I want to squeeze in some DPS stats as well because I do Warzones more than I do PvE content, but I still want to be softcapped on all my Tank stats so I can do the PvE content without problem.

How much Def/Shield/Absorb should I aim for before diminishing returns start to kick in and DPS stats like Crit/Alacrity/Power become a better or at least equal alternative?

Um. Don't bother? Given the 5.9 changes, "don't bother" seems like the best policy. My sole tank just binned her tank gear and dropped Kinetic Combat in favour of Balance. Fortunately I had enough Command Tokens to buy a full set of tier 1 230s.

But grrrrrr.

Um. Don't bother? Given the 5.9 changes, "don't bother" seems like the best policy. My sole tank just binned her tank gear and dropped Kinetic Combat in favour of Balance. Fortunately I had enough Command Tokens to buy a full set of tier 1 230s.

 

But grrrrrr.

I'm not abandoning my Tank. I'm halfway to a set of 248's now.

1800 shield, 1300 absorb, lethal b mods (all enhancements should be b as well). Maybe 2 or 3 warding b mods.

Vanguards and shadows are gonna lose about 11% dps, and guardians 4% fyi. Bad, but I wouldn't just give up on them (especially cause it's not like tanks are gonna be less needed in pve).

I want to squeeze in some DPS stats as well because I do Warzones more than I do PvE content, but I still want to be softcapped on all my Tank stats so I can do the PvE content without problem.

 

How much Def/Shield/Absorb should I aim for before diminishing returns start to kick in and DPS stats like Crit/Alacrity/Power become a better or at least equal alternative?

First, if you start using any DPS mods you will not reach the recommended levels. You will have to use shield/absorption augments to do that even with the gear provided. Defense comes from the mods; however, the standard defense amount from the Ward mod will get you over 3000 with starter gear. 248 gear dramatically increases this!

Edited for clarification and highlighted:

I run absorption at 47.57% (1805) with shielding at 49.42% (1919). My defense is 3899. My defense chance is over 31.72%. I've had no issues with this build at any point in the game. Min/max can get the numbers higher; however that will require a lot of credits and time. However, IIRC, anything over 50% and 4100 defense diminishing returns is present.

Point is, getting those stats requires nothing but tank stat gear. You cannot get there augmenting with anything other than tank augments.

Here's a particularly good Jugg/Guardian gearing guide for end game gear. It shows everything from tier 1 through tier 4 legendary gear. All of which is not min/maxed. I am missing my 5 pieces of 248 legendary gear including my chest, hands, and legs. My rating is 246 overall. When I obtain those items, I just need to change up on my augments to swap around on shielding/absorption (Note: I already accomplished as noted in my updated stats). Otherwise, I'd be pretty much on with the guide.

BTW, you'll notice at the under that information is a DPS standing chart. Jugg/Knight Tanks (which include the abominable skanks) are even showing up on this chart! LOL. And BWA claims they're doing too much DPS!

First, if you start using any DPS mods you will not reach the recommended levels. You will have to use shield/absorption augments to do that even with the gear provided. Defense comes from the mods; however, the standard defense amount from the Ward mod will get you over 3000 with starter gear. 248 gear dramatically increases this!

 

I run absorption at near 49% with shielding at 48%. My defense is around 3800. My defense chance is over 32%. I've had no issues with this build at any point in the game. Min/max can get the numbers higher; however that will require a lot of credits and time. However, IIRC, anything over 50% and 4100 defense diminishing returns is present.

 

Point is, getting those stats requires nothing but tank stat gear. You cannot get there augmenting with anything other than tank augments.

 

Here's a particularly good Jugg/Guardian gearing guide for end game gear. It shows everything from tier 1 through tier 4 legendary gear. All of which is not min/maxed. I am missing my 5 or 6 pieces of 248 legendary gear including my chest and legs. When I obtain those items, I just need to change up on my augments to swap around on shielding/absorption. Otherwise, I'd be pretty much on with the guide.

 

BTW, you'll notice at the under that information is a DPS standing chart. Jugg/Knight Tanks (which include the abominable skanks) are even showing up on this chart! LOL. And BWA claims they're doing too much DPS!

i would argue high defense is thoroughly unnecessary. see this:

https://imgur.com/a/Tjlgy

a increase in defense rating from 2k to 3k provides a... roughly 4% greater chance to defend a hit. yay?

shield and absorb are more difficult to get and naturally, the numbers need to be higher, as high as you can get them, to even begin to approach the asymptote.

i would argue high defense is thoroughly unnecessary. see this:

https://imgur.com/a/Tjlgy

 

a increase in defense rating from 2k to 3k provides a... roughly 4% greater chance to defend a hit. yay?

 

shield and absorb are more difficult to get and naturally, the numbers need to be higher, as high as you can get them, to even begin to approach the asymptote.

You forget the following:

1. Aegis Assault increases damage reduction by 3% for 20 seconds

2. Lash Out increases melee and range defense by 3%

3. Blade Barricade increases defense chance by 5% for 10 seconds.

4. Dark Blood increases duration of Endure Pain by 10 seconds and elemental and internal damage reduction by 5%.*

5. Consuming Power increases shield absorption by 3%.

6. Defensive Slashes allows Ravage to increase defense chance by 2%, stacking up 3 times (6%) for 6 seconds.

7. Conquering Defense increases shield chance by 4%.

8. Sonic Barrier through force scream absorbs a moderate amount of damage. (Personal defense absorption shield.)

9. Sonic Wall protects all allies within range absorbing a moderate amount of damage. (This one has to be chosen under the masterful utility; of which I doubt any skank tank would do because it does not modify DPS.)

These are the passive and active powers that affect damage reduction, defense, shielding, and absorption. Conceivably, defense is buff during a fight 14%, shield chance by 4%, shield absorption by 3%, and damage reduction by 8%. That means:

- Damage reduction 50.93% * 8% (4.07) = 55% (DR is applied to all damage types 55% K/E, 21(26*)% Internal/Elemental)

- Defense chance: 31.78% * 14% (4.45) = 36.23%

- Absorption: 47.57% * 3% (1.42) = 48.99%

- Shield chance: 49.42% * 4% (1.97) = 51.39%

Your graphs are just graphs without any supporting data. I can make those up too with Excel! They'll look beautiful and interactive too. They mean nothing without the data it was taken from. The numbers above is what a tank has to work with for mitigation, defending, and protecting the team. What does your skank tank have? Oh yeah, 2 taunts and lots of damage! You cannot use your shield, it is useless.

These matter. The difference between a skank tank and a pure tank? Skank does not have these stats to deal with the damage for themselves or mitigating them for the team.

My defense of 3899 is through my gear. I've done nothing special to get there. I've not min/maxed it. This is what my legendary 248 tank gear gives me. Defense directly influences defense chance along with the possible 14% increase through passives and active powers. And you want to argue it isn't worth it based on a supposition; "a increase in defense rating from 2k to 3k provides a... roughly 4% greater chance to defend a hit?"

Defense does what it does in this game by design. We have defensive powers (active and passive) and defensive cool downs to modify defense, damage reduction, shield, and absorption as required. The accumulation of these powers make all these stats work, including the mitigation. That is the big picture. That is the focus. Not "damage dealing."

You cannot tell me that you have superior survivability than I do because you do more damage. There is not way in hell. I will reduce your damage applied to me by 55% for kinetic and energy, 21(26*)% for internal and elemental. You'll be lucky if your skank tank can get 10% to 15% DR because you have no tank defensive mods.

Tell you what, take your healer with your skank tank and take on Lucky. I did in my Vanguard tank. An hour later he lay dead at my feet. His biggest hit took 40% HP from me. He could not kill me. Why? Because I am in tank gear...not legendary, but 230, 232, and 236 gear with all my bonuses. Let's see you defeat lucky by yourself as a Skank tank.

You forget the following:

1. Aegis Assault increases damage reduction by 3% for 20 seconds

2. Lash Out increases melee and range defense by 3%

3. Blade Barricade increases defense chance by 5% for 10 seconds.

4. Dark Blood increases duration of Endure Pain by 10 seconds and elemental and internal damage reduction by 5%.

5. Consuming Power increases shield absorption by 3%.

6. Defensive Slashes allows Ravage to increase defense chance by 2%, stacking up 3 times (6%) for 6 seconds.

7. Conquering Defense increases shield chance by 4%.

8. Sonic Barrier through force scream absorbs a moderate amount of damage. (Personal defense absorption shield.)

9. Sonic Wall protects all allies within range absorbing a moderate amount of damage. (This one has to be chosen under the masterful utility; of which I doubt any skank tank would do because it does not modify DPS.)

 

These are the passive and active powers that affect damage reduction, defense, shielding, and absorption. Conceivably, defense is buff during a fight 14%, shield chance by 4%, shield absorption by 3%, and damage reduction by 8%. That means:

- Damage reduction 50.93% * 8% (4.07) = 55% (DR is applied to all damage types 55% K/E, 21% Internal/Elemental)

- Defense chance: 31.78% * 14% (4.45) = 36.23%

- Absorption: 47.57% * 3% (1.42) = 48.99%

- Shield chance: 49.42% * 4% (1.97) = 51.39%

 

Your graphs are just graphs without any supporting data. I can make those up too with Excel! They'll look beautiful and interactive too. They mean nothing without the data it was taken from. The numbers above is what a tank has to work with for mitigation, defending, and protecting the team. What does your skank tank have? Oh yeah, 2 taunts and lots of damage! You cannot use your shield, it is useless.

 

These matter. The difference between a skank tank and a pure tank? Skank does not have these stats to deal with the damage for themselves or mitigating them for the team.

 

My defense of 3899 is through my gear. I've done nothing special to get there. I've not min/maxed it. This is what my legendary 248 tank gear gives me. Defense directly influences defense chance along with the possible 14% increase through passives and active powers. And you want to argue it isn't worth it based on a supposition; "a increase in defense rating from 2k to 3k provides a... roughly 4% greater chance to defend a hit?"

 

Defense does what it does in this game by design. We have defensive powers (active and passive) and defensive cool downs to modify defense, damage reduction, shield, and absorption as required. The accumulation of these powers make all these stats work, including the mitigation. That is the big picture. That is the focus. Not "damage dealing."

 

You cannot tell me that you have superior survivability than I do because you do more damage. There is not way in hell. I will reduce your damage applied to me by 55% for kinetic and energy, 21% for internal and elemental. You'll be lucky if your skank tank can get 10% to 15% DR because you have no tank defensive mods.

 

Tell you what, take your healer with your skank tank and take on Lucky. I did in my Vanguard tank. An hour later he lay dead at my feet. His biggest hit took 40% HP from me. He could not kill me. Why? Because I am in tank gear...not legendary, but 230, 232, and 236 gear with all my bonuses. Let's see you defeat lucky by yourself as a Skank tank.

i thought this thread was talking about pve, where tank stats are useful. at any rate i'm done arguing i've explained myself to death and you're still not doing anything other than attacking me personally so whatever.

i thought this thread was talking about pve, where tank stats are useful. at any rate i'm done arguing i've explained myself to death and you're still not doing anything other than attacking me personally so whatever.

No, you've made excuses. Nothing more, nothing less. You now bow out of this discussion because you cannot counter anything I've said. I knew you would do that as soon as I put the factual evidence using the numbers. They do not lie. Your skank tank does not have that. Your stance on skank tanks is as bad as BWA stance on Conquests. Decisions made on bad data and subjective opinions with no supporting empirical evidence.

BTW, thank you again for the nerfs coming for all tank disciplines. Much appreciated.

No, you've made excuses. Nothing more, nothing less. You now bow out of this discussion because you cannot counter anything I've said. I knew you would do that as soon as I put the factual evidence using the numbers. They do not lie. Your skank tank does not have that. Your stance on skank tanks is as bad as BWA stance on Conquests. Decisions made on bad data and subjective opinions with no supporting empirical evidence.

 

BTW, thank you again for the nerfs coming for all tank disciplines. Much appreciated.

i've countered everything you've said all day. i'm just done repeating myself and being insulted.

You forget the following:

1. Aegis Assault increases damage reduction by 3% for 20 seconds

2. Lash Out increases melee and range defense by 3%

3. Blade Barricade increases defense chance by 5% for 10 seconds.

4. Dark Blood increases duration of Endure Pain by 10 seconds and elemental and internal damage reduction by 5%.*

5. Consuming Power increases shield absorption by 3%.

6. Defensive Slashes allows Ravage to increase defense chance by 2%, stacking up 3 times (6%) for 6 seconds.

7. Conquering Defense increases shield chance by 4%.

8. Sonic Barrier through force scream absorbs a moderate amount of damage. (Personal defense absorption shield.)

9. Sonic Wall protects all allies within range absorbing a moderate amount of damage. (This one has to be chosen under the masterful utility; of which I doubt any skank tank would do because it does not modify DPS.)

 

These are the passive and active powers that affect damage reduction, defense, shielding, and absorption. Conceivably, defense is buff during a fight 14%, shield chance by 4%, shield absorption by 3%, and damage reduction by 8%. That means:

- Damage reduction 50.93% * 8% (4.07) = 55% (DR is applied to all damage types 55% K/E, 21(26*)% Internal/Elemental)

- Defense chance: 31.78% * 14% (4.45) = 36.23%

- Absorption: 47.57% * 3% (1.42) = 48.99%

- Shield chance: 49.42% * 4% (1.97) = 51.39%

 

Your graphs are just graphs without any supporting data. I can make those up too with Excel! They'll look beautiful and interactive too. They mean nothing without the data it was taken from. The numbers above is what a tank has to work with for mitigation, defending, and protecting the team. What does your skank tank have? Oh yeah, 2 taunts and lots of damage! You cannot use your shield, it is useless.

 

These matter. The difference between a skank tank and a pure tank? Skank does not have these stats to deal with the damage for themselves or mitigating them for the team.

 

My defense of 3899 is through my gear. I've done nothing special to get there. I've not min/maxed it. This is what my legendary 248 tank gear gives me. Defense directly influences defense chance along with the possible 14% increase through passives and active powers. And you want to argue it isn't worth it based on a supposition; "a increase in defense rating from 2k to 3k provides a... roughly 4% greater chance to defend a hit?"

 

Defense does what it does in this game by design. We have defensive powers (active and passive) and defensive cool downs to modify defense, damage reduction, shield, and absorption as required. The accumulation of these powers make all these stats work, including the mitigation. That is the big picture. That is the focus. Not "damage dealing."

 

You cannot tell me that you have superior survivability than I do because you do more damage. There is not way in hell. I will reduce your damage applied to me by 55% for kinetic and energy, 21(26*)% for internal and elemental. You'll be lucky if your skank tank can get 10% to 15% DR because you have no tank defensive mods.

 

Tell you what, take your healer with your skank tank and take on Lucky. I did in my Vanguard tank. An hour later he lay dead at my feet. His biggest hit took 40% HP from me. He could not kill me. Why? Because I am in tank gear...not legendary, but 230, 232, and 236 gear with all my bonuses. Let's see you defeat lucky by yourself as a Skank tank.

The way those stats are calculated is wrong, for example the extra Defense and Shield chance you gain from the passives in the tank tree are additive not multiplicative. As an example, your defense actually rises by 11% when all buffs are active (retaliation buff is 5% and actually effects resist chance as well, ravage buff is 6%), although this only has a 33% uptime due to the cooldown on ravage, the retaliation buff can be maintained 100% though. In your case, this would take you from approximately 31% to 42% in a best case scenario, or due to the 33% uptime mentioned, an average defense chance of 31 + 5 + (6*.33) = 38%.

The point about diminishing returns has to do with tank gear, not the passives you gain from the tank tree. None of the passives in the tank tree affect the diminishing returns from gear directly, as the passives are all added on additively, not multiplicatively. You can see this by opening up your character sheet in combat and mousing over your defense/shield/absorb stats, you'll see they go up by exactly the amounts listed in your skill tree.

The way those stats are calculated is wrong, for example the extra Defense and Shield chance you gain from the passives in the tank tree are additive not multiplicative. As an example, your defense actually rises by 11% when all buffs are active (retaliation buff is 5% and actually effects resist chance as well, ravage buff is 6%), although this only has a 33% uptime due to the cooldown on ravage, the retaliation buff can be maintained 100% though. In your case, this would take you from approximately 31% to 42% in a best case scenario, or due to the 33% uptime mentioned, an average defense chance of 31 + 5 + (6*.33) = 38%.

 

The point about diminishing returns has to do with tank gear, not the passives you gain from the tank tree. None of the passives in the tank tree affect the diminishing returns from gear directly, as the passives are all added on additively, not multiplicatively. You can see this by opening up your character sheet in combat and mousing over your defense/shield/absorb stats, you'll see they go up by exactly the amounts listed in your skill tree.

Ghost just got obliterated by Wade. ^

@Kendra, what did you do to Ghost? He's stalking you on the forums now.

Ghost just got obliterated by Wade. ^

 

@Kendra, what did you do to Ghost? He's stalking you on the forums now.

I appear to have jerked his chain a bit XD