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> Especially when their stated stance is that they won't add story content to the cartel market.

 

Wow, they probably shouldn't have made that promise. Subscribers are going going to flip tables if Bioware introduces SGR options for companions and/or new cartel companions and calls it a player customization instead of story content. There's already precedence here for cartel companions with HK.

 

Statements like that tend to fall through as soon as a business realizes people will pay for something.

 

It's like if a company puts out a well received graphics capability demo and people start asking when they can buy the game and reps say they have no plans for a game based on the demo. If they're not deaf, blind, or incompetent, you can start your watches and give it about two years.

 

And this example is even more true. How often do we see people say (on the forums) "I will pay for this if you make it possible"

 

It's one of the problems with Cash Shops being introduced, stuff you used to get as part of the sub, gets moved to "pay for it" status as people keep saying "If you add it, I will pay"

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And this example is even more true. How often do we see people say (on the forums) "I will pay for this if you make it possible"

 

It's one of the problems with Cash Shops being introduced, stuff you used to get as part of the sub, gets moved to "pay for it" status as people keep saying "If you add it, I will pay"

 

This is exactly the trend I HATE! :t_evil: Before when an update came out for a game subscribers would usually get a little something extra. Sadly that something extra keeps getting to be less and less... :t_eek:

 

Now, with the Cash Shops added I can understand wanting more in them for us to purchase. But, some things, like um SGR content maybe, just doesn't feel right to put into them. Cosmetic stuff, okay yea and I can go along with that. But, story content as others have pointed out isn't one of them. Making SGR content a Cartel Item is something I am FIRMLY AGAINST!!! :t_frown:

 

Put it in an expansion where it belongs and I can agree paying for it. Not offered as a Cartel Item. :t_biggrin:

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This is exactly the trend I HATE! :t_evil: Before when an update came out for a game subscribers would usually get a little something extra. Sadly that something extra keeps getting to be less and less... :t_eek:

 

Now, with the Cash Shops added I can understand wanting more in them for us to purchase. But, some things, like um SGR content maybe, just doesn't feel right to put into them. Cosmetic stuff, okay yea and I can go along with that. But, story content as others have pointed out isn't one of them. Making SGR content a Cartel Item is something I am FIRMLY AGAINST!!! :t_frown:

 

Put it in an expansion where it belongs and I can agree paying for it. Not offered as a Cartel Item. :t_biggrin:

 

As a sub, I only care for the idea of some of the cosmetic items being put into the shop, while some can either be in game for subs or for subs and f2pers.

 

Problem I see with SGR content, as I can easily see it labeled as cosmetic content, as you get 5 companions already who cover all the bases when it comes to Melee DPS, Melee Tank, Range DPS, Range Tank, and Healer companion.

 

So, a new SGR companion would be cosmetic content, while SGR content with an already in game companion would be updating (so free) content.

 

And I don't see why any updates to companions should be expansion based content and not just "oh in patch 2.5 we've added SGR to the classes companions" it's what subs pay for.

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Problem I see with SGR content, as I can easily see it labeled as cosmetic content, as you get 5 companions already who cover all the bases when it comes to Melee DPS, Melee Tank, Range DPS, Range Tank, and Healer companion.

 

"Content" is probably a bad word choice for describing the cosmetic options in the Cartel Market. If they were to suddenly decide that F2P had been the wrong way to go and that all the stuff in the Market was evil and excised it from the game and forced everyone to go back to the subscription model, nothing in the game would change except there would be fewer options for the appearances of certain things. All the missions would still be there, all the flashpoints and operations, all the battlegrounds, all the classes, all the companions(even HK), everything. Even Makeb and levels 50-55. Given all that, new companions would be extremely unlikely to be in the Cartel Market as anything other than unlocks for non-subscribers. Now, if you've been arguing all along that they'll be unlocks for non-subs and that that is your objection, well, then, I have completely misread a lot of your posts.

 

So, a new SGR companion would be cosmetic content, while SGR content with an already in game companion would be updating (so free) content.

 

Yes, just like HK-51 was cosmetic content and subscribers had to pay extra to get him. Oh, wait.

 

And I don't see why any updates to companions should be expansion based content and not just "oh in patch 2.5 we've added SGR to the classes companions" it's what subs pay for.

 

The point that I was making when I brought up World of Warcraft and its expansions is that Patch 2.5 is expansion content, and could very well have SGR companions in it. (I mean, it won't, but it could.) Patch 2.everything is RotHC expansion content, and when any of it isn't cosmetic stuff that was always destined for the Market, subscribers will get it for no additional charge, as long as they bought the expansion.

 

Also, as much as I loved City of Heroes and will forever mourn its passing, it honestly had a lot less content than this game does. It just had a lot more ways to mix and match what content it did have, and everything was polished to within an inch of its life. Combat was a lot more fun(although my Combat sentinel evokes memories of playing my scrappers), and it had the best character creator ever, both of which helped to hide the fact that there was nothing to do but run the same 4 or 5 kinds of missions on a very limited selection of maps over and over and over. Creating and publishing its content was so easy that they added the tools to do it to the game itself and let players do it. (Which was totally awesome, not saying it wasn't.) So, yeah, subs getting the larger content patches for free in that game totally understandable. Very different scenario here.

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Yes, just like HK-51 was cosmetic content and subscribers had to pay extra to get him. Oh, wait.

 

Fail. HK-51 was released before F2P. And what they deem worthy for the cartel market can change as well.

 

The point that I was making when I brought up World of Warcraft and its expansions is that Patch 2.5 is expansion content, and could very well have SGR companions in it. (I mean, it won't, but it could.) Patch 2.everything is RotHC expansion content, and when any of it isn't cosmetic stuff that was always destined for the Market, subscribers will get it for no additional charge, as long as they bought the expansion.

 

Also, as much as I loved City of Heroes and will forever mourn its passing, it honestly had a lot less content than this game does. It just had a lot more ways to mix and match what content it did have, and everything was polished to within an inch of its life. Combat was a lot more fun(although my Combat sentinel evokes memories of playing my scrappers), and it had the best character creator ever, both of which helped to hide the fact that there was nothing to do but run the same 4 or 5 kinds of missions on a very limited selection of maps over and over and over. Creating and publishing its content was so easy that they added the tools to do it to the game itself and let players do it. (Which was totally awesome, not saying it wasn't.) So, yeah, subs getting the larger content patches for free in that game totally understandable. Very different scenario here.

 

Don't know if I agree that the missions where all that different in CoH and TOR. But really, I've felt that mission types where the same in all MMOs. Kill these enemies in this mission. Kill this many enemies. Talk to this person. Click this object

 

Now, TOR does do a bit more by adding in the cut scenes, if that's what you're talking about.

 

But then, I felt CoH had way more options in how one got from level 1-50. Do I skip Kings Row? Do I just rdo serwer runs? Mix them up? Do I do the starting missions in AP? GC (before it was destroyed)? Do I just grind my way to 50 with ITFs?

 

Where as in TOR, I go planet to planet in the same order, hitting up the exact same missions, with the only difference being the class storyline missions.

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Fail. HK-51 was released before F2P. And what they deem worthy for the cartel market can change as well.

 

 

 

Don't know if I agree that the missions where all that different in CoH and TOR. But really, I've felt that mission types where the same in all MMOs. Kill these enemies in this mission. Kill this many enemies. Talk to this person. Click this object

 

Now, TOR does do a bit more by adding in the cut scenes, if that's what you're talking about.

 

But then, I felt CoH had way more options in how one got from level 1-50. Do I skip Kings Row? Do I just rdo serwer runs? Mix them up? Do I do the starting missions in AP? GC (before it was destroyed)? Do I just grind my way to 50 with ITFs?

 

Where as in TOR, I go planet to planet in the same order, hitting up the exact same missions, with the only difference being the class storyline missions.

 

No you fail, HK-51 was not released before F2P as I remember people Purchasing access to Section X and then asking for refunds because they didn't know they got it free as a subscriber. If everyone was a subscriber the day HK-51 came out, I wouldn't have been having to say "IF you are a free or preferred player, yes you must buy Section X, if you are not you don't" and that was on the day I got HK, which was the very first day he was available

 

Check the patch notes, F2P and HK-51 were released simultaneously. Which, was a big part of the problem people had... we had no idea what was and wasn't included in our subscription when there was all this new stuff.

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No you fail, HK-51 was not released before F2P as I remember people Purchasing access to Section X and then asking for refunds because they didn't know they got it free as a subscriber. If everyone was a subscriber the day HK-51 came out, I wouldn't have been having to say "IF you are a free or preferred player, yes you must buy Section X, if you are not you don't" and that was on the day I got HK, which was the very first day he was available

 

Check the patch notes, F2P and HK-51 were released simultaneously. Which, was a big part of the problem people had... we had no idea what was and wasn't included in our subscription when there was all this new stuff.

 

Hmmm...I was subbed then too. Still goes back to the "plans can change" and they can make the next companion Cartel Market.

 

The "This is this way, so it will stay this way" argument is still fail. They could easily decide that if people want a companion that is in no way needed, it is nothing more the window dressing to be purchased in the cartel market.

 

Before F2P, one had to go out and level up to get their look they want. Before F2P, one had to level a Chiss to 50 before they could make a Chiss Force User, before that, it wasn't even an option.

 

Plans change, and after the dye pack, I have little faith they won't charge for new content. And putting a SGR companion in any new paid for "expansion" is still paying2gay, the only way it's not, is if they just give it to subs (or subs and f2p...giving it free to subs is not p2g) who haven't bought Makeb.

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Before F2P, one had to go out and level up to get their look they want. Before F2P, one had to level a Chiss to 50 before they could make a Chiss Force User, before that, it wasn't even an option.

 

It was an option, actually. You just had to get your Legacy to a certain level and shell out a heap of credits. You can still do that, in fact, for every race but Cathar. And yes, it was an option from the day they added Legacies to the game.

 

The only things in the Cartel Market that aren't available to subscribers through normal gameplay are purely cosmetic. Well, okay, and extra character slots. And you keep bringing up dye packs as if that's somehow an utter betrayal of their stated intentions and practically proof that they're going to turn around and start charging for all the things they said they wouldn't, when dye packs are in fact the most cosmetic thing in the store. Like, almost literally the definition of cosmetic.

 

There is no way Bioware can rescue the SGR situation, we agree on that. They have already screwed that pooch. What we disagree on is how much worse they're going to make it, with you firmly at the bottom of the pessimism pit and digging deeper every post, and me up here at the edge of the optimism camp.

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Interesting discussion about the possibilities of a SGR Companion. It is hard to say if I would rather they add one to the CM, or not add one at all. I lean towards the former though. :( But if they did introduce a SGR Companion, they could always make some money by adding a bunch of customization kits to the CM as a compromise. At least, assuming they added ones that a lot of people actually liked (some Companions just don't seem to have nice enough looking customizations, I almost always see them as default!).

 

But knowing my luck, they next Companion will probably be an Ewok or an Ortolan or something. :p Non-human type Companions like HK seem to be easier to "fit" to all classes, and you only need one (while there would have to be two SGR Companions, unless they only added it for one gender :eek: ) so I am inclined to think Bioware would choose that easier route.

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There is no way Bioware can rescue the SGR situation, we agree on that. They have already screwed that pooch. What we disagree on is how much worse they're going to make it, with you firmly at the bottom of the pessimism pit and digging deeper every post, and me up here at the edge of the optimism camp.

 

I'm at least optimistic that they will add it :)

 

And dye pack is just the easy example. I could just as easy point to Thana Vesh's outfit, a highly requested outfit, that they put in the RNG Packs :( And I have no problem with the RNG Packs (except for them making RARE Jawagrams, that is a problem).

 

That's an outfit they could've put in the CM as a whole outfit to purchase, and sadly they went the route of Packs with it :/

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And I don't see why any updates to companions should be expansion based content and not just "oh in patch 2.5 we've added SGR to the classes companions" it's what subs pay for.

 

Okay, I like your view here much better! :t_cool:

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I really hope this happens soon. Its one of the reasons I got this game. There are so few options out there for gay gamers who like roleplaying games. Its hard when you play games like this and your only option Is to go down a specific path. Think how you'd feel if you were straight and every game forced you to be gay or not experience a lot of content. It gets frustrating after a while.

 

I have a lot of gripes about EA but one thing I can applaud them on is they have always supported gay players. The Sims was ground-breaking for its time. They allowed fully realized same sex relationship way ahead of anyone else. And they didn't buckle under pressure when all the family rights groups went after them for putting same sex relationships in Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

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I really hope this happens soon. Its one of the reasons I got this game. There are so few options out there for gay gamers who like roleplaying games. Its hard when you play games like this and your only option Is to go down a specific path. Think how you'd feel if you were straight and every game forced you to be gay or not experience a lot of content. It gets frustrating after a while.

 

I have a lot of gripes about EA but one thing I can applaud them on is they have always supported gay players. The Sims was ground-breaking for its time. They allowed fully realized same sex relationship way ahead of anyone else. And they didn't buckle under pressure when all the family rights groups went after them for putting same sex relationships in Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

 

I can think of one other MMO that has relationships in it, and it's not even with NPCs, but other players, so I have to ask, when it comes to MMOs, it's not like there's options in the first place for relationships with NPCs.

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I can think of one other MMO that has relationships in it, and it's not even with NPCs, but other players, so I have to ask, when it comes to MMOs, it's not like there's options in the first place for relationships with NPCs.

 

This is the only MMO that combines a traditional roleplaying game. So I compare it to those.

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This is the only MMO that combines a traditional roleplaying game. So I compare it to those.

 

Then that's the second mistake. The first was still picking up TOR and thinking it would be DA or TOR. And a single path...all the classes end up at the same spot as every other matching class, with very little if any variance.

 

I got more different endings from Tactics Ogre than I get in TOR :/

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I don't think JetAten has made any 'mistakes', either in picking up the game with expectations or comparing it to other, non-MMO games. Bioware: Austin isn't the same company that made the games being compared to TOR but they have very much capitalised on the good standing of the Bioware name; all of the advertising carries the Bioware label and the EA label (at the bottom of this very page, for example) with no differentiation made between the Austin and Edmonton branches. I think that picking up TOR and expecting it to have the same rough level of quality in certain areas as previous titles is entirely reasonable. If nothing else the quality assurance people at EA should have made certain it was the same quality before allowing it to be launched, instead of both BW:A and EA rushing it through to release so obviously.

 

It's not the same quality. It is a good game but it's left a lot of long-standing Bioware (and even EA) fans cold. And unfortunately we've been saying that we hope it gets implemented 'soon' since launch. A year and a half later not even 'writer soon' covers it.

 

This whole matter has been poorly managed; they still won't confirm what's going on with it. One 50+ NPC flirt opportunity per faction (female for Republic, male for Empire) doesn't make up for over a year of almost total silence. Tell us it's coming or tell us it's not, that's what I say. I'd rather know than not.

 

No, they don't have any requirement to put it in. No, they don't have any requirement to tell us anything. But it's still darn shoddy customer service.

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I don't think JetAten has made any 'mistakes', either in picking up the game with expectations or comparing it to other, non-MMO games. Bioware: Austin isn't the same company that made the games being compared to TOR but they have very much capitalised on the good standing of the Bioware name; all of the advertising carries the Bioware label and the EA label (at the bottom of this very page, for example) with no differentiation made between the Austin and Edmonton branches. I think that picking up TOR and expecting it to have the same rough level of quality in certain areas as previous titles is entirely reasonable. If nothing else the quality assurance people at EA should have made certain it was the same quality before allowing it to be launched, instead of both BW:A and EA rushing it through to release so obviously.

 

It's not the same quality. It is a good game but it's left a lot of long-standing Bioware (and even EA) fans cold. And unfortunately we've been saying that we hope it gets implemented 'soon' since launch. A year and a half later not even 'writer soon' covers it.

 

This whole matter has been poorly managed; they still won't confirm what's going on with it. One 50+ NPC flirt opportunity per faction (female for Republic, male for Empire) doesn't make up for over a year of almost total silence. Tell us it's coming or tell us it's not, that's what I say. I'd rather know than not.

 

No, they don't have any requirement to put it in. No, they don't have any requirement to tell us anything. But it's still darn shoddy customer service.

 

So, if Blue Hole Studios made a new MMO that used tab targeting, instead of the dynamic targeting TERA uses, and one buys the new game because of TERA, one should point to TERA and tell Blue Hole Studios, "You made this, this way, so all your games should be this way"?

 

That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Final Fantasy the MMO feels nothing like Final Fantasy the console game. Should one really be expecting the MMO to be just like the console games? I wouldn't think so.

 

That's why I think it was a mistake to think TOR would be anything like a single player RPG game. Wasn't trying to be mean. I don't pick up TOR then go and pick up Star Wars: The Dance Game, and think because they're both Star Wars they're the same.

 

But yes, things like that would be nice to know, though the answer is very likely "On back burner" IE: We want and/or are considering doing it, but it'll be slow as all get out, because it won't be worth the time and investment to hurry it out, because it won't have a real factor on our player base.

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So, if Blue Hole Studios made a new MMO that used tab targeting, instead of the dynamic targeting TERA uses, and one buys the new game because of TERA, one should point to TERA and tell Blue Hole Studios, "You made this, this way, so all your games should be this way"?

 

If Blue Hole Studios had made several games that had the dynamic targeting that TERA uses, and that was their big schtick that they were famous for, and then they made a new game that banked on being the same kind of experience you've come to expect from Blue Hole Studios, and then it was not that experience, then yes, you'd have the right to feel a bit let down.

 

Final Fantasy the MMO feels nothing like Final Fantasy the console game. Should one really be expecting the MMO to be just like the console games? I wouldn't think so.

 

Not really the best example to use, since every Final Fantasy game(especially since the jump from 6 to 7) has had fundamental gameplay changes, with pretty much just the major thematic elements to tie them together as Final Fantasy. Anyone who expects any Final Fantasy game to be just like any other Final Fantasy game has probably only ever played one Final Fantasy game, but if they expect any given FF to have chocobos, Cure spells, Fire spells, and Cid(just as examples), they're probably not going to be disappointed.

 

That's why I think it was a mistake to think TOR would be anything like a single player RPG game. Wasn't trying to be mean. I don't pick up TOR then go and pick up Star Wars: The Dance Game, and think because they're both Star Wars they're the same.

 

Except of course that TOR was pretty much advertised as KOTOR but an MMO. And really, it basically is KOTOR, but an MMO. If you came for a KOTOR-style game, you can absolutely play it as a single-player KOTOR-style game. There'll be a few missions you'll have to skip until you over-level them sufficiently, and the later flashpoints and all the operations are beyond reach, but they're mostly fairly light on story anyway.

 

If they told me that Star Wars: The Dance Game was the full Bioware story experience, expressed through a dancing game, then yeah, I'm going to go pick up SWTDG because a) that would be awesome and b) what I want from a Bioware game is the full story experience, and honestly as far as gameplay goes you can just call me Honey Badger.

 

(As a side note, you know the "Action" option in Mass Effect 3 where you don't get to pick your dialogue and just play through all the shooty bits? I would pay good money to have the opposite, where I'm in control of all the exploration and dialogue, and then when it's time for combat the game just takes over and shows me an action movie. That would be the best game ever.)

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If Blue Hole Studios had made several games that had the dynamic targeting that TERA uses, and that was their big schtick that they were famous for, and then they made a new game that banked on being the same kind of experience you've come to expect from Blue Hole Studios, and then it was not that experience, then yes, you'd have the right to feel a bit let down.

 

So, the only thing people banked on with BW games before, was SGR content? o.O Seriously, doubt that's what people banked on (as a majority case, I'm sure there's people in this thread who totally banked on that, and quite possibly the only reason they played the game).

 

 

Not really the best example to use, since every Final Fantasy game(especially since the jump from 6 to 7) has had fundamental gameplay changes, with pretty much just the major thematic elements to tie them together as Final Fantasy. Anyone who expects any Final Fantasy game to be just like any other Final Fantasy game has probably only ever played one Final Fantasy game, but if they expect any given FF to have chocobos, Cure spells, Fire spells, and Cid(just as examples), they're probably not going to be disappointed.

 

So, TOR was their jump. And look, want chat options, you still have them in TOR just like in all the other BW games, and just like the other games, it's not infinite amount of possibilities, and not always a list of choices with a choice you want to take.

 

Except of course that TOR was pretty much advertised as KOTOR but an MMO. And really, it basically is KOTOR, but an MMO. If you came for a KOTOR-style game, you can absolutely play it as a single-player KOTOR-style game. There'll be a few missions you'll have to skip until you over-level them sufficiently, and the later flashpoints and all the operations are beyond reach, but they're mostly fairly light on story anyway.

 

If they told me that Star Wars: The Dance Game was the full Bioware story experience, expressed through a dancing game, then yeah, I'm going to go pick up SWTDG because a) that would be awesome and b) what I want from a Bioware game is the full story experience, and honestly as far as gameplay goes you can just call me Honey Badger.

 

(As a side note, you know the "Action" option in Mass Effect 3 where you don't get to pick your dialogue and just play through all the shooty bits? I would pay good money to have the opposite, where I'm in control of all the exploration and dialogue, and then when it's time for combat the game just takes over and shows me an action movie. That would be the best game ever.)

 

I never felt TOR was advertised as KOTOR the MMO! And I was there in the beginning. But much like KOTOR, you have a character (your class) who is limited in what they do with given choices decided upon by the developers. They just didn't give us the choice we may want.

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I had been away from here for awhile due to some of the extremes in opinions regarding this topic. seems they still persist. its my belief that the reason sgrs will be expansion based (or massive update based) is because they wont be included into current companions. its just not gonna happen imo. the only way to do that would be turn off the gender flag but I don't think bioware would do something that half-a**ed. when they implement it it would be with new companions when they bring em in. aside from more npcs. true they kinda pulled back with makeb but with all the backlash they were takin they had to take it easy. may not be wat u wanna hear but it had to be done. its their fault for not implementing it at launch (even tho atleast every class has a sgr possible candidate i.e mako, jaesa, kaliyo, andronikus etc). by next year im sure we'll have the full sgrs we all want.
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http://racebending.tumblr.com/post/53393798688/the-i-can-be-black-is-something-never-to-be

 

Yes, this is about racial representation in games and no, it doesn't mention SWTOR, but it does mention two Bioware games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age) and, even though representations of PoC, LGBT+ peoples and women each have their own problems to overcome and cannot be adequately compared to each other, the principle is that representation is an important factor to people and it should be regarded as important by games developers.

 

It would be interesting to see the racial diversity (within humans) that this game has, but calculating the numbers is an undertaking currently beyond me.

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Hey all.

Been lurking waiting to see what else EAWare has in store for us. But it seems that things are really starting to quiet down even in this thread. Do you think that the hope of getting true SGRA's is finally becoming less and less of a possibility? Was Makeb our one shot wonder and that will be it? Thoughts?

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Hey all.

Been lurking waiting to see what else EAWare has in store for us. But it seems that things are really starting to quiet down even in this thread. Do you think that the hope of getting true SGRA's is finally becoming less and less of a possibility? Was Makeb our one shot wonder and that will be it? Thoughts?

 

I lost hope of ever seeing companion SGRAs (it seems clear to me that won't be happening).

 

But I'm sure we'll see something similar to the "SGRs" in Makeb in the next mini-expansion to be released next year....yippee.

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