Hello Everyone,

 

I have been trying to think of ideas for group content that would be popular. Some MMO players avoid group content, but I think a lot of what they are avoiding can be solved. For instance, many players simply do not like being "forced" into the trinity roles--tank, healer, dps. They don't want to heal and they don't want to "wait forever", which is often what you have to do as dps.

 

So here is an idea I came up with. I am wondering what people think of it. I fleshed the idea out as much as possible to encourage discussion, so people could say more than "yes" or "no".

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The survivor series could be played solo (with companion) once every 3 days. Duo (each bring one companion) every 2 days. And as a four-person group (no companions) every day.

 

Basically, you go to a planet (the planets could rotate) where whoever the bad guys are are invading. You go into an instance. You face successive waves of enemies. At each stage, the enemies become more numerous and more difficult.

 

In early stages the difficulty would increase rapidly, so that players would quickly get to the stages that really test their abilities. But the earliest stages would not be too hard, so that everyone can participate at least a little bit.

 

You could have ranking boards like in pvp, where it shows which sages, which mercs, etc., had made it the farthest in Survivor series. The most interesting boards would show which 4 person groups had done the best. In cases of ties the rankings could be determined by how fast people had progressed through the final challenge that they beat.

 

Of course, everyone eventually dies in Survivor series, that's the point. The mode is infinite. So when your team finally gets destroyed, you get a cut scene where your LI (or highest affection companion) comes in and rescues you at the last minute. Just to keep the story aspect alive.

 

I think this could be a cool way to encourage grouping, because the "trinity" roles aren't absolutely required. Of course, I would assume that the best groups would have a healer and tank, but who knows. I also think it's cool because everyone could participate and get some rewards (you'd get rewards based on how far you made it) but the best players would always have a new challenge to look forward to.

 

Also, and here I need to admit I am not a programmer AT ALL--but what I've heard on the forums is that what makes content creation hard is making new mechanics. With a survivor series, you don't have to make new mechanics.

 

The "waves" of enemies could include some randomization. They could include, at different waves, boss type enemies plus lots of little enemies. Or they could include any combination of enemies, really.

 

What do people think? Would you play a survivor series? Would your guild be interested enough to try to get teams that could top the rankings?

At present time even though I don't group myself I don't see BW having anything to lose by giving your idea a try as in game terms. Guess it comes down to what finances BW have to put into anything new. The idea itself seem Ok. But as I said I don't group and this would not get me too. So group players are in a better position to say if its something they would like to see happen. Edited September 22, 2016 by DreadtechSavant

It's a fun idea but it only solves the trinity-dread problem, which tactical FP's do (in theory). You'd still have alot of the other group problems: salty players, rage quitters, terribads, single-ability-spammers, AoE spammers, people who don't listen, people who are too bossy, balance issues.... basically whatever your pet peeve is, it'll probably still be there.

 

Also I can totally see how the trinity would be effective against waves of enemies.

Well if you dont want all that then you can only play KOTFE with your loyal companion

These are like features of an MMO .

It's a fun idea but it only solves the trinity-dread problem, which tactical FP's do (in theory). You'd still have alot of the other group problems: salty players, rage quitters, terribads, single-ability-spammers, AoE spammers, people who don't listen, people who are too bossy, balance issues.... basically whatever your pet peeve is, it'll probably still be there.

 

Also I can totally see how the trinity would be effective against waves of enemies.

 

Yeah, I like the idea, but it's certainly not "no trinity necessary"

I like this idea! I would participate.

 

However as it has been pointed out, the trinity is very much still alive with this system. It might be nice if the mobs differ depending on the party that is send in (role-wise). So there would also be a separate ladder for all DPS teams for instance.

 

It would probably also be useful to implement a SM and HM option. Maybe even NM. Not because people will beat it, but because of the HUGE skill/gear differences that are also very noticable in FPs/OPs. So SM starts easy and could built up slowly. While HM starts of way more difficult so experienced players dont have to grind for a long time before finally getting a challenge. People are impatient after all.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Gokkus

I like this idea! I would participate.

 

However as it has been pointed out, the trinity is very much still alive with this system. It might be nice if the mobs differ depending on the party that is send in (role-wise). So there would also be a separate ladder for all DPS teams for instance.

 

It would probably also be useful to implement a SM and HM option. Maybe even NM. Not because people will beat it, but because of the HUGE skill/gear differences that are also very noticable in FPs/OPs. So SM starts easy and could built up slowly. While HM starts of way more difficult so experienced players dont have to grind for a long time before finally getting a challenge. People are impatient after all.

 

I think trinity is needed in a properly balanced MMO, everyone shouldn't be able to fo everything.

The waves recognizing the trinity in a group could be a way to help those who don't like it, but I think the system should punish if they don't have trinity: maybe the first waves could react to group composition, but latter waves would ignore them.

There is no need for SM, HM and NiM, since this mode is infinite. The point is that it can't be finished. I would rather name waves, like 1-5 SM, 6-10 HM and 11+ NiM (this is a terrible naming system, just showing what I'm talking about). The competition would be about who can reach the highest wave possible.

 

I think this mode would fit greatly for SWTOR. Defending strategic points from waves of reps, imps, rakghouls, nightsister zombies, droid armies, the possibilities are endless.

Meh...I'm 100% in favor of ANY new group activity, but things like this just aren't fun to me. There's no "win", it's just survive as long as you can, which I dislike...there's no goal because the outcome is unavoidable (death).

You all are right. People who already enjoy group content might be interested in doing it in groups, and those who don't enjoy group content won't do it in groups. They'll just solo it. So it's probably a good idea on its own, but it doesn't really address the issue I was hoping it would address.

 

Oh well. Back to the drawing board lol.

 

Maybe I should focus on ideas to make the tactical->HM flashpoint continuum work better.

With a survivor series, you don't have to make new mechanics.

 

The "waves" of enemies could include some randomization. They could include, at different waves, boss type enemies plus lots of little enemies. Or they could include any combination of enemies, really.

 

What do people think? Would you play a survivor series? Would your guild be interested enough to try to get teams that could top the rankings?

 

They essentially tried this in part of the Kaon flashpoint, iirc it didn't go down very well due to the mechanics they used (constant stun lock etc). The trinity being the most favoured option could be completely negated by having certain enemies that are immune to taunts, that mechanic is already available in multiple forms in the game.

 

It really would depend on how it was implemented, as well as the rewards available.

You all are right. People who already enjoy group content might be interested in doing it in groups, and those who don't enjoy group content won't do it in groups. They'll just solo it. So it's probably a good idea on its own, but it doesn't really address the issue I was hoping it would address.

 

Oh well. Back to the drawing board lol.

 

Maybe I should focus on ideas to make the tactical->HM flashpoint continuum work better.

It's not a bad idea of itself.

I've suggested similar things on the Suggestion forum (it's a while back so I'm not sure if I can find the thread)

 

Depending on the resources thrown at it you could have trinity based content, you could also have role specific content for solo or groups.

 

Tanks could have to draw spawning mobs into kill zones.

Healers could have to keep friendly soldiers standing.

DPS could get to blitz everything.

 

The group focused content would be self correcting and may highlight discipline balance.

 

BUT, the real thing that makes players group together is the reward. I've never seen so many 4 man groups forming on fleet to run heroics that are already easy to solo just to scoop up all those extra credits from the bonus section

Meh...I'm 100% in favor of ANY new group activity, but things like this just aren't fun to me. There's no "win", it's just survive as long as you can, which I dislike...there's no goal because the outcome is unavoidable (death).

Some of that depends on the narrative set up.

Pretty much all of the content is perceived to be kill or be killed.

If you get a same faction warzone it is a 'Training' mission.

Similarly you could frame the wave mechanic as a training scenario

Really though it would be the rewards that would make or break it. I wonder if bragging rights would be enough... Guild X made it to 129th wave can we do better?

Some of that depends on the narrative set up.

Pretty much all of the content is perceived to be kill or be killed.

If you get a same faction warzone it is a 'Training' mission.

Similarly you could frame the wave mechanic as a training scenario

Really though it would be the rewards that would make or break it. I wonder if bragging rights would be enough... Guild X made it to 129th wave can we do better?

I don't think bragging rights would be...not enough that more than a handful of players would participate (see Ranked PvP)...most of us just aren't that overly competitive, we're casual players who just want stuff to do.

I don't think bragging rights would be...not enough that more than a handful of players would participate (see Ranked PvP)...most of us just aren't that overly competitive, we're casual players who just want stuff to do.

 

Is it that much different than the prospect of timed clearance of content?

 

I'm not sure I'd play it that often, I'm struggling to escape the pull of credit earning

 

However it would be interesting to see how well the same disciplines can cope against the incremental improvement of a mob. Let's say instead of just getting more and more health everywave the mob gets an Alacrity buff, or a critical buff. Get far enough along and they get a new ability you have to watch out for.

 

The biggest concern would be having players go through all the waves again to start progressing. Used to dabble with a wave mechanic style group content with WH40k Dawn of War 2. It was fun but running those first dozen levels got tedious fast.

However it would be interesting to see how well the same disciplines can cope against the incremental improvement of a mob. Let's say instead of just getting more and more health everywave the mob gets an Alacrity buff, or a critical buff. Get far enough along and they get a new ability you have to watch out for.

 

The biggest concern would be having players go through all the waves again to start progressing. Used to dabble with a wave mechanic style group content with WH40k Dawn of War 2. It was fun but running those first dozen levels got tedious fast.

 

Now that's another good point. In order for this to be fun, there would need to be some mechanic where once you had progressed far enough in previous tries, you could just start at, say, wave 10 or whatever.

 

I have been playing Injustice on mobile and the more I think about this, the more I think it could be a really cool game mode in SWTOR too--I mean, there's a reason so many mobile games have some version of a Survivor series. It appeals to a game play type whose strongest motivation is overcoming challenges, testing limits, etc.

 

But my original hope was to come up with a game play type that would not require enormous developer resources but would encourage more grouping. And this idea isn't it lol.

But my original hope was to come up with a game play type that would not require enormous developer resources but would encourage more grouping. And this idea isn't it lol.

It's not the game mechanic that encourages grouping but the reward.

 

If you put group content in the game that rewarded cartel coins there would be droves of players participating.

If raiders enjoy running the hard content so much why do they tend to quit once they've farmed out all the BiS items they need

 

You can get people to play anything if you skew the rewards to favour that content.

 

Case in point, I'm not a fan of PvP, but I'll turn up and run a couple (rarely one) warzones to get the Daily reward and the massive amount of xp attached to it, sometimes I'll even get the weekly in one week

It's not the game mechanic that encourages grouping but the reward.

 

This is pretty accurate. Although I just can't stomach too many Heroic runs....

It's not the game mechanic that encourages grouping but the reward.

 

 

It's not about encouraging people to group, it's about providing content for people who like to group.