I have six pieces of 224 gear, the rest being optimized 220. Full 208 augments. My mainhand is 224. I mostly hover around 60th to 80th percentile on StarParse's rankings, but I feel with this gear I should be closer to the top. Do you have any tips for what I could do to improve my DPS? Here's a recent parse from Eternity Vailt and the first two bosses of Terror from Beyond, both hard modes:

http://parsely.io/parser/view/132430

This was a particularly good run of EV; I got to the top 5% on XRR3 and Gharj, so maybe there's hope for me yet. The dread guards fight on the other hand is rather low, though I don't remember how much I got abused by Ciphas and Kel'Sara. It's entirely possible that I have my rotation down but need to learn how to keep up DPS on some bosses.

I can do a dummy parse tonight if that helps.

Hello,

A dummy parse would probably be a good place to start (1,5 mil). Post one and your stats and we can determine if there are any problems there. If not then i or others can maybe give more specific tips for various bossfights etc.

Here's the dummy parse. The DPS came out at 5330, which seems a bit low.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/132670

Note that I don't use a single fixed rotation but rather a priority based system. I have some short sequences that I tend to execute atomically (in particular vital shot -> shrap bomb -> hemorrhaging blast (if available) -> wounding shots).

I got some new gear in tonight's ops, so I now have eight 224 pieces. My stats (with stim and buffs):

Mastery 5623

Power 3455

Critical 738 (33.53% chance / 62.46% damage)

Alacrity 328 (3.84%)

Accuracy 737 (110.57%)

Some observations / questions:

I ran a bit too low on energy twice but was able to remedy it with Cool Head.

The amount of alacrity is based on theorycrafting. However, it does not take into account extra delays caused by network latency nor additional crit chance from the discipline tree. I wonder if it would be better to replace it with more crit? Increased crit would also help with energy management a bit because of the Fighting Spirit passive ability.

Since my offhand blaster gets an accuracy penalty and thus there are some misses from abilities that use both blasters, would I benefit from a larger amount of accuracy? On the other hand the damage from the offhand blaster is rather low as well.

If Vital Shot and Shrap Bomb are about to end and Wounding Shots is about to come off cooldown, is it better to execute Wounding Shots or refresh the DoTs first? (Wounding shots would get the bonus damage from DoTs because of Cheap Shots passive ability.)

Finally, if there's something to improve, please try to explain why it's wrong. I like to know why I'm doing things rather than just blindly following instructions.

I'll reply more in depth about your rotation and such tmw but for now about your gear/stats:

First of all, waaay too much power. It just doesn't give you the same benefits as tertiary stats do in this gear tier.

Crit and alac will help you soo much more.

Secondly your accuracy is needlessly high. Higher then 110% accuracy gives you exactly 0 benefits, even with your offhand. Those misses are unavoidable. Ideally in 224 gear your accuracy is either 679 (1 224 enhancement+7 augs) or 701 (2 224 enhancements + 5 augs).

The choice between those are personal preferences.

About crit: since it combines crit and surge now in 4.0 it became a much more important stat. Even if you don't blindly believe the theorycrafting, it bears out in practice: higher crit values will benefit your dps more then power at the current levels of gear. If you want the why of that, i suggest reading bants post again. But trust me, i've done extensive testing on various stat combination and the fact that you'll crit more and heavier + the easier energy management makes a huge difference. I'd suggest going with atleast 1100 crit.

Alacrity wise, it's important to remember that it's one of the only stats that does not have diminishing returns. In 3.X you'd have to reach a certain lvl of mainstat and power before alacrity's benefits would outweigh those but again with the levels we have now, alacrity is king. While latency can indeed reduce the benefits of alacrity you should not replace alacrity with crit. It's the 550 power that you have extra that needs replacing as they are providing the least benefits of all your stats. Go for somewhere between 800-900 alacrity.

I'll adress your rotation questions tomorrow but it's very late here now and i don't have enough brainpower left to translate rep terms into imp.

Even if you would not change your rotation one bit, you'll see huge improvements altering your stats.

Personal preference: 679 accuracy-1140 (iirc) crit and around 950 alacrity.

Power augments and crystals are a waste.

Personal preference: 679 accuracy-1140 (iirc) crit and around 950 alacrity.

Power augments and crystals are a waste.

I made some adjustments to my theorycrafting program (I had mistakenly removed the tradeoff between power and crit after 4.0 removed crit mods), and it appears you are right. The program's suggestion is rather more alacrity heavy than yours though. Dumping my current augments and putting in crit and alacrity instead would gain me a 2.5% increase in DPS. Likely a bit more when factoring in the extra crit chance for certain key abilities from the discipline tree and the improvement in energy management.

Too bad about all the materials and effort I put into power augments (and even a few mastery ones, which according to my program are even worse). I guess I'll recycle them to alts who don't have any augments yet.

Still, a 2.5% increase is only an additional 130 DPS or so, and if flyboy_jake is right I'm way more than that off my goal. So there may be something else as well.

However... If dirty fighting slingers should be close to 7k DPS, how come the top entry in StarParse's ratings for XRR3 is only 5800 DPS? That fight has very little to distract a gunslinger, and as an ops boss has the additional benefit of debuffs from other group members. And why is the top entry for Nefra, another tank-and-spank fight, over 500 DPS higher?

However... If dirty fighting slingers should be close to 7k DPS, how come the top entry in StarParse's ratings for XRR3 is only 5800 DPS? That fight has very little to distract a gunslinger, and as an ops boss has the additional benefit of debuffs from other group members. And why is the top entry for Nefra, another tank-and-spank fight, over 500 DPS higher?

I'll reply to this part first. Ofcourse i cant be sure about the answer to this one but several reason spring to mind. First, it's ev which is really easy which makes people try less hard. No good numbers are needed=no good numbers are brought. Secondly there is comparatively more movent on that boss then nefra. Nefra is the ultimate dummy boss fight, you have some circles to dodge and several moments where you have to run in to XRR3. Lastly Nefra has been know to be THE dummy boss for a good long while now making people more motivated there maybe.

Again, it's all speculation but it's all i could think of.

As for this line:" and as an ops boss has the additional benefit of debuffs from other group members"

That's exactly why you put the armor debuff module on your dummy as that simulates all other debuffs you'd get in a perfect raidgroup. If you have none done that on the parse above i suggest you retry it with the armor debuff module.

Rotation advice coming next post

For the record my average atm around 6,8 with 6,7 and 7K being outliers.

As for this line:" and as an ops boss has the additional benefit of debuffs from other group members"

That's exactly why you put the armor debuff module on your dummy as that simulates all other debuffs you'd get in a perfect raidgroup. If you have none done that on the parse above i suggest you retry it with the armor debuff module.

Well, that certainly might make some difference. I'll do another dummy parse, probably tonight.

Note that I don't use a single fixed rotation but rather a priority based system. I have some short sequences that I tend to execute atomically (in particular vital shot -> shrap bomb -> hemorrhaging blast (if available) -> wounding shots).

 

If Vital Shot and Shrap Bomb are about to end and Wounding Shots is about to come off cooldown, is it better to execute Wounding Shots or refresh the DoTs first? (Wounding shots would get the bonus damage from DoTs because of Cheap Shots passive ability.) .

Please use a fixed rotation for virulence. It's honestly not a spec that lends itself well to a priority system if you are going for a max dps rotation. Sure it pays to know which abilities take priority during ops where you can't always follow your rotation perfectly but with practice, you'd be suprised at how well you can execute the full rotation while doing mechanics.

To your 2nd question, you never use wounding shots without your dots up on the target cause without your dots, wounding shots does very very low damage. That said due to the passive you have (don't know gunslinger term for it) you have about 6 seconds when your dots are greyed out. When that happens they don't do any dmg of their own but the wounding shot still activates it. This is what makes the 3 wounding shots rotation possible. So assuming that's what you mean: you use wounding shots when dots are greyed out and after wounding shots you immediately reapply dots.

For the max dps rotation really try to follow this (is what i wrote for a guildie).

3 Wounding shots.

Dirty blast is used in the opener to proc the setbonus.

Opener:

Freigther Flyby -Dirty blast - Vital shot- Shrap bomb- hemm blast-wounding shot

3x Dirty blast-quickdraw+ illegal mods-wounding shots

Speed shot-quickdraw-hemm blast- wounding shot

vital shot-shrap bomb-dirty blast-quickdraw/filler-wounding shot

3x Dirty blast-quickdraw+ cool head-wounding shots

For your rotation you have 4 possible blocks: filler is takedown/roll/rapid shots (or lethal shot under 30%)

1. 3x dirty blast-filler-wounding shots

2. speed shot-filler-hemm blast- wounding shots

3. vital shot-shrap bomb-dirty blast-filler-wounding shots

4.vital shot-shrap bomb-filler-hemm blast-wounding shots

Block 1 you use when block 4 or block 2 came before it, and your dots are NOTabout to fall off

Block 2 you use when hemmo blast is available and your dots are NOT about to fall off.

Block 3. you use when block 2 came before it and your dots are about to fall off.

Block 4. You use when hemmo blast is available and your dots are about to fall off.

That's it really, so hope that helps.

Note that i prefer 3 dirty blast-filler-wounding shots over 2 dirty blast-filler-quickdraw-wounding shots because with the alacrity levels we have now, you can easily fit in 3 dirty blasts into your hemmo blast window, and that does more dmg then quickdraw.

Please use a fixed rotation for virulence. It's honestly not a spec that lends itself well to a priority system if you are going for a max dps rotation. Sure it pays to know which abilities take priority during ops where you can't always follow your rotation perfectly but with practice, you'd be suprised at how well you can execute the full rotation while doing mechanics.

When I said "I don't use a fixed rotation" I meant "I do not memorize a sequence of 30+ button presses and follow it like a machine". Firstly, I'm really bad at memorizing things. I work better by understanding the logic and constructing the desired outcome on the fly. And secondly, it breaks easily if something interrupts the flow, such as having to switch to an add. As I said, I have a few short sequences I use, kind of like what you described below. Perhaps we simply took "fixed rotation" to mean different things.

To your 2nd question, you never use wounding shots without your dots up on the target cause without your dots, wounding shots does very very low damage. That said due to the passive you have (don't know gunslinger term for it) you have about 6 seconds when your dots are greyed out. When that happens they don't do any dmg of their own but the wounding shot still activates it. This is what makes the 3 wounding shots rotation possible. So assuming that's what you mean: you use wounding shots when dots are greyed out and after wounding shots you immediately reapply dots.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for the answer.

Opener:

Freigther Flyby -Dirty blast - Vital shot- Shrap bomb- hemm blast-wounding shot

3x Dirty blast-quickdraw+ illegal mods-wounding shots

Speed shot-quickdraw-hemm blast- wounding shot

vital shot-shrap bomb-dirty blast-quickdraw/filler-wounding shot

3x Dirty blast-quickdraw+ cool head-wounding shots

You don't mention Smuggler's Luck. Is that implied or did you mean for it to not be used?

For your rotation you have 4 possible blocks: filler is takedown/roll/rapid shots (or lethal shot under 30%)

1. 3x dirty blast-filler-wounding shots

2. speed shot-filler-hemm blast- wounding shots

3. vital shot-shrap bomb-dirty blast-filler-wounding shots

4.vital shot-shrap bomb-filler-hemm blast-wounding shots

 

Block 1 you use when block 4 or block 2 came before it, and your dots are NOTabout to fall off

Block 2 you use when hemmo blast is available and your dots are NOT about to fall off.

Block 3. you use when block 2 came before it and your dots are about to fall off.

Block 4. You use when hemmo blast is available and your dots are about to fall off.

 

That's it really, so hope that helps.

This actually sounds fairly close to what I use. Some things are a bit different; in particular I don't currently use that many dirty blasts in a row because it depletes my energy too much. Perhaps the stat adjustments will help with that. I'll try to adjust and see if it results in any improvement in DPS.

A significant deviation arises when there are adds involved. If I notice that vital shot runs out on the boss and I know that a nearby add has it, I'll skip vital shot and throw a shrap bomb to have it propagate from the add to the boss (or vice versa if I'm concentrating on the add). This may also result in vital shot and shrap bomb running out at different times after the add is dead, so I usually continue to refresh them at different times.

Note that i prefer 3 dirty blast-filler-wounding shots over 2 dirty blast-filler-quickdraw-wounding shots because with the alacrity levels we have now, you can easily fit in 3 dirty blasts into your hemmo blast window, and that does more dmg then quickdraw.

I had forgotten about the Dirty Blast / Hemorrhaging Blast synergy. Thanks for reminding me.

Yeah forgot to mention smugglers luck. Try to precast it about 10 seconds before you start a fight/parse, then it refreshes earlier and the duration is long enough you'll get your 2 activations from it. other then that use on cooldown or save it for when a particular add comes or whatnot. Depends on the fight.

As for multi dotting, it is a great thing to do and increase your dps but i always try to prioritise my dots on the "main" target.

The extra crit will definately help with your energy so you should be able to pull of what i described there. Ofc it's not always always gonna work and sometimes you might need to use 2 fillers in a block. Such is life.

I promise you if you follow that "rotation" closely, with your adjusted stats, proper apm and the armor debuff module, your dps will increase a ton. After that it's just practice on real fights tho you can always ask specific questions about fights if you have any.

Virulence = Dirty Fighting ?

I never knew that. I don't play imperial classes.

Things got a bit busy last weekend, but today I finally found the time to do an updated parse. First, my new stats:

Mastery 5257

Power 2884

Critical 1122 (37.16% chance, 66.56% damage)

Alacrity 985 (10.11%)

Accuracy 737 (110.57%)

I know my accuracy is still too high, but I need to wait until I obtain a suitable token from ops before I can property fix that.

I first did another parse without the armor reduction module to get a feel of how much the gear and rotation changes improved my DPS. The result came out as 5638 DPS, significantly better than before:

http://parsely.io/parser/view/134858/64

Then I did another one with the armor reduction module. This time I did 6095 DPS:

http://parsely.io/parser/view/134858/65

It's not perfect yet, but I'm making progress. It will take a while to fully overwrite my old rotation instincts.

Well you seem to be getting there. Glad i could help. Noticed some rotation mistakes in your parse but as you said, you're still working out the kinks. Good luck gitting gud

Also small tip on the opener, after orbital strike wait 1 sec, then precast lethal shot: both hit at same time and your 2 piece setbonus procs so during your openerer you'll have adrenal+relic proc+setbonus.

Also small tip on the opener, after orbital strike wait 1 sec, then precast lethal shot: both hit at same time and your 2 piece setbonus procs so during your openerer you'll have adrenal+relic proc+setbonus.

That would be dirty shot for a gunslinger I guess? My ops group doesn't really coordinate at the level required to make use of a precisely timed opener in an ops setting, but I'll keep it in mind for dummy parses.

A couple of quick points...

a) the 2WS rotation is slightly lower dps (ever so slightly) than 3 but much easier to do, especially on a mechanics intensive fight.

b) in sub 30% the difference is even more negligible. In addition, it makes it easier to extend the tail end to a 3WS burn if the dummy/boss has enough HP left for a burn without having to redot.

c) you can mitigate RNG energy even more by going up to 1450 crit (with new relics), ~1K ala and no mastery augs (new sims). I Know Bant's calculations say some mastery augs are slightly better but, honestly the difference is minor and crits do help DF energy.

In conclusion, 3 Wounding Shots is probably mathematically better. In practice, the difference probably isn't that noticeable. Basically use whatever version you prefer

Reasoning:

Out of every 6 WS block, you gain around 2 Dirty Blasts and loose 4 dot ticks (during the last WS of a 3WS rotation you loose a tick of each dot).

Example: Taking Tyrien's parse here, we see that

Each LB ~7160 dmg.

Each CD ~1463 dmg

Each CG ~1546 dmg.

This means that overall (with pre and sub 30% phases), you loose around 1142 dmg/6WS (which is around 54s or 50 accounting for alacrity). This represents an average loss of around 21 DPS at a gain of 5 energy (Shrap bomb only costs 10). By any measure, those differences are negligible.

In addition, If you take into account the double proc chance of the dots (~15%), the damage loss (average again), drops down to around 239 dmg or 4.8 DPS

Exceptions:

When, during the opener, you have both energy CDs up, the double 3WS rotation results in better results due to how they line up.

Small sidenote... during the opener, swap the order of the second quickdraw and first speedshot to also get that quickdraw under the adrenal

~Lunagazer

A couple of quick replies:

A. While i haven't done the math and i'll trust you on what you're saying here, i've always found a bigger difference between 2 cull and 3 cull rotation. Even parsed it this morning and was seeing 200 dps difference or so easily. Might be i wasn't doing 2 cull properly tho (always been doing 3 cull). I do agree that it's a matter of personal preference and while 2 cull does seem objectively easier in ops, i've gotten so used to doing 3 cull everywhere it just works for me. Ofcourse depending on mechanics i switch rotation up mid fight occasionaly. I only started playing the week 3.0 came out and when i learned virulence i just went straight for 3 cull. So yeah even tho i still believe 3 cull/wounding shots rota has highest dps potential, you can't go wrong either way and it's up to the individual player.

B. I personally really don't like going 1450 crit. It hits the dimnishing returns too harshly imo and it straight up lowers your dps imo. It's definately not needed during raids for energy regen. I've had my best results so far in 4.1 using 1161 alacrity and 1171 crit, using 2 mastery augments.

All these things are not the ones that are gonna make or break your performance during fights. So whichever rotation you choose, perfect it, practice it and you'll do fine soon enough.

yea 1450 is a little of an extreme example but all in all, every little gear change is overshadowed by RNG sadly lol

Personally, I actually very similar results in both but i'm probably slightly better in 2 WS than 3

What would be a good example of a 2WS DF rotation? I haven't used DF since the set bonus was nerfed back in 3.0. I never could get the hang of the 3 WS rotation (my SS DPS was always greater).

It seems Sabo is very limited for fights with lots of movements, and I haven't been happy with SS DPS of late - so I would like to get an idea of the current 2WS rotation that won't totally destroy my energy regen.

- Vital shot

- Shrap bomb

- Hem. Blast

- wounding shots

- dirty blast

- Filler

- Speedshot

- wounding shots

- Filler

the filler are dirty blast (db) / Quickdraw (qd) / flurry bolts

Just start safe and use on every filler spot flurry bolts. Than start learning when you're able to put in db or qd. Normally you want to use db under hem shot and qd outside or when you need to move.

the filler are dirty blast (db) / Quickdraw (qd) / flurry bolts

 

Just start save and use on every filler spot flurry bolts. Than start learning when you're able to put in db or qd. Normally you want to use db under hem shot and qd outside or when you need to move.

I'm trying to get into Dirty Fighting (having been SS previously) & I'm confused, why would quickdraw be higher damage than dirty blast (outside of hem shot)? Wouldn't the target's armour/damage reduction/whatever reduce the weapon damage such that dirty shot's internal damage makes it do more damage?

Quickdraw do slightly more damage (50-100 dmg/activation) than dirty blast.

You got the chance of higher crit-luck with quickdraw.