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Mace Windu's Choice on the Masters in EP III


Slowpokeking

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According to the novel, the ones he picked were the best swordsmen on Coruscant. However both in the novel and the movie, they were killed by Palpatine quickly. I really think they didn't form a efficient team. Palpatine killed 2 easily before they were able to make any useful moves. Looks like the small space of the office, even limited their moves.

 

Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar's Form were not known, Fisto is Shii-Cho, which is not good in dueling.

 

I think he should have picked Shaak Ti because her Makashi is good in lightsaber combat and does not require big space to use. Mace Windu should serve as the "tank", use his Vaapad to meet head on head with Palpatine, when the rest of them try to find chances to take him down.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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It still wouldn't have mattered, whoever he took had no chance against Palpatine. In fact none of them did, Mace only survived due to Vapaad without that he would have been squashed like the others.

 

Mace could use his Vapaad to block Sidious' attack, draw his focus so others would have chance to attack Palpatine. That's what a team is.

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Mace Windu picked a team that he had worked with on other occasions during the war. However, the ROTS Visual Dictionary points out that Mace likely would have chosen Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Yoda if they were available.

 

However, any Jedi other than him and Yoda are literally fodder for Sidious. The situation, the environment, and Sidious being Sidious would have resulted in the same event if he had brought anybody else that was not Yoda.

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Mace Windu picked a team that he had worked with on other occasions during the war. However, the ROTS Visual Dictionary points out that Mace likely would have chosen Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Yoda if they were available.

 

However, any Jedi other than him and Yoda are literally fodder for Sidious. The situation, the environment, and Sidious being Sidious would have resulted in the same event if he had brought anybody else that was not Yoda.

 

This team would not work well at all.

 

Qui Gon Jinn and Yoda both uses Ataru, which require great space, but the office is too small for 5 people to fight, especially they could not hurt others. It would greatly limit their moves. Not enough space was one of the reasons Qui Gon got killed by Maul. Obi Wan's Soresu is only good for defense, so it would not help much either when the other 3 could not form efficient attack against Sidious due to the space.

 

Windu could take a fight with Sidious, so he should come forward and protect the others, gave them time to retreat and counterattack, they were a team, not going 1 by 1.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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This team would not work well at all.

 

Qui Gon Jinn and Yoda both uses Ataru, which require great space, but the office is too small for 5 people to fight, especially they could not hurt others. It would greatly limit their moves. Not enough space was one of the reasons Qui Gon got killed by Maul.

 

Windu could take a fight with Sidious, so he should come forward and protect the others, gave them time to retreat and counterattack, they were a team, not going 1 by 1.

 

I never said the team was good, just that the Dictionary implies that that team would be his go to team if they were available.

 

The battle would go the same way no matter who he brought with him unless he brought Yoda. George Lucas practically stated this.

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I never said the team was good, just that the Dictionary implies that that team would be his go to team if they were available.

 

The battle would go the same way no matter who he brought with him unless he brought Yoda. George Lucas practically stated this.

 

Not if he could choose the right tactic, all he needs to do is stick with Sidious, try to block his attack whenever Sidious tried to attack anyone, at the same time the others will attack Sidious from different angle, force him to defend. It's like a tank+DPS group.

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Not if he could choose the right tactic, all he needs to do is stick with Sidious, try to block his attack whenever Sidious tried to attack anyone, at the same time the others will attack Sidious from different angle, force him to defend. It's like a tank+DPS group.

 

Assuming that the team was properly prepared, but then that didn't help the B-Team.

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Not if he could choose the right tactic, all he needs to do is stick with Sidious, try to block his attack whenever Sidious tried to attack anyone, at the same time the others will attack Sidious from different angle, force him to defend. It's like a tank+DPS group.
If Windu attempted to defend his allies while fighting Sidious he would over-extend himself and likely get himself killed. Regardless the outcome would have been the same. The first few Jedi were felled simply because they did not react fast enough, no other Jedi accept Yoda and perhaps Kenobi would have fared any better against Sidious Force speed.

 

By this point Fisto and Windu had gotten their act together and took on Sidious simultaneously, Fisto's more defensive posture allowed him to take the brunt of Sidious' assault and Windu attack him at the same time, but despite this Sidious still managed to kill Fisto.

 

If what your suggesting happened, Sidious would have fended off Windu while felling the surrounding Jedi one by one, because they simply could not compete with his skill. I also wouldn't attempt to draw comparisons with game mechanics, it doesn't transfer, because Sidious would force the duel on his own terms, not theirs.

Edited by Beniboybling
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If Windu attempted to defend his allies while fighting Sidious he would over-extend himself and likely get himself killed. Regardless the outcome would have been the same. The first few Jedi were felled simply because they did not react fast enough, no other Jedi accept Yoda and perhaps Kenobi would have fared any better against Sidious Force speed.

 

By this point Fisto and Windu had gotten their act together and took on Sidious simultaneously, Fisto's more defensive posture allowed him to take the brunt of Sidious' assault and Windu attack him at the same time, but despite this Sidious still managed to kill Fisto.

 

If what your suggesting happened, Sidious would have fended off Windu while felling the surrounding Jedi one by one, because they simply could not compete with his skill. I also wouldn't attempt to draw comparisons with game mechanics, it doesn't transfer, because Sidious would force the duel on his own terms, not theirs.

 

No, his Vaapad could reflect Sidious' power, including strength and speed. At the same time the others would attack Sidious when Windu draw his focus. Windu didn't attack Sidious, he chose to dodge, thus gave Sidious the chance to kill Fisto.

 

It's not a one on one battle, it's teamwork.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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No, his Vaapad could reflect Sidious' power, including strength and speed. At the same time the others would attack Sidious when Windu draw his focus. Windu didn't attack Sidious, he chose to dodge, thus gave Sidious the chance to kill Fisto.

 

It's not a one on one battle, it's teamwork.

And how exactly would Windu draw his focus? With a taunt? Sidious can attack whoever he likes whenever he likes, and he'll start by going with the weak links while simultaneously holding off. Noting Windu didn't move out of the way while Sidious took on Fisto, they took him on
, attack him from multiple angles, yet Fisto still died.

 

Now yes, Vaapad increases strength and speed, but only so it matches Sidious' power. Add defending other Jedi into that equation and suddenly Windu becomes more exposed. Just like Sidious became exposed when Windu 'forced' him onto the ledge, forcing Sidious to divert some of his energy to keep a footing.

 

Also taking into account that in the end, two would still have died to Sidious' Force speed. Which kinda throws teamwork out of the Windu (yes, that pun was intended.)

Edited by Beniboybling
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He should have brought jar jar with him to distract & annoy sidious....only then would he have succeeded lol.

 

Seriously tho, It wouldn't have mattered who he brought with him (with the exception of Yoda) he was doomed to fail. Between sidious' power & control of the dark side, & the ultimate wildcard of a very dangerous & emotional Anakin Skywalker. There wasn't much that could have changed the outcome.

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And how exactly would Windu draw his focus? With a taunt? Sidious can attack whoever he likes whenever he likes, and he'll start by going with the weak links while simultaneously holding off. Noting Windu didn't move out of the way while Sidious took on Fisto, they took him on
, attack him from multiple angles, yet Fisto still died.

 

Now yes, Vaapad increases strength and speed, but only so it matches Sidious' power. Add defending other Jedi into that equation and suddenly Windu becomes more exposed. Just like Sidious became exposed when Windu 'forced' him onto the ledge, forcing Sidious to divert some of his energy to keep a footing.

 

Also taking into account that in the end, two would still have died to Sidious' Force speed. Which kinda throws teamwork out of the Windu (yes, that pun was intended.)

 

Windu will simply follow him, stick with him, and block his attack whenever, not dodge his attack to give him chance to kill others, which was exactly what happened in the video. Obi Wan and Anakin is a good example, Obi Wan used Soresu to defend Anakin from Dooku, meanwhile Anakin attack with Djem So's full power.

 

It does match, and do not forget there are others, if Palpatine tries to focus on Windu, the others will attack him from different angles so he could not extend his full power, that's what teamwork is.

 

The two got killed because Windu did nothing, he should pay attention and block the attack from Sidious when he was trying to kill the first two.

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One thing that I think may have delayed the death of the first two for a while would be if they had confronted Palpatine in a more open space. Being in a room as small as his office really didn't help at all. If they'd had more room to spread out, then those two might not have died so qucikly. They still would have died because Palpatine was just that strong in the Dark Side, but maybe they or Mace or the other one might have been able to use the extra time to wound Palpatine a little and slow him down.
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Windu will simply follow him, stick with him, and block his attack whenever, not dodge his attack to give him chance to kill others, which was exactly what happened in the video. Obi Wan and Anakin is a good example, Obi Wan used Soresu to defend Anakin from Dooku, meanwhile Anakin attack with Djem So's full power.

 

It does match, and do not forget there are others, if Palpatine tries to focus on Windu, the others will attack him from different angles so he could not extend his full power, that's what teamwork is.

 

The two got killed because Windu did nothing, he should pay attention and block the attack from Sidious when he was trying to kill the first two.

If your going to ignore the evidence in front of you then fine, but the fact remains that Sidious is perfectly capable of taking Windu and another highly skilled Jedi on simultaneously with little difficulty. Windu did not dodge or retreat, he was as stuck in that brief duel as Fisto was but he simply wasn't fast enough to fend off Sidious and defend Fisto at the same time. Vaapad only afforded him the ability to hold off Sidious alone.

 

Teamwork is all well and good, but when your teammates just can't keep up, it won't get you anywhere. And simply put Sidious was leagues ahead of any Jedi on the Council bar Yoda and Windu in terms of power and skill. Windu would have his hands full defending a bunch of novices (in comparison with Sidious) who would quickly fall as soon as Sidious applied some pressure. Not even that, Fisto was taking down with an off hand flourish as Sidious moved to intercept Windu's attack. There is nothing Windu could have done to prevent that, he can't be everywhere at once.

 

As for your final paragraph, that's just silly. You can't just say "oh well Windu should have done this" - he didn't, and know matter who those Jedi where, he wouldn't have in any situation. No amount of teamwork or tactics could have prepared him for the sheer speed and efficiency of Sidious attack. Even if Windu had attempted to defend them he would have been to late. He killed them in seconds, because they were all (Windu included) just too slow.

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One thing that I think may have delayed the death of the first two for a while would be if they had confronted Palpatine in a more open space. Being in a room as small as his office really didn't help at all. If they'd had more room to spread out, then those two might not have died so qucikly. They still would have died because Palpatine was just that strong in the Dark Side, but maybe they or Mace or the other one might have been able to use the extra time to wound Palpatine a little and slow him down.
I'm not sure it would have made a difference, the Jedi didn't even move or block his attacks, they weren't pushed back into a corner, they just stood their and died. The movie doesn't potray it all too well but just imagine Sidious moving at twice the speed and it makes more sense. It probably would have given Fisto a better chance however.

 

EDIT: The main issue here is that only Windu and Yoda are fast enough to clash blades with him. Any other Jedi is just too slow, so even if those Jedi had survived they would have been quickly cut down, the fight would have moved to fast for them. Though I do wonder how Kenobi would have fared...

Edited by Beniboybling
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I'm not sure it would have made a difference, the Jedi didn't even move or block his attacks, they weren't pushed back into a corner, they just stood their and died. The movie doesn't potray it all too well but just imagine Sidious moving at twice the speed and it makes more sense. It probably would have given Fisto a better chance however.

 

EDIT: The main issue here is that only Windu and Yoda are fast enough to clash blades with him. Any other Jedi is just too slow, so even if those Jedi had survived they would have been quickly cut down, the fight would have moved to fast for them. Though I do wonder how Kenobi would have fared...

 

Obi-Wan would have died just the same remember what Yoda said?

 

"Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

 

"To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

 

So really yes...Yoda and Mace(with Vapaad) were the only ones able to fight against Sidious. The only other person I could see fighting against Sidious during the time, is Anakin and this is only because he is the Will of The Force in simple terms and thus destiny would have been able to seek victory....among also well he was pretty much very powerful anyway.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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The only other person I could see fighting against Sidious during the time, is Anakin and this is only because he is the Will of The Force in simple terms and thus destiny would have been able to seek victory....among also well he was pretty much very powerful anyway.

 

Yeah, if Mace had taken Anakin with him instead of telling him to stay at the Temple, Palpatine would have had to come up with Corruption Plan B on the spot. He wouldn't have been able to play the "This is an assassination! They're trying to destroy democracy!" card in that case since the fight that Anakin showed up for the end of only broke out when he attacked the Jedi. With Anakin there as part of the Jedi team, Palpatine would've had to pull quite the rabbit out of his hat. If he'd attacked the Jedi like he did in the movie, Anakin would have gone full-bore into the fight on their side which would have ended any hope of turning the Chosen One to the Dark Side. Giving into his anger during the fight might still have caused Anakin to fall, but with him and Mace working together, there probably wouldn't have been a living Sith Lord left afterwards to teach him.

 

No, if Anakin had gone with the team, the Chancellor would need to improvise. And I'm just not devious enough to come up with a plan he could use that would have worked. :cool:

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Obi-Wan would have died just the same remember what Yoda said?

 

"Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

 

"To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

 

So really yes...Yoda and Mace(with Vapaad) were the only ones able to fight against Sidious. The only other person I could see fighting against Sidious during the time, is Anakin and this is only because he is the Will of The Force in simple terms and thus destiny would have been able to seek victory....among also well he was pretty much very powerful anyway.

Well I don't expect that Kenobi would have one, but would he had died after a few seconds? Or would he have held out for a time?
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Well I don't expect that Kenobi would have one, but would he had died after a few seconds? Or would he have held out for a time?

 

As you said yourself, compared to Sidious every other Jedi is but a Padawan. But...I could see him holding a little longer than Fisto at least provided Sidious wouldn't attack him first but then that isn't saying much lol.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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If your going to ignore the evidence in front of you then fine, but the fact remains that Sidious is perfectly capable of taking Windu and another highly skilled Jedi on simultaneously with little difficulty. Windu did not dodge or retreat, he was as stuck in that brief duel as Fisto was but he simply wasn't fast enough to fend off Sidious and defend Fisto at the same time. Vaapad only afforded him the ability to hold off Sidious alone.

Palpatine was only able to do it for a short moment, and please look at the video, he did move away, gave Palpatine the time and angle to directly face Fisto and kill him. What he should do is keep face Sidious and draw his focus.

 

Vaapad would work as long as he was the one who face Sidious.

 

Teamwork is all well and good, but when your teammates just can't keep up, it won't get you anywhere.

They don't have to, as long as Mace Windu could do his job well. It's just like let your DPS face the boss' damage directly, does that mean they are useless?

 

And simply put Sidious was leagues ahead of any Jedi on the Council bar Yoda and Windu in terms of power and skill. Windu would have his hands full defending a bunch of novices (in comparison with Sidious) who would quickly fall as soon as Sidious applied some pressure. Not even that, Fisto was taking down with an off hand flourish as Sidious moved to intercept Windu's attack. There is nothing Windu could have done to prevent that, he can't be everywhere at once.

 

It does not mean he could take Windu+3 masters together if they could form a good group.

 

It's not attack, Windu should keep face Sidious, move when Sidious move. force him to focus on him and let others attack.

 

As for your final paragraph, that's just silly. You can't just say "oh well Windu should have done this" - he didn't, and know matter who those Jedi where, he wouldn't have in any situation. No amount of teamwork or tactics could have prepared him for the sheer speed and efficiency of Sidious attack. Even if Windu had attempted to defend them he would have been to late. He killed them in seconds, because they were all (Windu included) just too slow.

 

That's not true, read the novel, even Kolar was able to make a move when Tiin was killed.

 

Did you even read the novel? Palpatine even had to use his words to distract Saesee Tiin so he could kill him with surprise, then Agen Kolar was able to make a sway before he got killed, Mace Windu simply did nothing, even though Sidious had move a much longer distance to kill these two.

 

He could move as fast as Sidious, as he did later in the novel and the movie. You are keep ignoring this: Windu was able to move as fast as Sidious, and he should be prepared when Sidious made his move.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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Well I don't expect that Kenobi would have one, but would he had died after a few seconds? Or would he have held out for a time?

 

Am I the only one thinking Kenobi would have survived, and Mace's rushing was the defeat of the order?

If Mace had waited and called them back immediately (hell, call all jedi back or tell them to be prepared, just in case) they would have likely managed to take Sidious down, consequently before Order 66 was launched.

 

I think Kenobi would survive for 2 reasons,

1) no Lightsaber skill, no matter how vast, can hold off Windu and Yoda, whilst attempting to kill the greatest Soresu master of all time

2) Yoda could easily protect his allies from Force lightning, whilst managing to cost sidious a bit of energy a lot the way....

 

 

I think Kenobi would survive, merely because Yoda and Windu are just too good to ignore, think of it like the Gungans taking grevious down. He could have slaughtered them all, but with one or two of them holding his attention, and getting hit every time he tried to strike one down, he just couldn't do it.

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Am I the only one thinking Kenobi would have survived, and Mace's rushing was the defeat of the order?

If Mace had waited and called them back immediately (hell, call all jedi back or tell them to be prepared, just in case) they would have likely managed to take Sidious down, consequently before Order 66 was launched.

 

I think Kenobi would survive for 2 reasons,

1) no Lightsaber skill, no matter how vast, can hold off Windu and Yoda, whilst attempting to kill the greatest Soresu master of all time

2) Yoda could easily protect his allies from Force lightning, whilst managing to cost sidious a bit of energy a lot the way....

 

 

I think Kenobi would survive, merely because Yoda and Windu are just too good to ignore, think of it like the Gungans taking grevious down. He could have slaughtered them all, but with one or two of them holding his attention, and getting hit every time he tried to strike one down, he just couldn't do it.

 

Sidious would not have let Anakin know his identity, if Yoda was there.

 

Shaak Tii would be a good choice at that time because of her Makashi.

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The video showed clearly, Windu simply did nothing when Sidious

 

Ignite his Lightsaber, made a big Force Jump, focus strength to stab Agen Kolar, kill Tiin.

 

Then he tried to move behind Sidious to attack him from behind and let Fisto face Sidious, which resulted Fisto's death.

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The video showed clearly, Windu simply did nothing when Sidious

 

Ignite his Lightsaber, made a big Force Jump, focus strength to stab Agen Kolar, kill Tiin.

 

Then he tried to move behind Sidious to attack him from behind and let Fisto face Sidious, which resulted Fisto's death.

 

Windu did not 'do nothing.' Every source clearly states that Sidious cut Tiin and Kolar down before Windu could even react.

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