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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Lodinn's Avatar


Lodinn
06.25.2020 , 01:45 PM | #9911
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
After all, pretty much all of the difficult FP bosses can be broken down into a combination of several mechanics that already have been used elsewhere in the game.
Most of the time, it's not the mechanic itself, it's the delivery. There is nothing cognitively complex about the umbara last boss, but I'd argue it is out of line because the cheese way of doing it is pretty much the only thing players are universally equipped with for dealing with that. 70-80% hp damage at random group members not coordinated with adds spawn which happens on a separate, hp percentage-related timeline feels overtuned if you don't LOS adds hard. Same-ish with Copero, add waves are interesting but there's not a clear and telegraphed way to deal with them which would scream "hey here's how we designed this" - unlike fire puddles on Stivastin and such. Same with Tython last boss where I constantly seeing groups struggling even if on the surface they get the mechanics right - it's a mix of the mechanical skill, lag issues and healing requirements which are VASTLY different from the bulk of MMFPs and... It's just punishing. If one mistake like standing in bad kills people, on average there will be problems. I wish more people got exposed to Tyrans HM+ so they'd know the importance of positioning, baiting circles and such, that's one severely lacking skill these days.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
Just as mechanics are ignored, roles are often too, a healer there that would be well able to heal the group if they don't park in damaging effects, yet the kolto stations are clicked immediately after getting a mere scratch, tank losing a boss to a DPS, doesn't matter, pop a CD and ignore it.
Oh there's a lot to unpack here. In VM, kolto stations are so good it's massively more beneficial for the group if the healer was just dpsing or, better, came on a dps spec in the first place. Largely the same goes for the tank, actually.
Then there are gear issues - sure thing, most of the time you can keep aggro as a tank but there's just no way you can do it vs a lvl75 person with set bonus, tactical, 30 VE stacks and whatnot with 100% uptime while leveling (why do these geared people run VMs in the first place?.. Beats me).

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
The rest who really would need some kind of learning experience just follow that, but without the underlying understanding and experience and then wonder why it doesn't work when they are on their own. Most likely causing toxic behaviour and blaming the rest of the group too then. (snip)

And yes, it works there too, but usually only as long there are a few old school players, experienced PvPers, HC or NIM raiders present that carry the group through.
First off, you don't need experienced people to "carry" anyone in a regular SM operation. I mean, we do it as a gig with friends where 2 actually experienced players "carry" 1-2 less experienced ones in 3-4-manning SM ops, but with 8 players you really don't need to go out of your way trying to beat enrage with a DwT and a healer while also filling the mechanics requirements somehow. Many of the relevant mechanics got removed from SM over the years, notably Kephess in TfB, the tower of Hanoi in KP (why BW?..), gate puzzle in DF and so on.

Next, toxic behavior isn't really caused by "doesn't work when they are on their own" as much as it's a trigger. The lack of education and motivation to put some effort in the group content are sure factors.
Worst of all, some of the nicest people I knew from years ago got weathered down in some 5 years of not quitting the game and are now complaining about "the average PUG" as much as the next person. They've lost the will to teach because at this point it feels more futile than ever and is met with (sometimes aggressive) negligence.
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Sarqualin's Avatar


Sarqualin
06.25.2020 , 02:21 PM | #9912
This was too funny not to share.

Kaon MM.

The healer (sage) was obviously new to the game, kept pushing trash with force wave. I then pointed out not to use it as they will die slower that way, still kept doing it. So I jokingly said he should be using force quake as it looks way cooler, unfortunately to no avail. After the "turret boss" tank (shadow) said he hopes the healer will heal more and dps less for next bosses. The Behemoth was really close, luckily we had really good dps. Now the funny part! Bonus boss. Healer couldn't keep up, he was obviously still clueless. We wiped. Healer was told only to heal. We pull, get him to like 30 %. Suddenly I notice the boss is on me and I see the tank using lampost regen. When he had enough hp, taunted it off of me and we killed the damn robot. Funniest thing I've seen in a while . We finished the last boss with just the healer dead, he released and pulled all he could on the way. We all agreed but the healer that it was really unusual run.
Not Good Enough

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
06.25.2020 , 11:39 PM | #9913
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarqualin View Post
This was too funny not to share.

Kaon MM.

The healer (sage) was obviously new to the game, kept pushing trash with force wave. I then pointed out not to use it as they will die slower that way, still kept doing it. So I jokingly said he should be using force quake as it looks way cooler, unfortunately to no avail. After the "turret boss" tank (shadow) said he hopes the healer will heal more and dps less for next bosses. The Behemoth was really close, luckily we had really good dps. Now the funny part! Bonus boss. Healer couldn't keep up, he was obviously still clueless. We wiped. Healer was told only to heal. We pull, get him to like 30 %. Suddenly I notice the boss is on me and I see the tank using lampost regen. When he had enough hp, taunted it off of me and we killed the damn robot. Funniest thing I've seen in a while . We finished the last boss with just the healer dead, he released and pulled all he could on the way. We all agreed but the healer that it was really unusual run.
Aw shucks, that sounds... not super fun! I feel like Sage is tricky to heal as even if you're an experienced player (compared to the other 2 healers). It's so weird how many people just... don't listen to advice, though.
Quote: Originally Posted by Grand Master Yoda
We are what they grow beyond. That is the burden of all masters.

LordSassafras's Avatar


LordSassafras
07.05.2020 , 07:07 AM | #9914
Last night, a Dread Palace group finder PuG. It took nearly an hour to assemble the group, which consisted of my commando, two guildies (one of who was a vanguard tank), another commando and sage (both dps), and some other randoms.

Early on, there were already some signs of tension while the group was forming - the other commando and another sage dps apparently got into a fight in their whispers. I didn't catch the whole argument, of course, but I glimpsed a few misplaced messages. On the other hand, the tank I recruited didn't know a lick of Dread Palace and was undergeared, but since it was SM, we decided to roll anyway.

The first three bosses went down fine, with the sage and commando continuing to argue mid-fight, this time out in the ops chat about someone's mother. Then at Raptus, the chaos started. The tank failed the first challenge and didn't even go through the challenge portal (our shadow DwT was the one who Raptus chased around and who did most of the "tanking." Raptus proceeds to Force Execute one of our healers out of the arena, while simultaneously wiping the floor with both the tank and two other DPS. Fortunately, we were able to push through and down the boss before a wipe occurred.

Sage then proceeded to complain that nobody rezzed them while we were regrouping. Well, I tried, but ended up falling off the map myself while trying to get line of sight. It was at this point that the tank dropped group without another word and went to do something on fleet. Simultaneously, the sage then starts complaining about not having had a chance to get the loot, to which someone else points out that they can just go back in the portal to get it. After a while of clearing trash to the Dread Council, we get a guardian tank who we finish the op with. Of course, somebody complains about the low frequency of ops-exclusive set bonuses at the end... a position that I could actually agree with, for once.