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Mouseover Healing


Kallti's Avatar


Kallti
01.10.2012 , 08:02 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Jahoota View Post
I want my healing UI to be like old, turn based RPGs. I want to search through various menus to find the spell I want and then I want to scroll through a list of players until I reach whom I want to heal and then I would like for the healing to commence...eventually. Anyone who wants a more sophisticated way to heal is a bad player. Forsake your advanced healing methods and embrace the past! As a matter of fact, do away with absorbs, HoTs, and AoE heals; real men heal with the standard "heal".
Ah, so well put, hilarious that people are actually against mouseover targeting.

The User Interface, by its very definition, is supposed to help people translate their thoughts into in-game actions. You cannot call any UI function a 'crutch' because all it is doing is translating your thoughts into in-game actions and everybody has access to them so it's an even playing field. Any 'skill' that can be attributed to a player is measured by their ability to think and react under pressure in response to encounter mechanics, not by which group targeting method they use.

Fact: without mouseover targeting healing is clunky at best and generally a less enjoyable experience, it's no wonder there are healer shortages.

There is no rational reason to not have mouseover targeting, in fact, the game is annoying for most players without it, gaming is supposed to be fun and entertaining... not annoying.

NRieh's Avatar


NRieh
01.11.2012 , 01:23 AM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by Kallti View Post
Ah, so well put, hilarious that people are actually against mouseover targeting.

Fact: without mouseover targeting healing is clunky at best and generally a less enjoyable experience, it's no wonder there are healer shortages.

There is no rational reason to not have mouseover targeting, in fact, the game is annoying for most players without it, gaming is supposed to be fun and entertaining... not annoying.
Fact is not that people against it, its'just that some (not very little) players do not use and need it. I know many healers that never got away from "click-cast"(and I'm with them). It does not mean "we" are any better than "you", it just means we make it differently. If they make movers - nice, yet saying that all the healers demand it and that lack of healers is just because we dont have mousovers is not correct, imo.

Improvments in UI would still be welcome - like more clear and ajustable buffs\debuffs reading and HoT tracking. Those tiny squares in a LOWER part of the screen above bars are really bad. Or mb there is some way to show them somewhere esle and\or make bigger?

Jahoota's Avatar


Jahoota
01.11.2012 , 08:39 AM | #253
More facts: You cannot perform two moves faster than you can perform one move.


Quote: Originally Posted by Hermanlee View Post
Only if we can get a confirmation box before every cast.
The confirmation box can only be clicked after you enter your authenticator code. Better yet, I want a progress bar for the "uploading" of heals and the "downloading" of heals and I want my cursor to turn into an hourglass. I literally want to hear a 56k modem in the background when I cast a heal.

Next patch I want them to make it where I write each person a letter stating that I am healing them and if someone doesn't send me a thank you letter I will refuse to heal them...man, those stamps are going to get expensive. Then, my friends, we will be in healing nirvana.

I know a poster above me said the anti-mouse over people weren't saying they were better and that may be the case for that one poster but look at the 20 previous pages.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
01.11.2012 , 09:11 AM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by RiskyBiz View Post
True enough, I wouldn't object to an idea I had for WoW-- charge a ludicrous amount of money for a second spec only able to be activated in a Warfront. I like not having dual spec, though, because with dual spec you get 10 times the tanks and healer but 90% of them have no clue what they're doing.
Hyperbole is not helping your case here.

Making up numbers is not helpful.

PinnyFox's Avatar


PinnyFox
01.11.2012 , 09:20 AM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by Jahoota View Post
More facts: You cannot perform two moves faster than you can perform one move.
Which is why you preform the first action, targetting the player you want to heal, usually the tank, well in advance. While for some people this may feel like all you're doing is sitting around watching health bars, what exactly are you doing while you're waiting to click a player portrait to automatically heal them? .....Standing around watching health bars.

You can't really say people that got used to these mouseover healing mods (yes, mods. It's not a core feature of any MMO I've ever played, and it's not a core feature of WoW, either. It's a mod) Are more active, either. If they're specced for healing they aren't going to be running around doing damage then suddenly BAM, mouseover healing!

Back when I was still a healer (now I'm much too jaded to care :P) I anticipated who was going to be damaged and got ready to heal. The way I'm seeing it this mouseover healing business is more reactive while the way it is now is proactive, and honestly? I think it takes more work to sit there moving your mouse over the person to click them over and over and over than it is to just target them and press a button.


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not fighting against it. I'm just trying to point out that the "traditional healing takes more time and ends up with team wipes!" thing is completely false. Yes, it takes "more" time, which is why in your spare time when you aren't doing anything (which a lot of healers do, btw. They sit there doing nothing while waiting for HP to drop) target the person to get ready to heal. You're then in just as good of a position as people who use mouseover healing.

I guess you could argue in a heated battle where EVERYTHING is taking damage this is less optimal, but eh, if everyone in the party is taking so much damage at once that you can't take the extra half second to target them then something is wrong, IMO

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
01.11.2012 , 10:00 AM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by PinnyFox View Post
Which is why you preform the first action, targetting the player you want to heal, usually the tank, well in advance. While for some people this may feel like all you're doing is sitting around watching health bars, what exactly are you doing while you're waiting to click a player portrait to automatically heal them? .....Standing around watching health bars.
Mouseover healing is not "automatically" healing them. While I'm waiting on them to take damage, I'm doing DPS on the boss. When it comes time to heal them, I'm not scrambling around trying to remember what F key they are assigned to. I simply click one of my additional mouse buttons, which have my heal abilities mapped to them.

There is no magic involved. No automation. I didn't push a button and some amount of logic was automatically done in the background. I simply moved my mouse pointer over their nameplate and clicked the mouse button that is bound to that heal spell.

Quote:
You can't really say people that got used to these mouseover healing mods (yes, mods. It's not a core feature of any MMO I've ever played, and it's not a core feature of WoW, either. It's a mod) Are more active, either. If they're specced for healing they aren't going to be running around doing damage then suddenly BAM, mouseover healing!
Rift implemented mouseover targeting directly.

WoW added it in Wrath.

You no longer have to use mods to do it - though in WoW I did use Clique just because it was more convenient to setup than the default.

Quote:
Back when I was still a healer (now I'm much too jaded to care :P) I anticipated who was going to be damaged and got ready to heal. The way I'm seeing it this mouseover healing business is more reactive while the way it is now is proactive, and honestly? I think it takes more work to sit there moving your mouse over the person to click them over and over and over than it is to just target them and press a button.
Go heal a 16 man operation and then tell me it takes more time to target them with the mouse.

Quote:
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not fighting against it. I'm just trying to point out that the "traditional healing takes more time and ends up with team wipes!" thing is completely false. Yes, it takes "more" time, which is why in your spare time when you aren't doing anything (which a lot of healers do, btw. They sit there doing nothing while waiting for HP to drop) target the person to get ready to heal. You're then in just as good of a position as people who use mouseover healing.
In my spare time, I'm contributing to making the boss dead.

Quote:
I guess you could argue in a heated battle where EVERYTHING is taking damage this is less optimal, but eh, if everyone in the party is taking so much damage at once that you can't take the extra half second to target them then something is wrong, IMO
Depends on how much AoE damage is being tossed around. AoE pulse damage is a pain to heal in a raid without mouseover targeting.

RiskyBiz's Avatar


RiskyBiz
01.11.2012 , 10:23 AM | #257
The bottom line:

Mouse-over healing is faster than click-to-cast healing. It always has been, and always will be. Clicking is not more of a challenge, it doesn't add depth or complexity, and the fundamentals of healing are exactly the same-- all it is is slower and more awkward. If you feel like you're a pro because you don't use mouse-over healing, all you're doing is gimping your raid.

Mouse-over healing frees up loads of potential hot keys for other abilities, which in turn makes your CC's, interrupts, snares, etc more easily accessible again benefiting your raid group.

Mouse-over healing allows you to DPS more freely as a healer than you would otherwise. If a tank is taking significant damage, you're not going to deselect him/her to target the boss. It just won't happen.

If you disagree, you're either A: Playing Devil's Advocate just because or B: You've never used mouse-over healing before.
"Seaworth"
(Sawbones Healer)

The Westeros Legacy
[Malicious]

zYNNN's Avatar


zYNNN
01.11.2012 , 10:27 AM | #258
Some of the responses make me lol.

If they decide to add macros of any sort to the game it's only up to the player whether he or she wants to use them.

Also I can't think of any reason not to add Dual Specc. It makes life so much more efficient for a player being able to play with the right specc in PvP/PvE. Just ask

The key word is Efficient not easier or easy mode, like some people like to think.

Jahoota's Avatar


Jahoota
01.11.2012 , 10:39 AM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by PinnyFox View Post
Which is why you preform the first action, targetting the player you want to heal, usually the tank, well in advance. While for some people this may feel like all you're doing is sitting around watching health bars, what exactly are you doing while you're waiting to click a player portrait to automatically heal them? .....Standing around watching health bars.

You can't really say people that got used to these mouseover healing mods (yes, mods. It's not a core feature of any MMO I've ever played, and it's not a core feature of WoW, either. It's a mod) Are more active, either. If they're specced for healing they aren't going to be running around doing damage then suddenly BAM, mouseover healing
Back when I was still a healer (now I'm much too jaded to care :P) I anticipated who was going to be damaged and got ready to heal. The way I'm seeing it this mouseover healing business is more reactive while the way it is now is proactive, and honestly? I think it takes more work to sit there moving your mouse over the person to click them over and over and over than it is to just target them and press a button.


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not fighting against it. I'm just trying to point out that the "traditional healing takes more time and ends up with team wipes!" thing is completely false. Yes, it takes "more" time, which is why in your spare time when you aren't doing anything (which a lot of healers do, btw. They sit there doing nothing while waiting for HP to drop) target the person to get ready to heal. You're then in just as good of a position as people who use mouseover healing.

I guess you could argue in a heated battle where EVERYTHING is taking damage this is less optimal, but eh, if everyone in the party is taking so much damage at once that you can't take the extra half second to target them then something is wrong, IMO
I'm at work in my iPhone, so responding to this is difficult. Firstly, in intense fights your triage target will oftentimes change multiple times a second (I'm assuming. I'm not end game yet but I have TONS of MMo healing experience. FFXI, EQ2, AO, Lineage 2, WoW, DAoC and countless F2Ps) Who needs the heal the most (balanced against how important the player is) will change. It happens. That's what makes healing fun. It's the split second decisions that make it engaging and challenging. With UI improvements, this is able to be pushed farther. Games with with sophisticated UIs allow for a higher level of decision making.

I started WoW a few months after release and at that time they had mouseover macros. They had addons that were just easier to use versions of macro and they had macros you could program yourself. I'm not sure what you meant by core feature but mouseover macros were in there from the beginning or soon after. So you're wrong there.

Also, ABC. Always be casting. I don't know how you play but as a healer, I'm always doing something. I will be interrupting, CCing, watching for adds, DPSing (if resources allow). I like to be the best that I can be. Sitting around watching bars may get the job done but I want content that is based around everyone being all they an be not content stiffed by UI constraints.

EDIT: Holy crap perfect analogy. The healing system in this game is like trying to make posts on a iPhone. It takes triple the time to do something half as well. If you don't think so try posting on an iPhone. Ugh, it sucks!

Kallti's Avatar


Kallti
01.11.2012 , 03:41 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by NRieh View Post
Fact is not that people against it, its'just that some (not very little) players do not use and need it. I know many healers that never got away from "click-cast"(and I'm with them). It does not mean "we" are any better than "you", it just means we make it differently. If they make movers - nice, yet saying that all the healers demand it and that lack of healers is just because we dont have mousovers is not correct, imo.
If you're not against it then stop posting in this thread. There is no point to your post whatsoever. I didn't say all healers use it, I just happen to know a lot who aren't healing or find healing awkward/clunky because it's not implemented. As is pretty obvious by this thread.

Please give the people who want mouseover targeting the option, I don't know why people who don't care if it's added but won't use it feel the need to post in here at all... just to tell us you won't use it? Quite frankly nobody cares and it has nothing to do with the topic.

Bioware, please add mouseover targeting and you will make a lot of customers happy. Simple request.