regens while casting Injection. W/ Stim activated, I can toss out 1 probe, and regen the energy before my Injection finishes casting. An immediate follow up of Infusion will get me back up to 90% after the GCD finishes from Infusion. Though don't quote me on the GCDs.