Stun lock? Really it should happen to you once and then you should learn to camp away from the node and have INC pre-typed! That is just neophyte vs veteran. Against someone who knows how to play he can't cap a node that way because by the time he makes it back to the node the stun is almost over plus you can't be stunned cause your white barred and you can leap, saber throw whatever before he caps! So now your power of stealth is rendered moot.

Way to assume i was the guard in this instance. Someone else volunteered. The point is, stealth capping is very much a thing. I have a friend that stealth capped 2 people. We'd have lost that match otherwise

Way to assume i was the guard in this instance. Someone else volunteered. The point is, stealth capping is very much a thing. I have a friend that stealth capped 2 people. We'd have lost that match otherwise

Moot point whether it was you or a ranged class now isn't it! Would it be any less effective if it was a sniper or merc or sorc? NO! Fact is they are best suited as guards because they have the range. Stealth sap capping is only effective against neophyte players/ teams that don't know any better! against an experienced skilled team it won't happen.If other team has multiple stealth plan ahead and have 2 guard if both are at least 30 meters away the stun should end and allow one attack.

Moot point whether it was you or a ranged class now isn't it! Would it be any less effective if it was a sniper or merc or sorc? NO! Fact is they are best suited as guards because they have the range. Stealth sap capping is only effective against neophyte players/ teams that don't know any better! against an experienced skilled team it won't happen.

Mercs are actually pretty terrible node guards... snipers are decent at it, stealths are honestly the best at it, but outside of that the best node guard is probably a powertech because shoulder cannons.

The point is, stealth capping is something a shadow has the potential to do that my guardian cannot do. Again, its a hit and run playstyle. Backstabby classes aren't my thing personally but assassin is obviously supposed to be a bsckstabby type class.

Mercs are actually pretty terrible node guards... snipers are decent at it, stealths are honestly the best at it, but outside of that the best node guard is probably a powertech because shoulder cannons.

 

The point is, stealth capping is something a shadow has the potential to do that my guardian cannot do. Again, its a hit and run playstyle. Backstabby classes aren't my thing personally but assassin is obviously supposed to be a bsckstabby type class.

on that we disagree hit run means being able to cloak out at will we get one on a 2 minute cool down that can be broke with AOE melee attacks & AOE DOTS if you don't have shroud of madness. When you do manage it your stuck in combat and can't heal or stun peeps so it's the most ineffectual hit and run spec ever designed.

Mercs are actually pretty terrible node guards... snipers are decent at it, stealths are honestly the best at it, but outside of that the best node guard is probably a powertech because shoulder cannons.

 

The point is, stealth capping is something a shadow has the potential to do that my guardian cannot do. Again, its a hit and run playstyle. Backstabby classes aren't my thing personally but assassin is obviously supposed to be a bsckstabby type class.

don't see how its a ranged spec! if you guard at your maximum range and get sapped the sapper has to move all the way over to the node by that time most of stun is up. as soon as it ends fire off best ranged attack .....cap.stopped. If two stealth then 2 guards both at range and opposite one another at least 10 meters apart to avoid both being sapped by operative's flash bang again it takes each sapper to much time to make it to pylon to cap it your stun is dam near over before he starts the cap. Once ends fire off you ranged attack lightning, missile's, whatever.

I have two friends who play shadows and one who plays operative, all say mercs are easier for them to sap cap. They also find a use for their stealth out basically on cooldown. So obviously its not useless. I at least admit FD has its use before i go into how to work around it.

All that said my simple point is that different classes work differently and have different advantages. I still think that anyone who believes guardian is in the same category as merc or sniper, especially one who fails to mention concentration sentinels, is missing the very nature of team play. 1v1 in this game is a sideshow at best. I admit sins probably arent the greatest in arenas. But then neither are guardians. Snipers and maras are probably the current kings in arenas. Mercs maybe but they're very interrupt prone.

Sorry to hijack your "my class sucks more than yours"-thread, but I figured, the Op deserved an actual answer to his question (although I wouldn't be surprised, if he no longer follows the thread, maybe even deleted his forum account after all this...).

To the op:

For leveling, deception works really well, I'd prefer it over hatred. On the other hand, if you level with a friend and you maybe planing on doing flashpoints, you should also consider playing a tank (darkness). That could make your group-stuff easier.

As for how assassins are in general:

Solo-content: great

Small group content: good-great

Operations: good damage, ok raid-utility, tank-spec is great

Pvp: Opinions differ, as you could see on the last 4 pages... I'd say not the best, not the worst.

I have two friends who play shadows and one who plays operative, all say mercs are easier for them to sap cap. They also find a use for their stealth out basically on cooldown. So obviously its not useless. I at least admit FD has its use before i go into how to work around it.

 

All that said my simple point is that different classes work differently and have different advantages. I still think that anyone who believes guardian is in the same category as merc or sniper, especially one who fails to mention concentration sentinels, is missing the very nature of team play. 1v1 in this game is a sideshow at best. I admit sins probably arent the greatest in arenas. But then neither are guardians. Snipers and maras are probably the current kings in arenas. Mercs maybe but they're very interrupt prone.

As long as you have "different advantages." you create imbalance. DPS classes should, all things considered being equal mind you, your DPS output and overall survival should be relatively close to do otherwise negates the purpose of the other class! You create " I WIN CLASSES" another words its not skill that's winning its the overall class! It should be the other way around!

Case in point Merc's Snipers, jugs why play any other class if these High DPSing classes exist? Why play a mara or assassin the glass cannon specs? You'll do more DPS and survive longer on an I win class.

As long as you have "different advantages." you create imbalance. DPS classes should, all things considered being equal mind you, your DPS output and overall survival should be relatively close to do otherwise negates the purpose of the other class! You create " I WIN CLASSES" another words its not skill that's winning its the overall class! It should be the other way around!

 

Case in point Merc's Snipers, jugs why play any other class if these High DPSing classes exist? Why play a mara or assassin the glass cannon specs you do more DPS and survive longer on an I win class.

If they are all the same things would be rather dull, and mara is probably the best melee class right now. But we're not convincing each other of anything so this debate is getting pointless.

All i ever wanted was to point out that juggies are not nearly as op as mercs DCD wise, nor can we keep damage away from us like snipers.

Maras do more damage with actual anti-focus so I'd say they're doing pretty fine.

If they are all the same things would be rather dull, and mara is probably the best melee class right now. But we're not convincing each other of anything so this debate is getting pointless.

 

All i ever wanted was to point out that juggies are not nearly as op as mercs DCD wise, nor can we keep damage away from us like snipers.

 

Maras do more damage with actual anti-focus so I'd say they're doing pretty fine.

Really, and having lopsided jokes of a match are a better alternative?

not all mara's fury is in good spot now.

Really, and having lopsided jokes of a match are a better alternative?

 

not all mara's fury is in good spot now.

And the only dps guardian in a decent spot right now is vigi. Why bother with focus?

Does anyone play IO merc?

Pt dps outside of TR?

Lightening sorcs for anything?

Every spec has its weaknesses.

As long as you have "different advantages." you create imbalance. DPS classes should, all things considered being equal mind you, your DPS output and overall survival should be relatively close to do otherwise negates the purpose of the other class! You create " I WIN CLASSES" another words its not skill that's winning its the overall class! It should be the other way around!

I'll take "incoherent, unreadable, or 2nd grade grammar" for $200, Alex.

Sorry to hijack your "my class sucks more than yours"-thread, but I figured, the Op deserved an actual answer to his question (although I wouldn't be surprised, if he no longer follows the thread, maybe even deleted his forum account after all this...).

 

To the op:

For leveling, deception works really well, I'd prefer it over hatred. On the other hand, if you level with a friend and you maybe planing on doing flashpoints, you should also consider playing a tank (darkness). That could make your group-stuff easier.

 

As for how assassins are in general:

Solo-content: great

Small group content: good-great

Operations: good damage, ok raid-utility, tank-spec is great

Pvp: Opinions differ, as you could see on the last 4 pages... I'd say not the best, not the worst.

OP is long long gone by now

OP is long long gone by now

It's been three days. I know kids today are supposed to have shorter attention spans but I don't think they're that bad.

It's been three days. I know kids today are supposed to have shorter attention spans but I don't think they're that bad.

Haha I think it's the 3-page spam chat between Kendra and Kazz. I still don't even know *** they were talking about or whether they ever answered OP's question.

Dear OP. I think Deception is the most fun of the 3. It has nice burst. Hatred is fun too -- I like it for raiding.

Kazz Devlin, I totally agree with you 150%. Your posts are my thoughts exactly and I think KendraP should apply for a job int he dev team as the totally thinks and sees class balance the way they do. I think I've already mentioned this in other theads some time ago.

Yes, Kendra, sadly in PVP there are I WIN classes and Sin DPS isn't one of them. The developer team has no clue about what needs to be done, but DPS with guards needs to go and DPS with self heals and " another life" abilities need to have lesser DPS than classes with almost non existent self heals. it's logical, yet in this game.. we have another life classes + their insane DPS.

The only advantage SIn DPS has over jugg is stealth, in every other aspect the Jugg is much better.

And if you actually bothered reading my posts, i was resenting to the characterization of juggies as being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are. The best melee dps class is without a doubt a fury mara which is what i have been saying this whole time.

But i get it, reading is difficult.

And if you actually bothered reading my posts, i was resenting to the characterization of juggies as being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are. The best melee dps class is without a doubt a fury mara which is what i have been saying this whole time.

 

But i get it, reading is difficult.

Apparently so is comprehend what you read, I'm not convinced you do! You sure as heck don't grasp the meaning of "being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are"

Jugs reflect<----------> Mercs Reflect

Jugs Heal on dmg <--------------->Mercs Heal on damage

Jugs Mad dash <-------------->Rocket out

There is three ways right there that jugs ar LIKE MERC's bud! Those three ways also extend your life at least 1.5 times! Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

If jugs would accept the fact that DPS burst is suppose to be a glass cannon spec and thus go out do huge dmg and then die we might get some where. Instead you just keep keep pointing to merc's and sniper and saying were not like them! Yet you are, no not to their extent but your dmg output to Time to Death is to high! To be fair Merc and sniper's Time to Death is WAY WAY TO HIGH!

Yeah, I know, I know each class is better at some stuff than others argument! That is bull dookey! This is exactly how the dev's think and it is exactly why PVP dies. By doing it that way you in effect create weight classes. Which would be fine if this was MMA or boxing; and what would happen if a heavy weight went against a light weight or feather weight who do you think the odds of winning would be placed on? While having an upset is plausible how many of them would end up as Heavy weight being the victor? What would happen to the moral of those fighting in the lightweight classes? Would this not have the effect of forcing everyone into fighting as a heavy weight? Hmmm, well seeing as most matches now consists of at least 3mercs,3 jugs 2snipers this is exactly what has happened.

Possible solutions as previous stated remove all heal on dmg (or give to all) or nerf your overall dmg output your not DPS glass cannon spec's after all, your a hybrid pseudo tank/dps albeit the weakest of the trio but still you break trinity. They could raise glass cannons damage I'm not apposed to this at least this way, yeah you die quickly but you do a crap load of DPS making it worth while playing the class.

Keeping it as is, going with the status quo means glass cannon spec's are moot why play a class were I do high DPS and die quickly when i can play a Merc Jug or sniper DO AS HIGH OR HIGHER and not die as much!

Apparently so is comprehend what you read, I'm not convinced you do! You sure as heck don't grasp the meaning of "being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are"

 

Jugs reflect<----------> Mercs Reflect

Jugs Heal on dmg <--------------->Mercs Heal on damage

Jugs Mad dash <-------------->Rocket out

 

There is three ways right there that jugs ar LIKE MERC's bud! Those three ways also extend your life at least 1.5 times! Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

 

If jugs would accept the fact that DPS burst is suppose to be a glass cannon spec and thus go out do huge dmg and then die we might get some where. Instead you just keep keep pointing to merc's and sniper and saying were not like them! Yet you are, no not to their extent but your dmg output to Time to Death is to high! To be fair Merc and sniper's Time to Death is WAY WAY TO HIGH!

 

Yeah, I know, I know each class is better at some stuff than others argument! That is bull dookey! This is exactly how the dev's think and it is exactly why PVP dies. By doing it that way you in effect create weight classes. Which would be fine if this was MMA or boxing; and what would happen if a heavy weight went against a light weight or feather weight who do you think the odds of winning would be placed on? While having an upset is plausible how many of them would end up as Heavy weight being the victor? What would happen to the moral of those fighting in the lightweight classes? Would this not have the effect of forcing everyone into fighting as a heavy weight? Hmmm, well seeing as most matches now consists of at least 3mercs,3 jugs 2snipers this is exactly what has happened.

 

Possible solutions as previous stated remove all heal on dmg (or give to all) or nerf your overall dmg output your not DPS glass cannon spec's after all, your a hybrid pseudo tank/dps albeit the weakest of the trio but still you break trinity. They could raise glass cannons damage I'm not apposed to this at least this way, yeah you die quickly but you do a crap load of DPS making it worth while playing the class.

 

Keeping it as is, going with the status quo means glass cannon spec's are moot why play a class were I do high DPS and die quickly when i can play a Merc Jug or sniper DO AS HIGH OR HIGHER and not die as much!

While Juggs do have some reflect and damage mitigation, they are not even in the same lightyear when it comes to damage mitigation as a MERC.

Ok seriously dude, tell me where the mean guardian hit you.

A. Merc reflect is both longer, reflects more damage types, and heals the merc. The only downside is a longer CD

B. Mercs have spammable heals because they are a healing capable class.

C. Rocket out vs blade blitz, whatver. Id say BB was better because easier to aim but meh.

You can focus a guardian through reflect + FD very easily with 2 or more people. Provided you know what the buff looks like, its also not difficult to kite/mezz/Cc/whatever. Mercs reflect + heal is one button and all you can do is hope for LOS or aoe. My guardian does not have the range or mobility to keep up with most classes, even other melee ones.

If you choose to use your stealth out in an attempt to number farm rather than win, that seems like a you problem. I have 2 friends that play shadows that regularly win games for me. Would i rather have a guardian in a straight fight? Sure, a sentinel would be even better. But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous.

Ok seriously dude, tell me where the mean guardian hit you.

A. Merc reflect is both longer, reflects more damage types, and heals the merc. The only downside is a longer CD

B. Mercs have spammable heals because they are a healing capable class.

C. Rocket out vs blade blitz, whatver. Id say BB was better because easier to aim but meh.

 

You can focus a guardian through reflect + FD very easily with 2 or more people. Provided you know what the buff looks like, its also not difficult to kite/mezz/Cc/whatever. Mercs reflect + heal is one button and all you can do is hope for LOS or aoe. My guardian does not have the range or mobility to keep up with most classes, even other melee ones.

 

If you choose to use your stealth out in an attempt to number farm rather than win, that seems like a you problem. I have 2 friends that play shadows that regularly win games for me. Would i rather have a guardian in a straight fight? Sure, a sentinel would be even better. But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous.

ROFL, REALLY NEED TO WORK ON THAT READING COMPREHENSION!

think i said this "Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

You seem to think that because you get melted by merc's this some how excludes the fact you break trinity!

Fact is you would not get "melted" solo with a sin or a mara (other than fury) OR a sorc.

A. didn't say it was better or worse than jugs reflect

B. didn't make comparison on the quality of heals only stated you both had heals the trigger when damaged

C. didn't comment on easy of use of various dashing ability

for those with reading comprehension issues let me try to clarify that YOUR statement of "MERCS which they in no way are " was false as proved above in that you have similar abilities!

similar defined: resembling without being identical. (just in case)

Further clarification for meatbags with reading comprehension issues: In direct response to "But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous."

having similar abilities doesn't make you equal to said classes in question (i.e mercs & snipers) as stated previously your are on the low end of the trio. (To clarify that means if you soloed them they'd own you)

yeah i know the above probably confused you i'll try harder ........because they are really really OP and you are only mildly OP there OPness is greater .........that's as SIMPLE as I can make it!

Alas, though we all know your argument will be " One on one is irrelevant I focus on group fights" blah blah blah proving once again you didn't comprehend anything written in the last four pages.

Finally as to the number farming jab , As I stated before hard to win matches when your dead cause you stealth-ed out only to be popped back into combat by an AOE melee attack <cough> mad dash. (So if I choose to cloak and reengage as an alternative to cloaking out and attempting to run, when running will in all probability just end up leading to my death how is that number farming? Would that not be harnessing my potential as DPS burst glass cannon?)

So if your incapable of hitting mad dash when a sin cloaks out on you guess that's on you. Cloak is not the panacea you think it is especially against a jug that has AOE melee attack!

While Juggs do have some reflect and damage mitigation, they are not even in the same lightyear when it comes to damage mitigation as a MERC.

awe dude please tell me you actually have read what I have been writing. I ain't saying it rises to the level of merc or sniper but it still break trinity! BUT to clarify NERF THEM ALL!

Kazz Devlin, I totally agree with you 150%. Your posts are my thoughts exactly and I think KendraP should apply for a job int he dev team as the totally thinks and sees class balance the way they do. I think I've already mentioned this in other theads some time ago.

 

Yes, Kendra, sadly in PVP there are I WIN classes and Sin DPS isn't one of them. The developer team has no clue about what needs to be done, but DPS with guards needs to go and DPS with self heals and " another life" abilities need to have lesser DPS than classes with almost non existent self heals. it's logical, yet in this game.. we have another life classes + their insane DPS.

The only advantage SIn DPS has over jugg is stealth, in every other aspect the Jugg is much better.

I would only disagree a bit on the last. Stealth is good for getting off first attacks as an escape its really pure luck. If you have taken shroud of madness then you stand a good chance against classes that have no melee AOE attacks. Against a jug with skill he'll pop you out with mad dash 99% of the time just as an assassin's lacerate will. Don't buy into Kendra's dogma that its this golden panacea. Yes it is a valuable tool and I have used it to hide n heal to be fair here and maybe i have grown to cynical with all the times I have been "popped" so instead I accept the fact i'm gonna die and usually reengage going for the reckless reset.

First off, I beat mercs all the time. They are actually pretty interrupt prone for one thing, and I know how to make good use of LOS. A sniper is much more difficult for me because of their multiple get out of doge/get me away from them tools.

I am going to keep beating the dead horse that guardians are in no fashion in the same universe as mercs. the third member of that trio is a fury mara, which is also probably the most dangerous of that trio, because it does high damage with good burst as well.

I do not think stealth is an instant win button, anymore than I think FD is. I do think, however, that if sins had self heals to the level of FD (or worse mercs) they would be op because they also have the capability of stealthing. Like it or not, the stealth is a factor that must be balanced around. See also the king of 1v1 - operatives. (I am not jumping on any #nerfoperatives bandwagon, i am saying they are good 1v1).

I only mentioned the thing on stealth out because you said somewhere further back about using it as a damage buff. If that's your primary use of the tool, then perhaps you need to rethink your use of the class's tools. When I play concentration sent, I have used stealth out as a interrupt before, but if I think i need to use it as a disengage in the near future, I'm probably not going to do so. It's all about decisions.

Also, as a tank main who does nearly 3 mill protection in addition to taking almost 3 mill damage in warzones, I am perfectly aware of how blade blitz functions. for proof https://imgur.com/a/WS1mSY2