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Vote kick should incur 20 minute lockout


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I think a 20 minute lockout would enable even worse griefing. All it basically takes is two trolls and random, innocent people are getting 20 minute lock-outs from content.

 

Good point, what if they changed it to require 3 votes?

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I think, we have enough People in the Game, which are thinking that you need to be a Level 75 with 306 Gear (fully augmented) for Hammer Station Master-Mode. I can easily see, how these type of Players will kick someone for being a Level 73 in this Flashpoint, because "my Companion is level 50 and is the better Healer". Doesn't matter if two or three have to vote.

 

But we have Legacy-Ignore now...they will only do it once.

 

I agree with Jedimasterjac. Only hurt innocent people.

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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The current system is abused by people wanting to avoid a desertion lockout, and applying a similar lockout to people removed via vote kick would also be abused by pairs of trolls who just want to mess with people because that is how they get their kicks, or people who feel elitist and insist of some arbitrary standard for completing content with them.
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I think, we have enough People in the Game, which are thinking that you need to be a Level 75 with 306 Gear (fully augmented) for Hammer Station Master-Mode. I can easily see, how these type of Players will kick someone for being a Level 73 in this Flashpoint, because "my Companion is level 50 and is the better Healer". Doesn't matter if two or three have to vote.

 

But we have Legacy-Ignore now...they will only do it once.

 

I agree with Jedimasterjac. Only hurt innocent people.

 

Under level 75 player has no place in MM content, its a waste of time and energy for others. Bolster simply doesn't do the trick. Stick to the VM until 75, it ain't a rocket science.

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Under level 75 player has no place in MM content, its a waste of time and energy for others. Bolster simply doesn't do the trick. Stick to the VM until 75, it ain't a rocket science.

 

You do realize, that you are the problem?

 

MM FPs are downbolstered/downgraded to 70, except Meridian, which is a true Level 75 FP. If you need to have a Level 75, to do a Level 70 Flashpoint, you're the problem. Nothing more to add.

 

Every Level 70 is allowed to queue Master-Mode Flashpoints and this is the way it should be.

 

But maybe you can tell me one ability/skill, that is absolutly needed to finish Hammer Station Master-Mode, which a Level 75 Character has, and a Level 70 not yet?

 

Sure, it might take longer, because the level 70 will not crit so often, but that's all. If you do want to finish Hammer Station Master Mode in 10min instead of 20min, fine. But why stop there. Roll stealth class, and kick every non-stealther. You'll do it in 5min instead of 10min. Will you then come here and state, non stealth class should not queue master mode because they are "a waste of time and energy for others"?

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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Sure, it might take longer, because the level 70 will not crit so often, but that's all. If you do want to finish Hammer Station Master Mode in 10min instead of 20min, fine.

It's worse than that because it's more like 18 minutes versus 20.

 

Also, of course, a level 70 who knows their stuff is better than a level 75 that doesn't. 😉

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It's worse than that because it's more like 18 minutes versus 20.

 

Also, of course, a level 70 who knows their stuff is better than a level 75 that doesn't. 😉

 

Definitely, I've had underleveled players that knew their rotations and the fight mechanics better than level 75s with full 306 gear... its extremely rare, but its a nice find all the same.

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You do realize, that you are the problem?

 

MM FPs are downbolstered/downgraded to 70, except Meridian, which is a true Level 75 FP. If you need to have a Level 75, to do a Level 70 Flashpoint, you're the problem. Nothing more to add.

 

A level 75 is not 'downgraded' to level 70. Their endurance/master/power/health is capped, that is all. They are still a level 75, and need level 75 level stats. A level 75 'tank' using the old level 70 shield/absorb stat levels (and I get those squishy tanks a lot), may as well be using pure dps gear. The same goes for dps stats. If they are level 75 and still using the old level 70 stat thresholds, their dps will be considerably lower than an actual level 70 using similar gear.

 

Then there are the vetaran stacks. With 30 stacks you'll be doing considerably more damage/heals and have higher health which makes the flashpoints noticeably easier to do.

 

If it was just Hammer, then that would be fine, but underlevelled, undergeared players usually queue for 'all' for that group bonus. They pop into something like Korriban, die during the 2nd boss after three or four bomb stages, and then blame everyone but themselves for the wipe.

 

DPS matters. Tank mitigation matters. Mechanics matter, but if you're only doing 2k dps, then there is only so much that knowing the fights can help.

 

Undergeared and underlevelled players cannot do all the MM fp, and should not be queuing up for them with group-finder.

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A level 75 is not 'downgraded' to level 70. Their endurance/master/power/health is capped, that is all.

 

Dude, you realize that the downbolstered/downgraded part of my post does not only refer to the players? You might want to take a look the next time you are in Hammer Station Master Mode. Look at the enemies. Tell me their level. They are level 70.

 

Please tell me again, why you need to have a level 75 character to kill a level 70 mob. Please. I don't get it.

 

My opinion on this matter is, every player who demands an all level 75 group for a flashpoint with level 70 mobs in it, doesn't know anything about this game and needs to get gud.

 

And when you don't have the time to loose 5min because a level 73 is in your group. Maybe YOU shouldn't use the groupfinder. Go with your elite friends and clear it in 2minutes.

 

Undergeared and underlevelled players cannot do all the MM fp, and should not be queuing up for them with group-finder.

 

That's the point. They are not undergeared and underlevelled. You are all overleveld and overgeared. You are all carried by gear and level and need to learn how to kill a level 70 mob with a level 70 character.

 

When the second boss in the Korriban FP goes enrage, that has not automatically to do with the Level 70 player. It's all about players skill. Before i look at the Level 70 player, i would look at the second dps, Level 75/306 gear/+augments, why he isn't able to kill the boss.

 

I healed a level 72 pt-tank with item rating 49 (!) through Lost Island Master-Mode. And we didn't finish because a level 75 dps couldn't find the right spot to survive Sav-Rak smash. And if you demand an all 75 group for Master-Mode FPs, i think, you are this level 75 dps from Lost Island. Boy...was this dude yelling at the tank right from the start.

 

I onced failed to heal a level 70 sin-tank with level 60 gear through Mandalorion Raiders. But this had nothing to do with his level. He just refused to use defensive cooldowns, when 12 silver mobs/dogs jumped at him. Again, it's not the level, but the players skill, which makes the difference.

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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Under level 75 player has no place in MM content, its a waste of time and energy for others. Bolster simply doesn't do the trick. Stick to the VM until 75, it ain't a rocket science.

 

You can do virtually any of the MMFPs as a 70. The only trouble spots might be LI, and then some of the newer FPs. But the vast majority -- Esseles, D7, BP, etc etc. are all fine.

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You can do virtually any of the MMFPs as a 70. The only trouble spots might be LI, and then some of the newer FPs. But the vast majority -- Esseles, D7, BP, etc etc. are all fine.

 

A level 70 in level 70 gear is not a problem. When that level 70 becomes a level 71 to level 75 in the same gear, the stat changes mean that they will be WEAKER then when they were level 70. Do you even bother to look at your character sheets?

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Just going to ignore all the talk about the level stuff, if you don't mind, I'll leave that up to the experts :)

But going back to the original topic. I don't think giving a deserter lockout on being kicked would work.

It would definitely cause a lot more griefing.

What I can say is, if you are in a group, and someone is deliberately causing garbage, to purely get kicked, that goes against the ToS (none griefing, hassle, etc), right click on their name, and report them, get the whole group to do it. It won't be long before they stop, or better yet, get removed.

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Under level 75 player has no place in MM content, its a waste of time and energy for others. Bolster simply doesn't do the trick. Stick to the VM until 75, it ain't a rocket science.

 

lol this is the silliest thing I've ever read. You realize people under level 70 actually get boosted to higher stats. I've done MM FP's with a dps at level 50, and they had no problem doing proper DPS.

 

If you think only level 75's should do MM FP's, then you need to consider player skill. Skill is far more important.

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You need to be level 70 to use groupfinder for mmfp now, right? So level 50 with a premade is another thing.

 

For Group Finder yes you need to be 70, however if your in a group of 4, and walk into the FP yourself, you can be level 50 or higher. I wouldn't necessarily suggest bringing a full group of level 50's, but as I posted previously, it can be done with at least 1 level 50 in the group.

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For Group Finder yes you need to be 70, however if your in a group of 4, and walk into the FP yourself, you can be level 50 or higher. I wouldn't necessarily suggest bringing a full group of level 50's, but as I posted previously, it can be done with at least 1 level 50 in the group.

 

What exactly is 'it?'. Some MM fp can be solo'd, but that doesn't mean all of them can be.

 

I think the problem is that people are acting as though Master Mode flashpoints are all the same difficulty. You should also not compare pre-formed groups to group-finder groups. If you have one dps pulling 10 to 12k dps then you really don't need the second one to do any dps at all. With group-finder, you are more likely to get both inexperienced and undergeared (yes, it is undergeared if you are sub-306 now) players. One poor dps, or one squishy tank, or one poor healer, can be carried, but get 2 (or 3) in one group and even the medium-difficulty flashpoints will be a pain to get through.

 

All MM fp are not equal. A group that can do Hammer or Red Reaper will not necessarily be able to do Tython or Copero.

 

Pre-made groups should not be compared to group-finder groups.

 

If you make your own group then it is up to you what gear/levels you will run with.

 

Group-finder is different. It is very easy to get to basic 300 plus gear before queuing for the more difficult MM flashpoints. Yes, that 270 might be a fantastic, experienced, player. In most group-finder pops that 270 geared player is not very good, and usually absolutely clueless that they are being carried by the rest of the group.

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What exactly is 'it?'. Some MM fp can be solo'd, but that doesn't mean all of them can be.

 

I think the problem is that people are acting as though Master Mode flashpoints are all the same difficulty. You should also not compare pre-formed groups to group-finder groups. If you have one dps pulling 10 to 12k dps then you really don't need the second one to do any dps at all. With group-finder, you are more likely to get both inexperienced and undergeared (yes, it is undergeared if you are sub-306 now) players. One poor dps, or one squishy tank, or one poor healer, can be carried, but get 2 (or 3) in one group and even the medium-difficulty flashpoints will be a pain to get through.

 

All MM fp are not equal. A group that can do Hammer or Red Reaper will not necessarily be able to do Tython or Copero.

 

Pre-made groups should not be compared to group-finder groups.

 

If you make your own group then it is up to you what gear/levels you will run with.

 

Group-finder is different. It is very easy to get to basic 300 plus gear before queuing for the more difficult MM flashpoints. Yes, that 270 might be a fantastic, experienced, player. In most group-finder pops that 270 geared player is not very good, and usually absolutely clueless that they are being carried by the rest of the group.

 

No they aren't all equal, however saying everyone needs to be 75 is also nonsense. Would I bring a level 50 into the harder ones? probably not. Would I bring a level 70 into ANY Master Mode Flashpoint. without a doubt. If they show they can handle it I'm fine with that. I've brought many of my 70's into MM FP's over the last few weeks to level them to 75 that way. I happen to be an experienced player and know how to play, thus I do what I need to do even in the harder FP's.

 

For the record I did BH on a level 70 last week, as well as BoR, Traitor among the chiss, and Nathema conspiracy in the last 2 weeks on characters ranging from 70-73 when I entered.

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With group-finder, you are more likely to get both inexperienced and undergeared (yes, it is undergeared if you are sub-306 now) players.

 

306 is Nightmare Level Gear. And this guy needs YOU to have Nightmare Level Endgame Raiding Gear for BASIC Flashpoints. Level 70 Flashpoints. To kill Level 70 mobs. At this point, this is either embarrassing or trolling. Nothing more to add.

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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306 is Nightmare Level Gear. And this guy needs YOU to have Nightmare Level Endgame Raiding Gear for BASIC Flashpoints. Level 70 Flashpoints. To kill Level 70 mobs. At this point, this is either embarrassing or trolling. Nothing more to add.

 

Agreed. People do not need 306 gear or augments or even level 75 for Master Mode FP's. Those that demand such things are usually the type of players that get carried themselves.

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Not a troll, but I do regularly *pug the harder MM flashpoints and can usually spot a group that will fail as soon as I load in and spot-check their gear. I look at stats, not overall gear level, btw. Most times I'll give the group a chance, and most times I'm right and the group will wipe and fall apart. If not on the first boss, then on the last. Once in a while I'm wrong and the players with poor stats are experienced enough to offset them, but those times are very rare. More often than not the poorly geared players will lead to a big waste of time and an uncompleted flashpoint.

 

That could be bad RNG on my part, me being a really bad player, or simply a realistic pug experience.

 

*By pug I mean real, full pug groups. Not grouping up with 2 friends, getting a fourth with group-finder, and claiming you pugged the flashpoint.

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306 is Nightmare Level Gear. And this guy needs YOU to have Nightmare Level Endgame Raiding Gear for BASIC Flashpoints. Level 70 Flashpoints. To kill Level 70 mobs. At this point, this is either embarrassing or trolling. Nothing more to add.

No, considering how easy it is to get 306 gear, it's now considered 'standard' gear (imho).

That is, I agree that 306 is not always 'needed', but to consider it somehow to be super high-end gear is ridiculous.

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That is, I agree that 306 is not always 'needed', but to consider it somehow to be super high-end gear is ridiculous.

 

Yep. There's no reason not to be 306, especially if you have even a single character that's already 306, but most FPs will be fine if you have one or two group members who aren't.

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I don't know about others, but when 6.0 came out I was doing MM FP's with all 4 in group in only 268 gear. So the fact people would even consider kicking someone just because they don't have 306 gear is just dumb.

 

Yes 306 is easy to get with a little work, however it sure isn't needed for any MM FP.

Edited by Toraak
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