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Getting focused in arena. Nothing i can do (medic)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Getting focused in arena. Nothing i can do (medic)

Suryi's Avatar


Suryi
10.08.2013 , 04:03 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by SWEtree View Post
(I queue solo ranked)
There's the issue :p If you want to truly enjoy arenas, NEVER solo queue, unless you're comm farming. You'd feel a lot better about your combat medic if you had 3 competent people that can react to what the 4 enemies are/could be doing to you. Plus it's much more fun to get better as a team; get in a guild and start playing.
Nhilas - Combat Medic Commando
Junkbox - Bodyguard Mercenary

klham's Avatar


klham
10.10.2013 , 05:35 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Suryi View Post
There's the issue If you want to truly enjoy arenas, NEVER solo queue, unless you're comm farming. You'd feel a lot better about your combat medic if you had 3 competent people that can react to what the 4 enemies are/could be doing to you. Plus it's much more fun to get better as a team; get in a guild and start playing.
Team support improves commando/merc performance regardless of spec, but especially heals. We're unable to perform our team healing function when under any kind of pressure (unlike Op healers, who can continue evading and LoSing while refreshing HoTs on team mates and self etc.). A commando/merc has to either run out of range and hope he's not pursued or simply stand there self-healing until help arrives. And when we do either of those things, we're not healing anyone else. The best way to neutralize a Combat Medic is to put a melee dps on him - you don't even have to kill him, just keep him focused on his own survival because the spec isn't designed to multi-task under pressure the way the other heal specs/classes are.
Tavjun (Gunnery) | POT5
:: Eridani Legacy ::

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
10.10.2013 , 09:24 AM | #13
Combat medics are not meant for arenas. An immobile healer that does not function under pressure is a liability.

Part of the problem we are so susceptible and disproportionately hurt by interrupts when compared to other healers. Ya, you could pop your reactive shield for interrupt immunity but then they need only to cc you for that and you are completely shut down for great lengths of time.

We also use op/scoundrel healers as the healing benchmark class because they are so good. We can't compete with what they bring to the arena.

Combat medics need a balance change yes, but op/scoundrels need to be nerfed a bit too. It's better to nerf them to be in line with sage/commando healers than to buff the 2 classes to the level of op/scoundrels.
The Canadian Legacy
My YouTube channel.

Suryi's Avatar


Suryi
10.10.2013 , 09:50 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by klham View Post
Team support improves commando/merc performance regardless of spec, but especially heals. We're unable to perform our team healing function when under any kind of pressure (unlike Op healers, who can continue evading and LoSing while refreshing HoTs on team mates and self etc.). A commando/merc has to either run out of range and hope he's not pursued or simply stand there self-healing until help arrives. And when we do either of those things, we're not healing anyone else. The best way to neutralize a Combat Medic is to put a melee dps on him - you don't even have to kill him, just keep him focused on his own survival because the spec isn't designed to multi-task under pressure the way the other heal specs/classes are.
No. 1 melee dps will not do much to keep us neutralized. Keep you busy, sure, but neutralized is an overstatement. There's ways to handle 1; you can fakecast, you can kb at the right time/in the right place, you can kite via htl and kolto bomb or any other slow i.e. riot gas or freezing force, you can stun to stop certain burst rotations such as gore/precision slash, you can cc. If you're guarded, the damage he'll do will be completely manageable. Not to mention he's not gonna sit on you in a void, you have peels from your teammates. More issues come with 2 on you, then you really need the undivided attention (or something close to that) of your tank and the occasional peels from your other 2 teammates. I completely do not agree with your statement that we can't handle multi-task pressure. Pressure doesn't happen in a void where it just keeps building up, there's pressure relievers like cc or defensive cds that give you breathing room to top ppl up, you just have to learn to spot them and utilize them as best as you can.

Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
Combat medics are not meant for arenas. An immobile healer that does not function under pressure is a liability.

Part of the problem we are so susceptible and disproportionately hurt by interrupts when compared to other healers. Ya, you could pop your reactive shield for interrupt immunity but then they need only to cc you for that and you are completely shut down for great lengths of time.
We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.
Nhilas - Combat Medic Commando
Junkbox - Bodyguard Mercenary

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
10.10.2013 , 10:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Suryi View Post
We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.
I consider myself an amazing commando healer. I use all the tricks like kiting, fake casting, CC, and etc, but at the end of the day I accept that commando healers have extreme vulnerabilities. It's these extremes I am discussing.

If you want to talk about semantics, you can call the class a limited mobility healer. However, the point in calling the class immobile stems from the fact that the most effective HPS comes from remaining stationary. The mechanics of the class support this style of play.

Of course the class has instant abilities to use while on the move, but the weakness here is they all have cooldowns. Eventually you will need to stop and chain cast a bunch of heals.
The Canadian Legacy
My YouTube channel.

Suryi's Avatar


Suryi
10.10.2013 , 10:33 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
I consider myself an amazing commando healer. I use all the tricks like kiting, fake casting, CC, and etc, but at the end of the day I accept that commando healers have extreme vulnerabilities. It's these extremes I am discussing.

If you want to talk about semantics, you can call the class a limited mobility healer. However, the point in calling the class immobile stems from the fact that the most effective HPS comes from remaining stationary. The mechanics of the class support this style of play.

Of course the class has instant abilities to use while on the move, but the weakness here is they all have cooldowns. Eventually you will need to stop and chain cast a bunch of heals.
I agree with these points. Your initial post stated that you believe combat medic is not meant for arena, which is the point that I strongly disagree with. The vulnerabilities you state can be compensated. You mention that we eventually have to stop and chain a bunch of heals; stopping and doing so at the right time will compensate for that and when I say at the right time I mean during a cc on the enemies or at least on the enemy that's bothering you the most and/or doing the most damage. This is highly abstract but I hope my point is clear.

This is not theoretical, these are things that I'm aware of and try to improve as I play ranked with people that I consider to be decent players and amazing guys because they don't mind that I'm a combat medic i.e. not a scoundrel. We've had great results meaning we've won FAR more then we've lost, gaining about 800 rating in the process. Just saying this so people don't assume I'm making up scenarios with each argument I make.
Nhilas - Combat Medic Commando
Junkbox - Bodyguard Mercenary

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
10.10.2013 , 12:24 PM | #17
I don't think anyone could say a commando healer is incapable of achieving great things in arenas. However, I still maintain that they are not an effective arena healer. I'm not one to knit pick contexts or circumstances, but the fact I look at is this: You can shut down a commando healer's effective healing output more easily than a scoundrel/op healer.
The Canadian Legacy
My YouTube channel.

SWEtree's Avatar


SWEtree
10.11.2013 , 08:12 AM | #18
Good views from both sides. I appreciate this. If someone can post a arena video with a medic that would be great.
All help is welcome.

Uggen's Avatar


Uggen
10.12.2013 , 06:54 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Suryi View Post
No. 1 melee dps will not do much to keep us neutralized. Keep you busy, sure, but neutralized is an overstatement. There's ways to handle 1; you can fakecast, you can kb at the right time/in the right place, you can kite via htl and kolto bomb or any other slow i.e. riot gas or freezing force, you can stun to stop certain burst rotations such as gore/precision slash, you can cc. If you're guarded, the damage he'll do will be completely manageable. Not to mention he's not gonna sit on you in a void, you have peels from your teammates. More issues come with 2 on you, then you really need the undivided attention (or something close to that) of your tank and the occasional peels from your other 2 teammates. I completely do not agree with your statement that we can't handle multi-task pressure. Pressure doesn't happen in a void where it just keeps building up, there's pressure relievers like cc or defensive cds that give you breathing room to top ppl up, you just have to learn to spot them and utilize them as best as you can.



We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.
I have played about 20 solo queue matches on combat medic since 2.4 was released(in full DPS gear), and not one of those matches was against any famous players, so I haven't got tons of experience with arena yet. But from what I managed to gather up, it seems that the difference between mando and scoundrel have equalized(slightly), from rwz pre 2.4.
From what I've seen combat medic is absolutely viable, it's just that it will always require more effort than the other healers. Not that you will ever(as far as I have seen) outperform a good scoundrel, but still viable.
Uggen-Commando
Tomb of Freedon Nadd.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.12.2013 , 09:50 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SWEtree View Post
Well ive lost 9 games in a row now. There NOTHING i can do. I get 3+ ppl on me. fight starts with a CC wich i break,pop shield + hold the line and then i get stunned again and its game over. Over and over again. Any tips how to survive more than those 4 seconds?
The usual response of some PvP players would be . "L2P".
This "argument" is easy to say, and doesn't imply any need to elaborate it any further. That's why it is so much loved among some PvP players - and led me to the suspicion that it is the preferred "argument-shutdown" counter-attack of those who haven't actually played the class that - as they say - "needs to L2P".
.
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.