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Anyone ever PUG Operations?


lightSaberAddiCt's Avatar


lightSaberAddiCt
02.27.2015 , 01:59 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyovarde View Post
I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?
My guess, the same people that just think BH is the only class for everything, and it cant be done with sorcerer heals or melee dps.

Piene's Avatar


Piene
02.27.2015 , 08:20 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyovarde View Post
I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?
No idea about ravagers (haven't done it yet), but I pugged Temple a few times now - some wipes on the 3rd boss, but that's about it, the rest is absolutely puggable.
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Mavolio's Avatar


Mavolio
03.01.2015 , 11:01 AM | #23
It's not that finding a P.U.G. to get an Ops grouping that is the problem, they're a dime a dozen on any server, it's getting past the B.S. achievement wall that a lot of the insecure swartz stroking morons running the P.U.G.s demands that you link to get into their group. TBH, if you know how NOT to stand in stupid and stay focused on target of target, linking achievements is moot and unnecessary.

psikofunkster's Avatar


psikofunkster
03.02.2015 , 11:38 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dustile View Post
I can never find a group for Operations. It's like I'm the only one looking to PUG. SM queue? forget it. I've waited 4 hours and never got a pop. No one is ever looking for groups in general chat either? I'm on Harbinger. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. It's so frustrating! I hit 60 and now I have nothing to do cause I can't PUG Operations. =( Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'm already a Tank =P. Yeah, I wait 4 hours as a Tank and don't get a pop. I don't know what to do, but if i can't figure it out I'll have to play something else but I love SWTOR!
and Harbinger its supposed to be the most populated server in game currently....geez....

Suggestion: Playing another game? that's what ill be doing. Yeah i loved swtor too but nowadays i just spend a lot of time watching the screen monitor doing nothing.

Also offering just a stupid purple crystal to stay as a sub on March, ha ha good one EA but if that serves you well good for you, for me just don't work im not that buyable.

Shwarzchild's Avatar


Shwarzchild
03.02.2015 , 12:28 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by psikofunkster View Post
and Harbinger its supposed to be the most populated server in game currently....geez....

Suggestion: Playing another game? that's what ill be doing. Yeah i loved swtor too but nowadays i just spend a lot of time watching the screen monitor doing nothing.

Also offering just a stupid purple crystal to stay as a sub on March, ha ha good one EA but if that serves you well good for you, for me just don't work im not that buyable.
Um...see you next December for the next expac maybe? You sound like you need a break.

psikofunkster's Avatar


psikofunkster
03.02.2015 , 08:21 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Shwarzchild View Post
Um...see you next December for the next expac maybe? You sound like you need a break.
Nah i don't need it i'm obligued to take it because the current state of game.

I have a good guild with one of my toons, we run both new ops 16sm each week, then we do sec boss hm ravagers, well we have wiped that boss for an entire month, apparently there are players who like to do that, rinse and repeat, over and over again, i just can't take it anymore for me that's not fun anymore, i've completed all the aspects of the new expansion already so...I won't be expending an entire year doing the same 2 operations over and over again.

MagicTerror's Avatar


MagicTerror
12.30.2018 , 05:31 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
The problem is, that the advice "join a guild and your problem is solved" removes even more players from "the PUG scene", making it completely non-existent in the end.

Is this what people want ? No more PUGs ?

It's a bit like saying "you've got troubles as an Republic player in PvP ? Roll Imp instead !" , this creating an MASSIVE inbalance towards Empire in PvP ...
Well, 3 years later and I think it is what I want.
Got back into raiding for ops, been doing it for 2 months, and I can tell you the few groups that start from scratch on fleet (with the one dps "LFM 3D 2H 2T") and succeed in getting the group usually bomb and fall apart, because we find the group doesn't know how to do the most basic things like arrange an ops frame or keep track of what role everyone is, let alone fight bosses harder than KP/EV. One or two confused players can be handled, but there's a critical mass, and on some fights even one dps not knowing what to do or listening to instructions can end up wiping the raid several times, wasting the rest of the group's afternoon trying to teach them. The few "pugs" that spam once or twice to fill their last spot are just guild runs who need a substitute player, and those are mostly guaranteed to go smoothly.
Anyone who takes ops seriously enough to know a fight beforehand, or at least adapt to phase shifts without screwing the fight has already found a guild with ops leaders who take everyone not sleeping through the fight seriously. They want group members who can be guaranteed to stick through an op at a given time apart from emergencies, an organized effort to put together prepared groups for harder content, and a forum to provide guides so that everyone in the group is expected to read them. That's easily going to happen with a guild, not a pug who's just drawn by the gf bolster and reward each week.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
12.31.2018 , 05:23 AM | #28
Well, people are taught now in guilds, and everyone is afraid of PUgs, because they are not taught.

Why don't people go out into PUG territory and teach people there ?

After some time, a critical mass of knowledge-infused people should exist.
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Exocor's Avatar


Exocor
12.31.2018 , 12:05 PM | #29
As a raid leader and someone who is regularly starting groups from scratch, I can say that I am normally looking for people being capable of doing the stuff I am searching for. Xeno 16m? Everyone can come as long as I have a few people that I know are capable of doing the job (one heal, one tank and one-two dps). TFB 8m MM? I'm obviously asking for cheevos - and, to be honest, I know 90% of the people being capable of raiding Master Mode Operations on my server.

My number one priority is, to get the Operation finished.

In general, there are three things a raid leader must have:
- knowledge of the encounter/the operation, for all roles (DPS, Heal, Tank)
- the ability to judge everyone in your group
These two things are necessary to delegate tasks to people that are capable of executing them - these players don't necessarily have to know the operation, they just need to be able to do stuff (like know what an interrupt/knockback/cc/whatever is.

And the third thing is the most important part.
- have something alongside you you can trust, who is the "second in command".
You really need someone you can trust with difficult tasks, especially if you have one or more unexperienced players in your group. This player also supports you in difficult decisions.
You don't necessarily need someone like this - if you have the balls to build a group without anyone you know, have fun. but I don't recommend it.

A final, important advice: If you don't know the operation, playing as a DPS and don't know what taunt or green abilities are doing and you are alone, without friends helping you run an operation: Don't start a group. it's simple as that.
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Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
12.31.2018 , 04:58 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Well, people are taught now in guilds, and everyone is afraid of PUgs, because they are not taught.

Why don't people go out into PUG territory and teach people there ?

After some time, a critical mass of knowledge-infused people should exist.
The critical mass won't exist since there are too many players not really interested in learning. And there are always new players starting with the game.
Just this morning, Gods of the Machine in GF.
Already had 6 players ready to go, lacking only a player with taunt ability and a random role. The lead was ready to explain and everything.
We didn't even get started.
Reasons:
Player1: Don't know the ops, how long will it take?
Leader explaining one and a half hour, maybe more due to necessary explanations.
Player1 has left the group.
Healer A, already half decked in the new Ossus gear starts to have a go at the group, minimum gear required for Gods being 246 or the group was doomed, he'd need a really really capable and well equipped co healer or the group would wipe endlessly. He was an expert, knowing what he was talking about since last time his group died at boss three until they gave up...
Group lead and experienced players (with gods veteran clear) explaining about bolster and someone with some clue about group play and healing being enough...
Healer A and is DPS friend not knowing the ops have left the group.
Another player loosing motivation to wait for replacements again, after the group almost had been full and the group officially broke up.
That does happen more and more often. The more difficult the ops being in GF and the less are groups forming anyway, no matter if there are explanations advertised or not. Lot's of players simply don't want to put in the effort of maybe using voice chat to get directions, to follow some simple mechanics, to have to meet some minimal requirements for what to do with a role or class.

As for teaching in general, my guild tried to motivate more players for other veteran ops than KP and EV.
Over weeks we we searching for players without experience on prime time Saturday evening. Expectations to have seen the story mode once, average gear rating of 236 and some basic class knowledge, for we wanted to teach veteran ops mechanics not start from total zero.
In the end we had exact 3 players who really were new and eager to learn since august, they still join occasionally, the rest were long time veteran players who initially thought to help a group of inexperienced players there too.
Since no one else answered our calls, we then ran together most of the time, having smooth but rather boring runs. But if no one else wants...

There are always two sides, those who teach, but also those who want to learn.
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