Hello @ All,

 

I wont to know how imprtant accurcy is in NIM Content for tanks. We have DPS issues at Dashrode. We get him allwayes at 5%. We reach that value only when both tanks and both healer get portet.

 

1) I am playing an Guardian and i have avarage ~730 DPS throught the fight. Is that enought?

 

2) Should i exchange some of my deffstats to offensive stats like power or ap?

 

3) Or shoud i go for accuracy?

 

Cheers

I'm no specialist of tanks, but I will give you my 2 cents anyway :

 

While a bit more dps is always a good thing, there is no way imo that it should be detrimental to your specialized tanking stats. If you fall short of 5%, it is the dps classes of your group who should progress, not you who should dps significantly more. As a side note, the end of Dashroode fight in NIM should see every player that was NOT teleported use their personnal environmental shield and, if available, Snipers/Gunslinger's shield on the raid.

 

Concerning Accuracy, one of our tanks regularly ask the dps to hold on for a few seconds before launching their alpha, because his 93% accuracy can mean a Resist on his first taunt. This is maybe one reason to push Accuracy a bit further, but imo you shouldn't do it for the sole purpose of a small increase in your own dps.

Our healers usually DPS a bit on that fight.

Scoundrels can get up to 900 DPS when they help with the adds and keep DoTs on the boss.

Tank DPS about 1000 should be a good value.

Concerning Accuracy, one of our tanks regularly ask the dps to hold on for a few seconds before launching their alpha, because his 93% accuracy can mean a Resist on his first taunt. This is maybe one reason to push Accuracy a bit further, but imo you shouldn't do it for the sole purpose of a small increase in your own dps.

Thank you for that hint. I recognised that several times, so i had to use my secound taunt. I was wondering, why my taunt didn't work.

 

Our healers usually DPS a bit on that fight.

Scoundrels can get up to 900 DPS when they help with the adds and keep DoTs on the boss.

Tank DPS about 1000 should be a good value.

To drive 1000 dps i have to use offensive equip, i think. Can you post me some torparse results of that dps, especially from your tank? I only manage to reach 870 max dps on a dummy with 40 apm, where i dont get kicked or have to run to the raid. My eqip is at lvl 72 with one 75 peace.

Edited September 13, 2013 by sergos

Taunts cannot miss. This was corrected in a patch.

 

 

Also tank DPS on dummy has nothing to do with tank DPS on boss fight so don't compared that as if you are not actively tanking you are focus-starved.

 

I found some log from myself from couple of attempts at him last Sunday http://www.torparse.com/a/416387 Unfortunately no kill due to healing issues. DPS is oscillating around 900 DPS. My guardian is typically 50-80DPS lower then my shadow, unfortunately I don't have guardian parse from NiM.

Edited September 13, 2013 by AAAAzrael

I beg you to differ, it happened again very recently.

 

Now, if i understood my tank right, his problem is not Miss, but built-in boss Resistance that supposedly can be partially overcome only through superior Accuracy.

 

Anyway, as I said, i'm no tank specialist.

To drive 1000 dps i have to use offensive equip, i think. Can you post me some torparse results of that dps, especially from your tank? I only manage to reach 870 max dps on a dummy with 40 apm, where i dont get kicked or have to run to the raid. My eqip is at lvl 72 with one 75 peace.

 

Well 1000 might have been a bit high.

Here is our group parse from last night:

http://www.torparse.com/g/8216

I know that our other tank who was not in that parse has higher DPS though, in the 900 area definitely. I think DPS is so high because of guardian AoE with force sweep and such.

I know that both tanks have around 95% accuracy, 3% with spec, 1% through legacy and 1 acc enhancement.

Edit: Nvm, I found a log from our other tank on NM:

http://www.torparse.com/a/412772/5/0/Damage+Dealt

Keep in mind that the tank who takes the shield has significantly lower DPSs as he cannot DPS while moving the boss to the next generator.

 

Still, I would say that DPS is not your concern, let the DDs figure that out. It's more about the positioning of the boss so all DPS can go full out on damage without being kicked around. We usually put the tanks against the generators with the DDs up against the rock. The first wave of adds on the generator gets mass CC'd until the second wave arrives and then it's quadruple freighter flyby on them. This way DPS can all focus on boss damage all the time.

Edited September 13, 2013 by atschai

I beg you to differ, it happened again very recently.

 

Now, if i understood my tank right, his problem is not Miss, but built-in boss Resistance that supposedly can be partially overcome only through superior Accuracy.

 

Anyway, as I said, i'm no tank specialist.

 

I would rather think that missed taunt to be some kind of false cooldown/no activation thing then actual miss but you would have to look at the combat log.

 

Anyway taunts are not the issue and certainly not in Dash fight As adds cannot be taunted on NiM both tanks have 2 taunts to use if needed and they are only maybe needed when tank is first knocked into the air.

The first wave of adds on the generator gets mass CC'd until the second wave arrives and then it's quadruple freighter flyby on them. This way DPS can all focus on boss damage all the time.

 

Wow that is nice idea. Thanks!

BTW: I am pretty sure there is somewhere on this forum mathematical explanation of why power gives more return in terms of DPS the accuracy for tanks and that if absolutely more DPS from a tank is needed that it's worth to swap in power crystal/relics and not accuracy.

DPS is a concern for the entire raid in NiM operations, juggs do have the lowest here since I can get 1100-1200 on my assassin but that's because wither/discharge hit 3 targets most of the time. The fight can be basically healed by 1 healer while the other does dps and only heals when needed or when someone made a mistake or shield gen went up too slow etc...

First of all thank at all for that realy good hints and torparse links.

 

What i figured out ist that i can put one point in precision in the skill tree. The other point is that i have to change my rotation and use more often slash instead of force sweep, because it deals the same dmg but have lower energy costs and have no cd. Third thing is that i can use ap proc relic instead of using a defensive relic. At the last point i am not sure if i realy should do that.

1) I am playing an Guardian and i have avarage ~730 DPS throught the fight. Is that enought?

 

730 DPS sounds low. If you are in full 72s, you should do more than that. As an example I'm a jugg tank doing NiM content and I usually average between 900-1200 dps during boss fights. This is in full tanking gear (ie endurance crystal, guardian hilt / armoring etc). How much DPS I put out relates to if there are boss switches / how long I get to stay on the boss, as rage becomes and issue when I'm not tanking the boss.

 

2) Should i exchange some of my deffstats to offensive stats like power or ap?

 

Definitively no. You are a tank, and you should gear as a tank. If DPS is the issue, then your damage dealers should take a look at their rotation and set up, not you. Btw, what is their DPS? A lot of the fights in NiM have DPS checks.

 

3) Or shoud i go for accuracy?

 

Again no. Taunts always hits, and so does your aggro-building attacks, ie. Smash / Chrushing Blow / Retaliation / Ravage / Backhand.

730 DPS sounds low. If you are in full 72s, you should do more than that. As an example I'm a jugg tank doing NiM content and I usually average between 900-1200 dps during boss fights. This is in full tanking gear (ie endurance crystal, guardian hilt / armoring etc). How much DPS I put out relates to if there are boss switches / how long I get to stay on the boss, as rage becomes and issue when I'm not tanking the boss.

 

Definitively no. You are a tank, and you should gear as a tank. If DPS is the issue, then your damage dealers should take a look at their rotation and set up, not you. Btw, what is their DPS? A lot of the fights in NiM have DPS checks.

 

Again no. Taunts always hits, and so does your aggro-building attacks, ie. Smash / Chrushing Blow / Retaliation / Ravage / Backhand.

 

I dont have any aggro issues. Dmg of our DDs is between 2,4k - 2,7k DPS.

Do u use dmg trinkets or ap relics? What is your apm? Can u send me a torparselink? Maybe you can send me a pm or post it here how you get that high dps. Some tipps on rotatioin or keybinds on mous and keyboard?

Edited September 13, 2013 by sergos

I dont have any aggro issues. Dmg of our DDs is between 2,4k - 2,7k DPS.

Do u use dmg trinkets or ap relics? What is your apm? Can u send me a torparselink? Maybe you can send me a pm or post it here how you get that high dps. Some tipps on rotatioin or keybinds on mous and keyboard?

 

I have a jugg alt and the rotation is basically using everything on cooldown and using your basic attack + the attack that costs 2 rage as often as possible. Try to use smash/force scream with 3 stacks to save rage for more dps. Apm isn't a great tool to compare. Dps per fight and the bonus damage from power/str is better.

I dont have any aggro issues. Dmg of our DDs is between 2,4k - 2,7k DPS.

Do u use dmg trinkets or ap relics? What is your apm? Can u send me a torparselink? Maybe you can send me a pm or post it here how you get that high dps. Some tipps on rotatioin or keybinds on mous and keyboard?

 

Actually, maybe it's best if we get to see a group torparse link from your group. If you stick to good positioning then you're rooting out every other problem except for low DPS issues.

If you are having Dps issues, Solo tank it? We've Done it since day one. We don't even use the forth generator half of the time.

 

Also as a Sin/Jugg Tank who has cleared all current NiM Content and has titles, I would not what so ever budget accuracy into my gear. If your dps are having dps issues your issues is with your dps not the 100 or so dps more u could bring as a tank.

Accuracy isn't going to help you very much with your DPS as a tank. It's a multiplicative stat, and since tank DPS is already quite low, the occasional miss doesn't actually have a very significant effect over time.

 

Your best bet is to push your damage dealers a bit more. My advice in no particular order:

 

• Practice getting back from the Sandstorm as quickly as possible. There is no position which requires more than 40 seconds to return, and most require 30 seconds or less. All classes and specs are capable of this.
  
• If you're using Snipers, make sure they're using Entrench during the channeled moments of their rotation whenever it's up.
  
• Move quickly between shield points. Keep damage up as much as you can, but the priority is speed.
  
• Only put a single DPS on Xuvva duty, and then only part-time. Especially if you have Flyby available to you, half of a DPS should be more than sufficient. Experiment with giving the Xuvvas less and less attention until they eat the shield. Spend as little time on them as possible. Ignore them for most of the 4th shield.
  
• Have your healers DPS a little. Thanks to the SA double-proc bug, it will actually help their healing to DoT the boss periodically (unless they're a merc). A single shield is trivial to solo-heal. Have one of your healers DPS full-time in the fourth shield. I've actually healed this fight successfully with a sage who spent nearly *all* of her time DPSing. It's not that terrible if you have decent tanks, good positioning and proper Womp Rat management.
  

 

If all else fails, the solo tanking suggestion is a pretty good one.

 

The DPS check on this fight *is* fairly hard. My guild has some very high parsers in our DPS group (all except our Focus Sentinel are over 3k, and one is at 3.2k), and we still consistently come right down to the wire. We can kill him before the shield falls in the fourth position, but it's close. Our first few kills happened well after the shield fell, relying on unused personal shield orbs and gunslinger raid shields.

 

If you're consistently getting him to 5%, then you've seriously got the fight. Just sharpen up on a few things (especially the Sandstorm return and a bit of healer DPS) and you'll down him.

Edited September 13, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

Your DPS are using Adrenals right?

 

Sounds simple, but you'd be surprised how many don't.

In my opinion tanks need to do their job heals do theirs and dps do theirs...im not gonna drop a bunch of mitigation or endurance on my TANK to deal more damage. also healers can put AoEs down or dots but i wouldnt do much more...its your dps that need to work harder or get more gear. Only thing i do on dash'roode on my sin tank (when offtanking) put my dots on and use all my best damage abilitys until its my turn to taunt...wich im sure you are doing:)

I dont have any aggro issues. Dmg of our DDs is between 2,4k - 2,7k DPS.

Do u use dmg trinkets or ap relics? What is your apm? Can u send me a torparselink? Maybe you can send me a pm or post it here how you get that high dps. Some tipps on rotatioin or keybinds on mous and keyboard?

 

No, I don't use any damge relics / trinkets / adrenals. I use 2 proc relics (the defense and the absorb one) and an absorb adrenal.

 

What do you mean by a "torparse link"? You want me to upload a combat log?

 

My opening rotation is Enrage -> Saber Throw -> Charge -> Smash -> Crushing Blow -> Retaliation -> Backhand -> Ravage -> (you can throw in a Taunt here if you want) -> Retaliation (if procced) -> Choke -> Force Scream -> Sundering Assault

 

After that it's a priority system where you use abilities when they are off CD. I basically use Retaliation the moment it is off CD. My priority is:

• Retalition
  
• Crushing Blow
  
• Ravage
  
• Smash
  

 

Also use Enrage on CD and use Vicious Slash whenever you have rage to spare. A lot of people use Sundering Assault whenever it's off CD, but I don't. It doesn't do any good damage (and doesn't build that much threat), I used it when I need rage.

 

EDIT: And a DPS of 2.4-2.7k for damage dealers on the operations dummy (or even on a boss in NiM) is pretty low. They need to be closer to 3k on the operations dummy.

Edited September 14, 2013 by HBCentaurion

I think, we have chosen wrong tactics. We tank the boss at the wall and not at the generator. There we loose a lot of AOE dmg brougt throu the adds. I have also skilled accuracy und changed my endurance crystals to ap crystals. After that i have tested my dmg on the dummy and reached 950 dps. In the next id i will test it on the boss. Maybe we will also change a tank against one DD. Edited September 15, 2013 by sergos

I assume you are in full underworld since you are doing NiM. As has been mentioned in this thread, you should not need to change your tanking stats for power etc. Just work on your rotation. I did Kephess NiM yesterday and was close to 1.3k DPS every time.

I assume you are in full underworld since you are doing NiM. As has been mentioned in this thread, you should not need to change your tanking stats for power etc. Just work on your rotation. I did Kephess NiM yesterday and was close to 1.3k DPS every time.

 

Using less Sundering Assault and more often Vicious Slash is a realy good hint. It is impossible to test my rotation on a dummy because of low rage/focus.

Im playing the same rotation as you, with one important change, that i have Vicious Slash in it. I will suspend it from my rotation.

Edited September 16, 2013 by sergos

I don't see this having been mentioned, but if whoever has picked up the generator holds it till there are a few seconds left on the timer before plugging it in again at the new spot, you can pick up some DPS time.

 

Another small spot of DPS is on the first position, if you kill the first set of adds, and ignore the second, there is not enough time for them to kill the generator before it runs out. They can be dragged to the next spot, and aoed down on the boss.

 

I have tanked several of the Nightmare bosses on my Vanguard alt. I've never worried about my DPS. If you are hitting enrage, (a mechanical enrage in this case), either your DPS is low, or something about your strat has reduced your time on target. Looking to tanks for DPS always seems a little suspect, though I do understand that in this case it's a proactive tank looking to push his group over the top.

 

That being said, anything you can do to increase your DPS without losing mitigation is great. It's when people start to actually lose mitigation that I start to raise my eyebrows.

Edited September 17, 2013 by izmirtheastarach