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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Ansultares's Avatar


Ansultares
09.26.2017 , 12:30 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
This spec is unnatural and ruins pvp... Very overpowered thing
I don't see how.
Snare

bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
09.26.2017 , 01:17 PM | #122
I just want to know who had the stupid idea to introduce a new tier of gear then spend months of developer resources nerfing classes to compensate for that gear increase.

I don't care about the nerf(s) per se but I think I'll stop playing/paying until they prove they have an even small handle on overall game design.

Decidion's Avatar


Decidion
09.26.2017 , 01:19 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by bdatt View Post
I just want to know who had the stupid idea to introduce a new tier of gear then spend months of developer resources nerfing classes to compensate for that gear increase.

I don't care about the nerf(s) per se but I think I'll stop playing/paying until they prove they have an even small handle on overall game design.
The thing is, there are still plenty of other classes parsing what deception currently does right now (in the same dps target bracket), but we've heard about no adjustments for them. Take a look at PowerTech AP and Mara Carnage parses...

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.26.2017 , 02:16 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Very happy to see these changes, Deception have been heavily overperforming for a long time.
merc and sniper haven't

Elusive_Thing's Avatar


Elusive_Thing
09.26.2017 , 05:13 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
But it does have perma-stealth, sleep without a cd and can stealth out of combat. Those are things that are very powerful in PvP particularly. I just don't get why people ignore these abilities as if they do nothing.
Sap that doesn't work in combat, perma stealth during which they can't attack and stealth out of combat that will be negated (broken or you will be pulled to combat) by any AoE. Those are nice tools, no denying that, but you seem to heavily overestimate them. Even with them Deception is clearly behind Marauders.

thunder_saber's Avatar


thunder_saber
09.26.2017 , 06:10 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
No, don't say this because it isn't true.
Deception does have the disadvantage of light armor, but it still have some defensives, which isn't the case for Powertech. Yeah, I completely agree that defensive that last only three seconds are kinda useless in long pvp match, but they exist and can help you deliver one or two hits before going down. ^^
I did not say that sins did not have defensive . I said that the defensive in comparison to other class was less . At present moment yeah its do able due to the high burst that sins currently have but once it reduces it will change the whole scenario to a different direction .

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
But it does have perma-stealth, sleep without a cd and can stealth out of combat. Those are things that are very powerful in PvP particularly. I just don't get why people ignore these abilities as if they do nothing.
The difference :

Sin
force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected
Shroud : 1min
deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked


Mara :

Cloak of pain :1m
Predation: 1.5s , instant if uitilie is selected
force camo : 45s
unding rage : 1.5m
Obfuscate:1m
Saber ward:3m , also utility which heals u for evey 5% or so of u health .

Any good Mara would survive against a sin and in the end mara would mostly win .
The Deathgiver Legacy
<Harbinger >
: Sabertwister GrimtimeShadowsiner
GunsinnerThunderbroDeathmando

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
09.26.2017 , 07:09 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by thunder_saber View Post
The difference :

Sin
force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected
Shroud : 1min
deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked


Mara :

Cloak of pain :1m
Predation: 1.5s , instant if uitilie is selected
force camo : 45s
unding rage : 1.5m
Obfuscate:1m
Saber ward:3m , also utility which heals u for evey 5% or so of u health .

Any good Mara would survive against a sin and in the end mara would mostly win .
A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.
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thunder_saber's Avatar


thunder_saber
09.26.2017 , 07:17 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.
Agreed
The Deathgiver Legacy
<Harbinger >
: Sabertwister GrimtimeShadowsiner
GunsinnerThunderbroDeathmando

invertioN's Avatar


invertioN
09.27.2017 , 02:47 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.
If you cloak to reset recklesness in ranked it's are recipe to get killed, except in rare occasions which don't need to be discussed (game winning kill for example)

Quote: Originally Posted by thunder_saber View Post
Sin
force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected
Shroud : 1min
deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked
.
Hello? Where is force speed? Force speed with utility is a dcd in 5.x
Adixia, Red Eclipse EU

PerKIA's Avatar


PerKIA
09.27.2017 , 04:52 AM | #130
Quote:
In my opinion, some nerf can be seen as a bit harsh, and I understand that you are emotionally invested in this class and thus unable to see the bigger picture, but these class changes do make sense based on their target DPS and category strategy.
Please, explain this "Bigger Picture" to me, honestly, I want to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Very happy to see these changes, Deception have been heavily overperforming for a long time.
how can Deception be "overperforming" and Carnage not?
As it stands now, Carnage and Deception is pretty much on equal foottng dps wise, with a slight advantage for
Carnage. Both are melee, both are burst


Furthermoore...

where in this "big picture" dose tha fact that Virulence are outperfoming MAdness by at least 400dps, were dose that fit in?

This "target dps balancing" that is now taking place makes absolut no sense whatsoever. They say one thing, then do the opposite. the different classes within the same cataogories are not in par with each other.

Quote:
In my mind, and I think most Nightmare players would agree, all classes were overperforming heavily and often not excelling at what they were supposed to be the best at, such as MM not having the best burst (with the Viru nerf this is now adjusted), Carnage having the best sustain (Annihilation is now superior), Arsenal being the best at both bursts and sustain (now only good burst) and Sorcerer being able to solo heal several Nightmare fights.
If BW is balancing the classes after what Nim Raiders preform, making the game challenging for them, then this game is truly dead.

I dont know how large the NiM raiding community is, my guess is that its no bigger than 5-10% of the player base. Thats not were the revenues are coming from. The vast majority of the revenues are coming from the other players, the one BW, at moment with these "Target dps balancing" is *###* over.