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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.25.2017 , 07:53 PM | #71
Gonna hold off on overreacting like many if my peers. I know this is a series of game-wide nerfs that needed to be made to bring all classes into the same tier of productivity so there is no reason to take one class over another, a problem the game has been plagued with for years. Once all the changes are made, lets take a moment to see the overall impact of the game.

Zez-Kai-Ell's Avatar


Zez-Kai-Ell
09.25.2017 , 08:42 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Very happy to see these changes, Deception have been heavily overperforming for a long time.
well i wonder wich class isn't over performing? Singer right riku?

Zez-Kai-Ell's Avatar


Zez-Kai-Ell
09.25.2017 , 08:52 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Decidion View Post
You are absolutely delusional. I can still do about the same DPS on an ops dummy with a Concealment Operative (after the recent nerf) as with a Deception Assassin. They were NOT heavily overperforming, ever since they fixed the duplicate stance bug.
hes happy too see all classes/disciplines nerfed cause he play sniper so he can out dps everyone and thinking hes good cause of it its rikacha

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
09.25.2017 , 09:02 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Decidion View Post
You are absolutely delusional. I can still do about the same DPS on an ops dummy with a Concealment Operative (after the recent nerf) as with a Deception Assassin. They were NOT heavily overperforming, ever since they fixed the duplicate stance bug.
Maybe there are some shortcomings in your rotation that you should adjust, it's naturally difficult to play one class to its full potential, very few players can do multiple classes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zez-Kai-Ell View Post
well i wonder wich class isn't over performing? Singer right riku?
In my mind, and I think most Nightmare players would agree, all classes were overperforming heavily and often not excelling at what they were supposed to be the best at, such as MM not having the best burst (with the Viru nerf this is now adjusted), Carnage having the best sustain (Annihilation is now superior), Arsenal being the best at both bursts and sustain (now only good burst) and Sorcerer being able to solo heal several Nightmare fights.

In my opinion, some nerf can be seen as a bit harsh, and I understand that you are emotionally invested in this class and thus unable to see the bigger picture, but these class changes do make sense based on their target DPS and category strategy. Now that does not mean this is the approach I would prefer, I would rather see an HP/Damage on bosses so the result would be the same but players would see the same numbers (people focus a lot on numbers and often forget the bigger picture).

Now, I realize most of these comments are wasted on a tunnel vision focused community such as the Assassin/Shadow, but I am sure that following these readjustments and as you realize that doing 9.3k instead of 9.8k still is more than enough for all content, you will know that I was right.

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.25.2017 , 09:18 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Maybe there are some shortcomings in your rotation that you should adjust, it's naturally difficult to play one class to its full potential, very few players can do multiple classes.



In my mind, and I think most Nightmare players would agree, all classes were overperforming heavily and often not excelling at what they were supposed to be the best at, such as MM not having the best burst (with the Viru nerf this is now adjusted), Carnage having the best sustain (Annihilation is now superior), Arsenal being the best at both bursts and sustain (now only good burst) and Sorcerer being able to solo heal several Nightmare fights.

In my opinion, some nerf can be seen as a bit harsh, and I understand that you are emotionally invested in this class and thus unable to see the bigger picture, but these class changes do make sense based on their target DPS and category strategy. Now that does not mean this is the approach I would prefer, I would rather see an HP/Damage on bosses so the result would be the same but players would see the same numbers (people focus a lot on numbers and often forget the bigger picture).

Now, I realize most of these comments are wasted on a tunnel vision focused community such as the Assassin/Shadow, but I am sure that following these readjustments and as you realize that doing 9.3k instead of 9.8k still is more than enough for all content, you will know that I was right.
It's not about the nerf as per say it's about how they achieve it.
Most sane players want new content first of all because that is what they're paying for and I honestly don't blame them. Some also wonder why they're doing these nerfs and how it has come to this?

So I'll just drop this here...

Classes are coming out untested and are "over performing ".
This leads to nerfing, which ends up with your customers being unhappy.
Instead you should be aiming towards classes "under performing" and then figure out how you need to buff them which makes the customers happy!
Two different approaches to the same problem but how you achieve it makes a world of difference.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
09.25.2017 , 09:26 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
It's not about the nerf as per say it's about how they achieve it thus why most sane players want new content because first of all that is what they're paying for and I honestly don't blame also wonder why they're doing these nerfs and how it has come to this?

So I'll just drop this here...

Classes are coming out untested and are "over performing ".
This leads to nerfing, which ends up with your customers being unhappy.
Instead you should be aiming towards classes "under performing" and then figure out how you need to buff them which makes the customers happy!
Two different approaches to the same problem but how you achieve it makes a world of difference.
Again, I agree with using a different approach, there are other ways, possibly a bit complex but still, that would have ensured we had the same result with more difficult content but while at the same time ensuring players are seeing the same numbers. Buffing the underperforming classes and at the same time buffing bosses HP; the damage deal and other aspects of content even more.

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.25.2017 , 09:38 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Again, I agree with using a different approach, there are other ways, possibly a bit complex but still, that would have ensured we had the same result with more difficult content but while at the same time ensuring players are seeing the same numbers. Buffing the underperforming classes and at the same time buffing bosses HP; the damage deal and other aspects of content even more.
It's not only the different approach it's the fact people are paying for new content not stretched out which has been rinsed and repeated.
Personally I haven't had a problem with any new content be it story or group content. (Although I've never been a fan of the story since the class stories out shines any content afterwards with exception to Oricon).

With that being said I believe they've been balancing classes wrong this whole time and I understand that it is hard but they're trying to hard to achieve it without thinking.

The only real balance that matters is PvP with PvE content you can attack that from a different angle be it bolster/syncing.

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.25.2017 , 09:42 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
It's not about the nerf as per say it's about how they achieve it.
Most sane players want new content first of all because that is what they're paying for and I honestly don't blame them. Some also wonder why they're doing these nerfs and how it has come to this?

So I'll just drop this here...

Classes are coming out untested and are "over performing ".
This leads to nerfing, which ends up with your customers being unhappy.
Instead you should be aiming towards classes "under performing" and then figure out how you need to buff them which makes the customers happy!
Two different approaches to the same problem but how you achieve it makes a world of difference.
I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.25.2017 , 09:53 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.
Sorry but I disagree with that.

it is that with all changes leads to testing.
Testing causes time constraints.

Every time we receive something new even when the game came out and was in Beta I did and countless others begged Bioware not to release it if was released with what patch 1.2 (i think it was a long time ago) it would have been fine.

But this seems to always happen and 9/10 times they ignore the advice.

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.25.2017 , 09:58 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
Sorry but I disagree with that.

it is that with all changes leads to testing.
Testing causes time constraints.

Every time we receive something new even when the game came out and was in Beta I did and countless others begged Bioware not to release it if was released with what patch 1.2 (i think it was a long time ago) it would have been fine.

But this seems to always happen and 9/10 times they ignore the advice.
Beta testers tend to overreact and ask for a complete overhaul of system/balance/content changes they have issues with. Ive seen it firsthand in multiple games. Instead, beta testers/test servwr participants need to make small tweak suggestions, knowing that devs arent going to completely scrap the entire plan they spent months and months preparing.